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351/4R70w into '93 Range rover

FIXR7

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Just had a look at the one used on a P38 Range rover and it's the same as the Ford one except tripple the price!?. Any idea what the range of movement is? 90 degrees?
 


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CDW6212R

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I don't know much about them, but there is a thread here showing how someone rebuilt one. Look for "shift motor rebuild" here. That explained a lot about how they worked, they are serviceable from what I recall.

I think they will move a bunch. In the Explorers they only move from the 2WD to the 4low position. The 4hi is always achieved with electrical control of an internal clutch. The Expedition(early) used the 4hi position with the shift motor.

Here's a sticky thread I think is the one you should look at;
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123542&highlight=shift+motor+rebuild
 




FIXR7

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Thanks Don, Looks like a good thread.
 




toypaseo

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Just noticed this thread.

Nice job :thumbsup:
 




FIXR7

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Thanks Man.
 




CDW6212R

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That's very nice Pete, it's going to work very well I'm sure. That is essentially an early Lightning 351 engine, depending on which heads and cam it has. The GT40 intake will help a lot versus the choked small HO intake.
 




CDW6212R

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Pete, about those valve covers again, what gaskets did you use? I just searched for those VC's again, and I noticed that they don't accept the best preferred OEM gaskets. I have 2-3 sets of the real steel OEM gaskets, and I'd much rather use them.

Those VC's evidently have a lip around the base, and required the old style with less width(the steel gaskets are large/wide with a rubber coating). I could try the Felpro that they call for, but I know that the OEM gaskets will last forever and never bend.

Did you consider milling off that lip from the covers? That would be my first though, but how die would that leave the VC's then?

I also like how you milled off the "BOSS" etc. I would like the "BOSS" gone, but it's no big deal since not much of it will be seen. I still have the old Cleveland polished VC's from about 1981, I'll build another Cleveland(Clevor) some day yet.

Here's the best OEM VC gasket, stock on all Mustang 89-93 HO 302's;
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-6584-a50

This link is to the Felpro gasket suggested for the M-6582-BOSSP VC's.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-vs13264t
 




FIXR7

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I used the Steel O-ringed type you mention. They just fit. The covers don't have a lip to hold cork gaskets ala' the old type rocker covers.
I think they say they're "unsuitable" more to do with the width of the rails being marginal for a good seal with the wide steel gasket.
 




CDW6212R

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I used the Steel O-ringed type you mention. They just fit. The covers don't have a lip to hold cork gaskets ala' the old type rocker covers.
I think they say they're "unsuitable" more to do with the width of the rails being marginal for a good seal with the wide steel gasket.

Great, I can buy those VC's and see how they fit with the gaskets I have.

I do wish you were closer, to do some slick welding like you have done there.:thumbsup:
 




FIXR7

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Yeah, I find it a bit strange that they can't make all the rocker covers with the same rail so they all fit!? Bit dumb if you ask me.
They should also leave at least one cover with the oil hole not machined so you don't then have to fill one in. I suppose it's a bit like when they say not suitable for EFI engines...they're just covering their ass so people who buy them don't whinge when they don't just bolt straight on with no extra work.

Yes this is now closer to a Lightning engine...just needs the cam and GT40 heads.
I have the Y303 heads, 1.7 rollers and I'll fit a retro roller but I'd rather fit them to a new engine with higher compression....8.8:1 is pretty lame. I may flog the Y303's and get some AFR 165 renegade heads instead though:)
 




FIXR7

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My welding ain't that great Don but thanks:)

Just test drove it and it feels more effortless, if that makes sense?
 




CDW6212R

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Great, you have it running now. Did you work out the vacuum lines, because it could take a while to get new or used items like that from the 90's?

That engine is a great platform for any upgrades. You could keep working on that one, but now you have the whole system working. If you can find another 351 engine I'd build the next one with more effort into the compression, heads, cam etc. You do need a better cam, just moving to a roller cam is a big step up.

I think your headers are great, and the PCM can support anything you do with the engine. I'd keep it NA and looking about like you have it, run a good 10:1, and TFS heads.

There is a lot to gain with TFS Twisted Wedge heads, those would be the best to match your stock port locations, bolt pattern etc. Anything better would not work with those headers, High Ports, Cleveland, Canfield for example.

The rest of all heads fall into the stock valve location/angle category, their potential is less than the Twisted Wedge heads, and the higher end. Given the same port sizeing or flow specs, the TW heads are faster. They cost the same as AFR, so get the TFS heads, 195 to 205 depending on your rpm range goals. I doubt that you would want bigger for the SUV, but you may.

I could build my SUV engine into a 7500rpm beast, but I would not like the high strung nature of that, in a truck.
 




FIXR7

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Cheers Don,

Sorry bout the lateness of reply.
I managed to cobble something together. I still need to find that fuel reg vac line to replace that though.
I'm not likely to buy any TF stuff though Don. 4 times bitten.
I think I'll be staying with my Y303's at this point, I'm not likely to be able to sell em for enough to offset another set of heads. I've used em before and they work very well for a low end torque monster with an XR264HR ground on a 114deg Lobe sep instead of the stock 110.
 




CDW6212R

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Let me know if you do track down any part numbers that you need etc, so I may be able to get it here easier.

Have you ever heard of any Canfield heads there? Those are similar to High Ports, but with only a .400" raised exhaust port. I have them on my 347, still yet to install into my car.
 




FIXR7

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Will do Don,but, It's unlikely I'll be able to do better than the zero information at all from the Ford parts system here.

Yeah sure Don, I've been muckin around with Ford engines since the mid eighties. So I've seen everything from the start of aftermarket windsor performance like the old Ford motorsport J302's and the iron World heads etc. Canfields have been around nearly as long. Not a bad head at all. Some have been used here but they are less common than the others just like they are over your way.
Remember that TFS intake which was effectivley a modified truck job?

and the fabricated upper TFS job with the twin plenums/t-bodies and balance tube across the back? Couldn't find a pic of this. Found this thread with an old pic in it...
original "old school" TFS twin throttle body...

How bout the BXR. I know a guy(that should read ####### because he is) who has one here. In fact he got the last one made and it needed a heap of work to make it useable!?
 




CDW6212R

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There's a member on the Corral who is running a BXR on his 363 Fox Mustang. He has it running very fast, and the only problem the BXR gives him is the belt driven distributor. He is in the process of changing operating systems, to a late 90's Mustang PCM. That will allow him to toss that distributor, and use a stock 99-01 Explorer 302 synchronizer.

I was considering a NA engine for my old Ranchero, and it came down to costs, Cleveland heads(I have), block choice etc. I think I want EFI on a Clevor of either 347 or 408 size. Head prices are way high, I'd love to have the CHI 3V heads(they have late end holes for late accessories).
 




FIXR7

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Time for an update on this. It's been going well for years. The 4R was still shifting too hard but I just lived with it. Now unfortunately the OD band broke. Any ideas what causes this? Is it because it was a Kevlar one Don?
Btw if I don't respond straight up it's because I don't get any notifications through to my email for some reason.
 




CDW6212R

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Hey, how's it going friend? Good to hear from you, and that the truck is doing well.

I doubt the OD band would break due to the material. I'd wonder if it wore out from use or not enough clamping force, and the heat made it finally break.

Refresh my memory, what model 4R70W is it, what new parts are in it, and do you have a good trans shop there?

I just checked on eBay Sunday, and expect to have another 4R delivered tomorrow. This one is the best to start a build with for a SBF, a 2004 Mustang V6 unit. That's the last year the SBF bell housing version was made, and it has the Jerry's Mod stuff built into it.

There are plenty of aftermarket parts for the 4R, the OEM frictions are about the best for any application. Sonnax now makes a forward drum that takes one extra friction set, and it's about $200. I'll build my best SUV trans with that, and this 04 VB, and many other new parts, into a 29k mile case.

I recall that your trans was built and shipped to you right? If it didn't over heat badly, it should be little trouble to have built again, maybe with a component or two changed. If you have any 04 Mustangs there, or an equivalent Ford V6 4R70W in that model range, get it if the price is good.
 




FIXR7

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Hi Don,
I'm ok. Hope you are going well?
I've had a closer look and the steel where it meets the end piece appears to be rusty in between!?
It was a Kevlar band used by Hughes.
Btw what would cause no engine braking in the remaining gears?
There's no vehicles in Oz that use any AOD-up transmisson.
Is the Borg Warner or stock Ford band the best to use?
Is there a kit of parts that has all the best gear already in it? Including that drum you refer to?
 


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FIXR7

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Btw the trans never overheated.
 




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