• Register Today It's free! This box and some ads will disappear once registered!

2WD to 4WD conversion; 98 Sport

Lacky01

Well-Known Member
Joined
October 18, 2008
Messages
753
Reaction score
1
City, State
Eugene, Oregon
Year, Model & Trim Level
1998 Sport
I am officially starting my conversion over to 4WD. I located a complete front end out of a 98 four door. the yard wants $350 for the Differential, knuckles, CV's and Rotors. I'm gonna look around for a better deal, but I'm not sure I'm going to find one.

My concerns are these:

1) I have in my mind that I dont need new calipers/pads, but I need new Rotors. can someone confirm that my 2WD calipers work on the 4WD knuckles?

2) One of our vendors here has the new Hubs for a great price, so I'm going to get those. should I invest in new CV joints? Or should I run what I pull from the donor? the boots are intact, so they should be well lubed.

3) will any front driveshaft work? I can pull the transfer case as well, although I dont know what condition its in. It has an automatic transmission, so I'm on the lookout for a 4x4 transmission. If I pull the front driveshaft from the auto, will it work with the manual transmission? I understand I will need a rear driveshaft from a 4x4 Sport.

4) can I run any manual transmission from a 4.0 OHV explorer? or does it need to be from a second Gen?

those are all of my big concerns so far. I know I have the mounting brackets for the diff already in the truck, so thats not an issue. I will get new Ball joints, tie-rod ends, Rotors, and Hubs. Am I missing anything? I don't want to get all of the parts and realize I'm missing something important, or get parts that wont work together. My goal is to have this done before spring of 2011.

UPDATE!!

well spring '11 didn't work out, but that's ok :)

I currently have many parts needed for the tranny swap. that will happen in the next few weeks
2012-10-05_18-39-46_592_zps2035ec64.jpg


Running total for parts:
Transmission: $175
Transfer Case: $75
Rear Drive-shaft: $40
Slave Cylinder: $50
U-joints (pair): $26
Rear Main Seal: $20-$28 depending if I use the repair ring
Front Main Seal: lady at the parts counter didn't know what I meant by this. she sold me another rear main. :scratch:
Clutch kit: $312
Total as of now: $706

I was quoted about $540 for the shop to replace the rear main seal haha! I politely declined.
 


Join the Elite Explorers for $20 per year. Gets rid of the ads! New $5 per month "try out" option.

Explorer Forum has probably saved you that much already, and will continue to save you money as you learn how to diagnose fix problems yourself and learn which modifications work without having to experiment on your own. Elite Explorer members see no advertisements, no banner ads, no double underlined links, can add their own profile photo, upload photo attachments in all forums, and Media Gallery, create and save more private Conversations, and more. Join Today. Your support is greatly appreciated.




Lacky01

Well-Known Member
Joined
October 18, 2008
Messages
753
Reaction score
1
City, State
Eugene, Oregon
Year, Model & Trim Level
1998 Sport
I've been doing a lot of research, and it seems like I can use a M5OD-R1 out of a first Gen explorer. The concern I have is any wiring. I can't find any information suggesting whether or not the wiring changed from year to year. I don't even know what the PCM needs to know from the manual transmission. The speed sensor is in the axle and there's a sensor for the reverse lights. Am I missing something?
 




MrQ

Smokey the clutch is; Missed shift you did
Elite Explorer
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
October 5, 2008
Messages
3,221
Reaction score
383
Location
Humid, Damp, and Hot
City, State
Houston, TX
Year, Model & Trim Level
'98 EB, '93 Limited
Totally subscribed. I have always wondered what it would take to convert a 2nd gen.

1) By checking rockauto it seems that the 2wd calipers are interchangeable with the a 4wd knuckle. Mine were on my 1st gen.

2) CV joints are a different bugger than u-joints. As long as the boot is intact and they haven't been over strained they will last a good while longer than a u-joint. Unless you really want to spring for new ones, I don't believe it will be necessary.

3) The front drive shaft will be the same for all the 2nd gen bodies, unless you are running a 4406 manual tcase.

4) The M5OD-R1 4wd will work fine.

What are you running for a tcase? Also make sure that the front diff you pull has the same ratio as the rear.
 




Lacky01

Well-Known Member
Joined
October 18, 2008
Messages
753
Reaction score
1
City, State
Eugene, Oregon
Year, Model & Trim Level
1998 Sport
I'm totally clear on the matching gears, the front end I'm looking at is also 3:73.

I've found a 1354M from a first gen for $100 that I know I'm going to get. Does this limit me to using a first gen front axle or can I get a second gen one as well? I like the idea of full manual and I can get the system working and worry about shift linkage later. I figure I can do it in steps starting with the tranny and transfer case, then the front end, then finally shift linkage.
 




Lacky01

Well-Known Member
Joined
October 18, 2008
Messages
753
Reaction score
1
City, State
Eugene, Oregon
Year, Model & Trim Level
1998 Sport
looking at Autozones wiring diagrams for both Gen 1 and Gen 2 explorers, the only wiring that I see running to the transmission is for the reverse lamps. and even that isn't connected to the PCM. When it stops raining I'm going to take a gander under my truck and see if I'm correct. I'm also going to check that I have some sort of access panel on the floor for the TC shift linkage.

In Reference to Mr Q's How To, It seems as though 1st Gen driveshafts will be the way to go. I can get them for very cheap.

the hardest part will be finding a transmission. Where would I find just the tailshaft/housing to convert my tranmission? it may be cheaper to have a local shop do that than to buy a different one.
 




Lacky01

Well-Known Member
Joined
October 18, 2008
Messages
753
Reaction score
1
City, State
Eugene, Oregon
Year, Model & Trim Level
1998 Sport
the only manual shift transfer cases the place had were the 1350, I was told it was a 1354. they have an electric 1354, but I might as well go with what came in a 98 if I'm gonna go electric shift. was it the 4404? I need to do more research. If I did the 1350M, which driveshafts would I use? ones from a BII? I noticed the 1354 had the slip shaft in the rear, and the 1350 had the slip shaft for the front. I think both front driveshafts were positioned under the drivers side, and they both had a six bolt face which looked identical.

there were a couple hoses coming off of them and I have no clue what they were for. there was the VSS speed sensors, but there were also tubes sticking out close to the shift lever. they looked like vacuum lines or maybe hydraulic lines? :dunno:

sorry about all of the stupid questions, I'm learning as I go. I am literally brand new to 4WD drivetrains. I understand how it works and thats the extent of the knowledge library.

I am now on the hunt for a tailshaft housing/ extension.
 




MrQ

Smokey the clutch is; Missed shift you did
Elite Explorer
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
October 5, 2008
Messages
3,221
Reaction score
383
Location
Humid, Damp, and Hot
City, State
Houston, TX
Year, Model & Trim Level
'98 EB, '93 Limited
Umm, you are going to have to replace the whole transmission Lacky. Just getting an extension housing won't work unless you want the whole tranny torn down to replace the tail shaft.

Go with the 1354m, it will save you a ton of headaches. Don't bother with a 1350 or a 4404.
 




Lacky01

Well-Known Member
Joined
October 18, 2008
Messages
753
Reaction score
1
City, State
Eugene, Oregon
Year, Model & Trim Level
1998 Sport
Umm, you are going to have to replace the whole transmission Lacky. Just getting an extension housing won't work unless you want the whole tranny torn down to replace the tail shaft.

Go with the 1354m, it will save you a ton of headaches. Don't bother with a 1350 or a 4404.

It wouldn't be cheaper to have a shop switch it out for me? I can't find a used M5OD for less than $600. Id rather spend about $250. Do I have an unrealistic expectation? I could get a whole first Gen for $500, if it has the right tranny and transfer case I'll do that.
 




MrQ

Smokey the clutch is; Missed shift you did
Elite Explorer
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
October 5, 2008
Messages
3,221
Reaction score
383
Location
Humid, Damp, and Hot
City, State
Houston, TX
Year, Model & Trim Level
'98 EB, '93 Limited
I have no idea on what a rebuild for a manual would be, but I would estimate maybe half of what it would cost to rebuild an auto. The guy you need to talk to about that would be Kris Guilbeaux. I know for a fact he has converted at least one manual first gen, plus others. He is the king of conversions on this site.
 




Lacky01

Well-Known Member
Joined
October 18, 2008
Messages
753
Reaction score
1
City, State
Eugene, Oregon
Year, Model & Trim Level
1998 Sport
sweet! I've located the tranny I'm gonna use!! It currently belongs to a member by the name of Whitetrashfab and he's making me a great deal on it. once I get paid on the fifth I should be able to get it. that is the most expensive piece of this puzzle. next I believe will be the transfer case. I have a parts wanted thread out HERE.

Hopefully I can find one cheap. I'd really like to get the first half of this swap done soon so I can at least have a low range. and I don't mind crawling under the truck to switch if thats what it takes at first. I just need the transfer case.
 




Lacky01

Well-Known Member
Joined
October 18, 2008
Messages
753
Reaction score
1
City, State
Eugene, Oregon
Year, Model & Trim Level
1998 Sport
The parts hunt is going pretty well, but I still can't find any info on driveshafts. Ill be using a 1354M from a first gen ex. Does this mean using driveshafts from a first gen? I read somewhere that the first gen rear shaft is collapsible to fit a 4 or 2 door. Can anyone confirm this? I'm also concerned with whether the first gen front shaft is the correct length. I wish I had a first gen to crawl under and measure
 




Lacky01

Well-Known Member
Joined
October 18, 2008
Messages
753
Reaction score
1
City, State
Eugene, Oregon
Year, Model & Trim Level
1998 Sport
so in doing a bunch of research, I think i finally have a workable game plan. I'm going to get the parts to do the "first half" of the swap. that includes 4x4 transmission, 1354M, new clutch and slave cylinder, and rear driveshaft. I'll be acquiring parts as I get extra money, so it's gonna take a bit of time. I may get lucky with tax season up ahead but I won't be banking on that.

while accumulating parts, its going to get new 31" tires. the ones it has need replacing. and I'm looking into a mini spool for the rear, as long as I can install it myself.

after (and only after) that is all done, I'll be going SAS :D I'm not even gonna mess with the IFS. mainly cuz I think I can run it just fine with some good tires and a locker while I plan my solid axle. that for sure will take a couple years before I even start buying parts.

I have a lead on a transmission for $150. I just need to get the money for it. and soon :^/
 




04 EDGE

Well-Known Member
Joined
January 1, 2011
Messages
136
Reaction score
1
City, State
Westland Michigan
Umm, you are going to have to replace the whole transmission Lacky. Just getting an extension housing won't work unless you want the whole tranny torn down to replace the tail shaft.

Go with the 1354m, it will save you a ton of headaches. Don't bother with a 1350 or a 4404.


This is what I did to my ranger. I "just got an extension housing and new output shaft" and disassembled the 5R44E. It worked flawlessly with the 1354M Tcase for the last 2 or so years until my idiot son decided to roll it 2 times!

I have lots of pics on my photobucket account of the entire swap.
 




04 EDGE

Well-Known Member
Joined
January 1, 2011
Messages
136
Reaction score
1
City, State
Westland Michigan
finished product

DSC01853.jpg


torn down

DSC01837.jpg


internals

DSC01833.jpg


Yes it can be done!
 




MrQ

Smokey the clutch is; Missed shift you did
Elite Explorer
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
October 5, 2008
Messages
3,221
Reaction score
383
Location
Humid, Damp, and Hot
City, State
Houston, TX
Year, Model & Trim Level
'98 EB, '93 Limited
Yes it can edge, but he was referring to a manual transmission which requires a press to get the gears off and on the shaft. I have torn down an A4LD as well and it's certainly doable if you are careful and label your parts.
 




Lacky01

Well-Known Member
Joined
October 18, 2008
Messages
753
Reaction score
1
City, State
Eugene, Oregon
Year, Model & Trim Level
1998 Sport
well, if I can arrange for my truck to be down for a couple weeks AND have the shop space to tear down my tranny AND I could find the two parts for uber cheap THEN I'd be all for it. I would need to get the parts first and foremost. where would I find those at? I found a used M5OD-r1 for $150 if I can get the money soon enough.
 




04 EDGE

Well-Known Member
Joined
January 1, 2011
Messages
136
Reaction score
1
City, State
Westland Michigan
I "may" have a rear housing for a m5od. I will look tomorrow. I also have a 1350M fixed flange Tcase and a 1354E also
 








MrQ

Smokey the clutch is; Missed shift you did
Elite Explorer
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
October 5, 2008
Messages
3,221
Reaction score
383
Location
Humid, Damp, and Hot
City, State
Houston, TX
Year, Model & Trim Level
'98 EB, '93 Limited
Actually, I have a rear 4x4 housing I took off an m5od. The tranny is trashed, but there are still some good parts. Let me know if you need anything else.
 


Join the Elite Explorers for $20 per year. Gets rid of the ads! New $5 per month "try out" option.

Explorer Forum has probably saved you that much already, and will continue to save you money as you learn how to diagnose fix problems yourself and learn which modifications work without having to experiment on your own. Elite Explorer members see no advertisements, no banner ads, no double underlined links, can add their own profile photo, upload photo attachments in all forums, and Media Gallery, create and save more private Conversations, and more. Join Today. Your support is greatly appreciated.








Top