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3rd row electric seat back won't elevate.


ezdays

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Still would be good to take pictures of the removal and installation process for others.

If you do not want to take apart the old motor/gear assembly, I would be happy to pay shipping from you to me and I'll open it up to see what went wrong.
Thanks for the offer, I have a very inquisitive streak in me though. I used to take my toys apart and put them back as a very young child, that streak has been with me for well over 70 years. I'll take a few pictures though, and did intend to take the motor/gearbox apart and see if the gears are fixable or replaceable and let you know what I find. As I see right now though, the gearbox is force-fit into the metal bracket in one direction, and the worm gear is screwed into another part of the bracket on one side and fitted into the gear housing on the other side. I would hope to that the gearbox and motor will come out easily, but I have my doubts.I'll also take a few pictures of that, if of course, I don't wind up using a sledgehammer to take it apart.:rolleyes: :D
 


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thebrakeman

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I just read thru this thread for the first time, and have a few comments/suggestions. My '06 power seats are currently working, but the RIGHT seat sort of bumps on it's way up and down. Sounds like the gears are limping along, and hopefully will break soon (before my PremiumCare warranty runs out).

1. Some have suggested that the problem could be cargo bumping the switch in transit. This is not possible. The switches do not function unless the rear glass (or the entire hatch) is open. This prevents operation by cargo, or curious kids in the back.

2. Some have suggested that cutting that threaded push-rod presents a safety issue, in that the seat could fly forward in a panic stop or accident. That only holds water if the passenger is not wearing their seat belt. The added force of the seatback, added to the weight of the passenger, is not significant as far as the seatbelt is concerned. It simply means that the seatback will move with the passenger in a hard stop. Big deal.
If the passenger is not wearing their seatbelt, they should be more concerned with flying around the cabin during an accident, than a padded seatback flopping down on their backside.

If my power seat goes bad after it's out of warranty, I'll be cutting that rod, and work it by hand as needed.
 




ezdays

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I just read thru this thread for the first time, and have a few comments/suggestions. My '06 power seats are currently working, but the RIGHT seat sort of bumps on it's way up and down. Sounds like the gears are limping along, and hopefully will break soon (before my PremiumCare warranty runs out).

1. Some have suggested that the problem could be cargo bumping the switch in transit. This is not possible. The switches do not function unless the rear glass (or the entire hatch) is open. This prevents operation by cargo, or curious kids in the back.

2. Some have suggested that cutting that threaded push-rod presents a safety issue, in that the seat could fly forward in a panic stop or accident. That only holds water if the passenger is not wearing their seat belt. The added force of the seatback, added to the weight of the passenger, is not significant as far as the seatbelt is concerned. It simply means that the seatback will move with the passenger in a hard stop. Big deal.
If the passenger is not wearing their seatbelt, they should be more concerned with flying around the cabin during an accident, than a padded seatback flopping down on their backside.

If my power seat goes bad after it's out of warranty, I'll be cutting that rod, and work it by hand as needed.
I wish it was that easy, but it looks like to get to the rod, you'd wind up having to take the seat out to get to it.

In my case, we probably had the seat up maybe a half-dozen times. We rarely need it and given a choice, we'd have opted for just the second row. One time that we did need it, we heard a grinding noise, then just the whir of the motor running. I've taken the motor out and it looks like it's probably running around 1,000 rpm, and is geared down to maybe 20 rpm. Getting the gearbox or gear train out is not an option. I have a new assembly on order and it should be here today or tomorrow. Then the fun begins.:rolleyes:

Oh, and your suggestion that maybe a heavy load could be the cause is a good theory. We normally keep the seat down to make room for carrying stuff. Maybe pushing down on the seat back while folded causes a strain on the gears. But why only the left seat????
 




TowingExplorer

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I have personally loaded upwards of thirty 24 pound blocks in the back of my Explorer on the third row. 720 pounds distributed in the general area and no issue with my seats after. <knock on wood>



However, to that note, my seats were definitely fully down beforehand. Any chance some others (not necessarily every instance) did not have 100% down?
 




ezdays

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Nope, never loaded much of anything heavier than a load of groceries and other stuff from Costco. Got a truck for the real heavy stuff. Seats have always been in a full down position since we've only had them up a few times anyway. Just the luck of the draw I guess....:rolleyes:
 




thebrakeman

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I wish it was that easy, but it looks like to get to the rod, you'd wind up having to take the seat out to get to it.

In my case, we probably had the seat up maybe a half-dozen times. We rarely need it and given a choice, we'd have opted for just the second row. One time that we did need it, we heard a grinding noise, then just the whir of the motor running. I've taken the motor out and it looks like it's probably running around 1,000 rpm, and is geared down to maybe 20 rpm. Getting the gearbox or gear train out is not an option. I have a new assembly on order and it should be here today or tomorrow. Then the fun begins.:rolleyes:

Oh, and your suggestion that maybe a heavy load could be the cause is a good theory. We normally keep the seat down to make room for carrying stuff. Maybe pushing down on the seat back while folded causes a strain on the gears. But why only the left seat????
I didn't say that the job was easy. I simply meant that cutting the rod and operating manually from now on is perfectly functional (expecially if you rarely use the seat anyway), and it will cost you zero $$$ (versus replacing that entire motor assembly).
Also, I never said anything about a heavy load being the cause. Perhaps you were confusing me with another post.
 




ezdays

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I didn't say that the job was easy. I simply meant that cutting the rod and operating manually from now on is perfectly functional (expecially if you rarely use the seat anyway), and it will cost you zero $$$ (versus replacing that entire motor assembly).
Also, I never said anything about a heavy load being the cause. Perhaps you were confusing me with another post.
Confusion is not unlikely at my age,:rolleyes: but I can swear that someone said a load might cause the problem, putting strain on the gears. That's a possibility, but sorry if I confused what you said with what someone else said. :D

My point was that in order to get to the worm gear and attach a hand crank to it, you'd have to just about take the assembly out so you might as well replace it and you have a seat that works like it should. Now I'm not excited about spending what I did ($230 including shipping), especially since we rarely have a use for the third seat to begin with, but I know when it comes time to sell or trade in this vehicle, the dealer or buyer is going to mentally subtract the cost of repair ($700 at the dealer) from the final price, even if they don't fix it. I'm sure they'll test out the seat operation since this is such a common problem. One way or the other you get to pay the piper, so why not pay to fix it now rather than later?

Oh, I have the assembly in hand, maybe I can get it replaced today if I can get my son to come over and help. I just don't have the heart to ask my wife to help me take the seat out, besides, today is her laundry day so she's busy enough.. :)
 




dxgmmpa

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I have comments and a question about this thread. I have not yet had this problem and have not had to deal with it.

My understanding is that the problem involves three parts to the assembly... a motor, a gearbox with nylon gears connected to a worm drive shaft. I assume it is metal? Some folks have failed motors. Some have stripped nylon gears in the gearbox. It is my understanding the worm drive shaft does not strip given that the gears a nylon and designed to fail under stress. When the latter happens some of you just cut the worm drive shaft allowing the seat to go up and down as a cheap fix. Also no one seems to know for sure why the gears get stripped so soon or the motor fails causing this chronic problem with the third row of power seats. Understandably most do not like to shell out $600 for the repair or $250 for the replacement part and are looking for a more satisfactory solution.

If my understanding correct, I believe the most important goal of this thread should be to identify why the problem happens so often and so early in the truck's useful life. No one seems to know for sure. However, if you keep a truck long enough motors do fail and nylon gears get brittle with age and break. Worm drives should never wear out in an application like this.
 




ezdays

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I have comments and a question about this thread. I have not yet had this problem and have not had to deal with it.

My understanding is that the problem involves three parts to the assembly... a motor, a gearbox with nylon gears connected to a worm drive shaft. I assume it is metal? Some folks have failed motors. Some have stripped nylon gears in the gearbox. It is my understanding the worm drive shaft does not strip given that the gears a nylon and designed to fail under stress. When the latter happens some of you just cut the worm drive shaft allowing the seat to go up and down as a cheap fix. Also no one seems to know for sure why the gears get stripped so soon or the motor fails causing this chronic problem with the third row of power seats. Understandably most do not like to shell out $600 for the repair or $250 for the replacement part and are looking for a more satisfactory solution.

If my understanding correct, I believe the most important goal of this thread should be to identify why the problem happens so often and so early in the truck's useful life. No one seems to know for sure. However, if you keep a truck long enough motors do fail and nylon gears get brittle with age and break. Worm drives should never wear out in an application like this.
In my case, it's the gears. The worm gear is indeed metal and needs to be. The motor runs fine. The gears not only have a large reduction ration (I'm guessing 1000:20), but they change direction by 90 degrees. The gearbox is plastic and the gear that I can see looks like black nylon. The gearbox is riveted between two brackets, but now that I have a replacement, I'm going to try to dismantle the bracket and box to see what I can find. There's nothing to lose, and I doubt that I can repair the gears, but I'm naturally curious. I will post here what I find.

I have also completed the change out and the seats are back in the vehicle. I'll also post a step-by-step of what it took and how long it took me. I figure that I saved about $500 over having a Ford dealer do the work.:thumbsup:
 




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In my case, it's the gears. The worm gear is indeed metal and needs to be. The motor runs fine. The gears not only have a large reduction ration (I'm guessing 1000:20), but they change direction by 90 degrees. The gearbox is plastic and the gear that I can see looks like black nylon. The gearbox is riveted between two brackets, but now that I have a replacement, I'm going to try to dismantle the bracket and box to see what I can find. There's nothing to lose, and I doubt that I can repair the gears, but I'm naturally curious. I will post here what I find.

I have also completed the change out and the seats are back in the vehicle. I'll also post a step-by-step of what it took and how long it took me. I figure that I saved about $500 over having a Ford dealer do the work.:thumbsup:
All of this is great.

Having done the job once, how long do you think it would take you to change the motor in the future? I am trying to understand how realistic the dealer's billable time estimate is.
 




ezdays

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All of this is great.

Having done the job once, how long do you think it would take you to change the motor in the future? I am trying to understand how realistic the dealer's billable time estimate is.
OK, good question. You have to keep in mind a few things. For one, I had no idea which steps I needed to take and in what order. It took me some time to find the screws and determine how to access them and what I didn't have to remove. Secondly, I had no help. I was able to do the entire job, removing the seat assy from the vehicle, replacing the latch/motor assembly and putting it all back in the vehicle. Third, and most important, I am 77 years old, my point is that if I can do it, it should be a breeze for most anyone else.

That being said, I have probably about 4.5 to 5 hours total time doing it all with just a few wrenches, a screwdriver, drive sockets and a hammer. The time breaks down as follows:

  • About an hour to remove the seat assembly from the vehicle
  • Around an hour and a half to two hours to remove the latch/motor assembly
  • An hour or less to replace it and put things back together
  • Another 45 minutes to an hour to get the seats back in the vehicle and secure them

These are estimates of time since I took frequent breaks, which at my age, are expected. The second time, I should be able to cut this down by at least an hour, if I was younger, probably another hour and if I was a certified Ford mechanic, I can't believe it would take more than two or three man-hours to do the job, especially since they probably know some tricks and have a few more tools than I have.

The seat assembly must start out with these latch/motor assemblies the first thing that is put in since you almost have to remove or loosen everything else to get to them, but it's not a daunting task.:rolleyes:

I'll post the procedure as I see it in a bit, as soon as I figure out where those two extra screws go that I have left....:confused:
 




TowingExplorer

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That being said, I have probably about 4.5 to 5 hours total time doing it all with just a few wrenches, a screwdriver, drive sockets and a hammer. The time breaks down as follows:

  • About an hour to remove the seat assembly from the vehicle
  • Around an hour and a half to two hours to remove the latch/motor assembly
  • An hour or less to replace it and put things back together
  • Another 45 minutes to an hour to get the seats back in the vehicle and secure them

These are estimates of time since I took frequent breaks, which at my age, are expected. The second time, I should be able to cut this down by at least an hour, if I was younger, probably another hour and if I was a certified Ford mechanic, I can't believe it would take more than two or three man-hours to do the job, especially since they probably know some tricks and have a few more tools than I have.
That's great right there.

Let us know where those two screws ended up going if you figure it out and also if you take apart the motor.
 




ezdays

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That's great right there.

Let us know where those two screws ended up going if you figure it out and also if you take apart the motor.
I seem to remember that they held down the trim on each side of the seat, but I can't find where, and I'm not about to take things apart just for these two screws. They are not structural to hold the seats down or anything, so I'm just leaving them be for now.

I think the "repair book" pricing guide must allow about five hours for an experienced mechanic to change this unit out. There's no way that can be right based on me doing it in less time and I had to feel my way around as I went. No power drivers, no past experience and no step-by-step book to guide me along....

Oh, do not expect pictures, I find I can't post any here anyway, plus working alone it would have been difficult to take any. My step-by-step should suffice, except for those two screws which came out early so I'm fairly positive that they held the trim pieces down somewhere.
 




ezdays

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I noticed that I couldn't post any attachments and so I didn't make any special effort to take progress pictures. Now I see I can post links to pictures...:rolleyes: Anyway, I think the procedure below is fairly descriptive and should be all you need to do the job of replacing one of these latch/motor assemblies. I am willing to answer any questions that I can. Either post them here or send me a PM or email.
REPLACING THE LEFT THIRD SEAT LATCH ASSEMBLY ON A 2007 MERCURY OR FORD
Take off the rear access cover and trim pieces:
  1. Open the rear floor access cover and remove the four screws and it will come off.
  2. Remove one screw at the back of each side trim piece and towards the front of each trim piece is a plastic plunger, you can use a crowbar and yank them out. Both trim pieces can be taken out. Note that you may need to remove one more screw holding the trim down before the trim comes loose.
Remove the third row seats:
  1. Take out the two bolts in the rear and one nut in the front on each side of the seat unit.
  2. Remove the screw holding down the seat bracket and “D” loop in the middle front of the seat unit.
  3. Remove the two large nuts at the rear of the seat unit, it is holding down the seat latch assemblies between the two seats.
  4. Be sure to unplug the harness going to the two motors.
The seat unit can now be taken out of the vehicle. I was able to slide the seat assembly onto a cart using a piece of plywood. I used this as my workbench and away from the vehicle.

My next step was to loosen the right hand seat to separate them so I could get to some of the fasteners holding the latch assembly to the left seat. You do not need to remove the seat entirely since it is still held in place to the frame with pop rivets, but it will move out of the way enough to work on the left seat.

To get the RH seat loose:
  1. There are two nuts holding the seat to the front rail. These nuts are not easy to get to and are very tight, possibly with Locktite. I used a 1/2” box wrench and they took a good 10 min. to remove.
  2. Next, using a 1/2” drive socket, I removed two nuts that hold the two latch assemblies to the middle rail. Note that the right seat bracket is on top of the left one. One nut is easy to get to; the other requires that one of the seats be in the upright position. I was able to hook up an external battery (using an emergency jump-start unit) to the motor harness and applied power to the motor connector using clip leads. Just trace the wire color-codes. You can change directions by reversing the leads.
  3. The RH seat can now be moved aside enough to get access to the rest of the fasteners holding the latch assembly to the seat.
Here are the final steps to get the latch assembly out; up to now it’s not been that difficult. To finish taking the latch assembly out:
  1. Remove the large 3/4” nut holding the seat belt latches, and slide them out. The nut has a copper washer/bushing; it comes out with the belt latches. These have to come out before you can get access to the screw in step #4.
  2. Take off the small plastic cover over the side of the seat back. Two 5/16” screws hold it in place.
  3. There are two 1/2” bolts holding the assembly arm to the seat back. One is easy to get to; the other one is not accessible without cutting the seat cover over the bolt. It might be possible to pull the cover up out of the way, but I found it easier to just slice the seam on the back of the cover about two inches to expose the bolt head. These two bolts are tight, again, possibly with Locktite, and does take a lot of torque to get them started. I finally used a short pipe extension over a socket handle to get enough leverage.
  4. The next step is easy if your seat back is upright, but there’s a large flat screw with a bushing just below the latch assembly that requires a #30 torx driver. There’s not enough room for the driver if the seat is down. Since my seat was down, I had to use a pair of vice grips to remove it.
The latch assembly is now free. Boy that was fun… however, now that you know what you did to take it apart, putting it back together will be a lot easier.

After checking the operation of the new assembly out by plugging it in the vehicle, here are the steps I used to get it back in. Note that when I raised and lowered the seat backs I used an external battery connected to the motor harness with clip leads.

Securing the assembly:
  1. I first fastened the two bolts that hold the seat back to the assembly arm. I sprayed a little WD-40 on the screws to make them drive easier and they went in easier than they came out.
  2. I lowered the RH seat and I was now able to raise the LH seat to make the flat torx screw accessible.
  3. Using a #30 torx driver, replace the flat-head screw holding the assembly to the back of the seat. Make sure that the bushing rides inside the assembly bracket. Don’t do this with the seatback up, otherwise you’ll have to use vice grips or pliers.
  4. At this point, it’s OK to repair the seam you cut in the back seat cover. Since it is sewed from the inside, I opted to glue it with all-purpose cement; I aligned the seams and secured it with duct tape until the glue dried.
  5. Align the two seatbelt latches to the stud and fasten tight using the 3/4” nut. The thin bass washer/bushing was too deformed for me to reuse, so I replaced it with a flat washer. That seemed to work OK. When done right, they will move down when the seat back goes down and spring back when it goes up.
  6. Align the LH assembly bracket onto the two threaded stud on the seat frame then place the RH bracket on top of it. I had to raise the RH seat to get it to go onto the studs. It’s a bit tricky, but it does go in.
  7. Tighten a 1/2” nut onto each stud. Make sure the two mounting holes on each bracket line up; otherwise, you’ll have to loosen the nuts later to get the seat assembly in properly.
  8. Lower both seats, and then flip the seat assembly on its back.
  9. Make sure the two studs on the front of the seat frame are aligned to the bracket underneath the RH seat. Mine had slipped in place while I was connecting the two brackets to the rear of the seat frame. Use two 1/2” nuts to connect the two. I had to use a box wrench, the same way I took them off, but I put some oil on them first to make it a bit easier.
The seats are ready to be put back in the vehicle.

Simply follow the reverse of what you did to take the seat out.
  1. Align the seats with the studs, two in front and two between the latch assemblies in the rear.
  2. Reconnect the motor harness.
  3. Tighten all the screws and nuts that hold the seats in place, two screws and one nut on each side of the seats, two nuts between the seats in the rear latch assemblies, and one large screw in the front holding the “D” ring to the floor. The seats must be raised to get to the front screw.
  4. Replace the two side trim pieces and the back access door and you’re good to go.
Oh yeah, I did have two small screws left over and I believe they’re from the two side trim pieces, but since everything was back together, I just left things the way they were.

Just another note, if the seats won’t move when you connect them to the harness, close all the doors and hatch for a minute or so and try again. There is an override timer that disconnects power if the doors are open too long.

Total time for this project was about four and one-half to five hours. That’s for one person doing everything with no assistance, and a very senior citizen at that. Knowing the above steps should reduce that time by at least an hour. An experienced Ford mechanics with the right tools, agility and knowledge and who is being paid to work reasonably fast should be able to do this job in around 2-3 hours. That’s just my guess based on how long I took, my age and not ever having done this before.
 




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This is not a hard project. I did the passenger side in about an hour and 15 miuntes.
 




ezdays

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This is not a hard project. I did the passenger side in about an hour and 15 miuntes.
Yeah, I can believe that. A lot of my time was spent figuring out what the next step was since for me, there were things one had to do before you could do something else. I also think that my age and working alone did slow me down. Usually, a project that I could do in an hour when I was in my 30's, will take a good three or four hours now. A task that used to take a few hours, now takes a full day especially if it requires lifting and moving things. I now think in terms of leverage rather than using brute force. The bottom line though is that I may hurt a bit more and take frequent breaks, but I still get it done.:thumbsup:
 




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I hear ya on things taking longer...I'm in my early thirties and already seeing things a little differently.
 




ezdays

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I hear ya on things taking longer...I'm in my early thirties and already seeing things a little differently.
Just get use to it.:rolleyes: Things creep up on you and you find yourself wondering why it took so long to do something and why you hurt so much more then before. You bruise easily and bleed a lot more the older you get. Some of it's from age, some from the medications you're taking for ailments you didn't have a few years ago. I'm not painting a bad picture of getting old, just that some people can deal with it better than others. Me, I never think that I can't do something, I like challenges, like this seat motor problem, and I just do it in steps that aren't so difficult so I get things done that some people half my age wouldn't attempt. My wife is the same way, we may get older in age, but our minds and body try to stay as young as we can. :D
 


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Hello. I am new to this forum, and just read through the thread. We are having the same problem with both of our 3rd row seats on our 06 merc mountaineer. Sounds like I should be able to switch them out myself, has anyone had any luck with finding a cheap deal on the replacement parts?

And whats the factory part number??

Thanks!
 




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M 2006 Mercury Mountaineer 3rd Row HELP Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 1
B 3rd row seats Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 1
2 3rd row passenger seat stopped working Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 0
J 3rd row seat broke? Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 1
D 3rd row seat ???? Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 15
D 2006 Explorer power 3rd row seat stuck Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 4
L Remove power 3rd row seating Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 0
D 3rd Row Speakers Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 1
D 2006 Ford Explorer 3rd Row Seating Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 0
K Wanted 2008 biege 3rd row seat. Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 0
G Can I add 3rd row seats? Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 1
B 3rd Row Seat Question Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 15
94Eddie Are 3rd & 4th gen Mountaineer headlight assemblies interchangeable? Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 1
0 5R55S shift shudder between 3rd and 4th gear Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 0
N 3rd Gen Guy needs some help Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 6
G 2006 Explorer XLT with 71K Miles 3rd Shift Problem Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 4
1 3rd Brake light lense, whats missing? Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 3
L Are the 4th generation (2006 - 2010) more reliable than the 3rd gen? ('02 - '05) Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 4
P Are the 4th Generation Explorers any better than 3rd ? Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 1
Stic-o are 3rd and 4th gen rear bumpers the same? Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 2
M Need Advice: 3rd vs 4th Gen Ex Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 2
B 3rd gen vs 4th gen Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 5
V starting out in 3rd gear Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 2
S 2nd to 3rd "jerk" Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 23
E Convert power 3rd seat to amnual. Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 0
C 3rd brake light Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 0
1 Second Row Chairs Console Fold Flat? Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 1
K 2nd row seat swap Stock 2006 -2010 Explorers 1
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