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4.0 Remote Turbo Buildup

You turbo guys probably already know this but check it out anyways....

I got this from http://www.smokemup.com/auto_math/turbo_size3.php

Turbochargers 101
This article is intended to help understand the selection of a turbocharger for your car. Whether you plan to change a normally aspirated, NA, car to turbocharged or to change, upgrade the factory turbo to a bigger unit. The article assumes you have a basic automotive knowledge.

To properly size a turbo for your vehicle you need to determine the airflow requirements of the engine. The best way to determine the engine's airflow is to measure it. Unfortunately most people do not have the ability to measure it. Therefore we do the next best thing and calculate it based on estimates. This article is not a lesson in math and therefore we'll refer to using the Auto Math calculators on this site to do the work for us. SMOKEmUP has written a neat turbo calculator which will allow you to enter information about your engine. Based on these inputs the calculator will output approximate airflow requirements of your engine. Using these airflow requirements we can then take this and plot it on turbo maps to help determine the correct compressor map for your application. So lets get started.

Understanding the turbocharger compressor map. The left side of the map has a line called the surge limit line. If the compressor operates in this region the compressor becomes unstable and turbo failure may result. The two axis of the compressor map are typically pressure ratio and air flow in lbs/min. These correlate to the engines pressure ratio (how much boost you're running) and the airflow requirements of the engine, we'll let the calculator do the math for us and figure this out as explained below. The center of the map has ovals or islands as they are commonly referred too. The islands have numbers associated to them which is the efficiency of the compressor in this area. The center island is the most efficient and each outer ring has a slightly less efficiency. The goal is to place the engine's most desired RPM range in the most efficient part of the map. Typically you try to place the air flow demands so the peak RPM is at least 65% and the peak torque falls on the most efficient part of the map. This is easier said than done.

First things first we're using SMOKEmUP's Turbo Calculator. The left side of the page contains the inputs for your engine.

Engine Displacement - Engine displacement is entered in cubic inches. This is the size of your engine. If you do know the displacement you can calculate it here. For our example we'll use 122.
Engine Type - The options are two stroke, four stroke, or rotary. Most street engines are four stroke. For our example we'll use 4 stroke.
Volumetric Efficiency (%) - This number is very critical for accurate results. The bad part is most people do not know the VE of the engine without measuring it. If your engine has been on the engine dyno you'll know exactly what the VE is. Otherwise we'll use estimates. Most stock engines have VE's between 80 - 85 %. Race engines can exceed 100%. For our example we'll assume the VE is 90%.
Boost Low Octane (PSI) - Enter the boost level you plan to run on low octane gas. For our example we'll use 14psi.
Boost High Octane (PSI) - Enter the boost level you plan to run on race gas. For our example we'll use 24 psi.
Compressor Efficiency (%) - Enter the compressor efficiency from the turbo map you select. For our example we'll use 74%.
Number of Turbo's - Enter the number of turbos you plan to run. For our example we'll use single turbo.
Intercooler Efficiency (%) - Enter the intercooler efficiency. Again the best method to obtain this number is to measure and calculate it. For our example we'll use 70%.
Air Temp (°F) - Enter the intake air temperature. For our example we'll use 77 °F.
Air Fuel Ratio - Enter the desired Air Fuel ratio. This is used to aid in sizing your fuel system. For our example we'll use 11.5.

The inputs for our example are similiar to the motors used in the Mitsubishi Ecplise, and Eagle Talon. Once we enter our information in we press the calculate button and the computer does the work in calculating the engines airflow requirements, much easier than by hand. The output from the calculator looks like below.

Low Boost Results:
Pressure Ratio 1.95
Compressor Heat Added Ideal (° F) 111.88
Compressor Heat Added Actual (° F) 151.18
Compressor Inlet Air Temp (° F) 77
Compressor Outlet Air Temp (° F) 228.18
Intercooler Inlet Air Temp (° F) 228.18
Intercooler Outlet Air Temp (° F) 122.36
Density Ratio 1.8
Low Boost
RPM Total CFM Total lb/min 11.5:1 A/F
gal/hr 11.5:1 A/F
lt/hr
1000 57.2 4.24 3.69 13.97
2000 114.39 8.48 7.38 27.93
3000 171.59 12.72 11.06 41.86
4000 228.78 16.96 14.75 55.83
5000 285.98 21.2 18.44 69.8
6000 343.17 25.45 22.13 83.76
7000 400.37 29.69 25.81 97.69
8000 457.56 33.93 29.5 111.66
High Boost Results:
Pressure Ratio 2.63
Compressor Heat Added Ideal (° F) 169.13
Compressor Heat Added Actual (° F) 228.56
Compressor Inlet Air Temp (° F) 77
Compressor Outlet Air Temp (° F) 305.56
Intercooler Inlet Air Temp (° F) 305.56
Intercooler Outlet Air Temp (° F) 145.57
Density Ratio 2.33
High Boost
RPM Total CFM Total lb/min 11.5:1 A/F
gal/hr 11.5:1 A/F
lt/hr
1000 74.17 5.5 4.78 18.09
2000 148.33 11 9.56 36.18
3000 222.5 16.5 14.35 54.31
4000 296.66 22 19.13 72.41
5000 370.83 27.5 23.91 90.5
6000 445 33 28.69 108.59
7000 519.16 38.5 33.47 126.68
8000 593.33 43.99 38.26 144.81


What the calculator did for us is based on the input parameters it calculated the engines airflow requirements. Now we can take this information and select different turbo chargers to plot this information on. Again we don't want to print out a bunch of turbo maps and try to figure out where these points are on the turbo map so we let the calculator do the work for us. SMOKEmUP has a list of over 40 different turbo's you can choose. Simply select which two turbos you want to compare and press plot. The computer will plot the calculated information on the maps for you.

Since this example is based on the Mitsubishi engine we selected two turbo's. The stock 14B turbo and a Garrett T04B V1/V2. Below is the ouput from the calculator on these two compressor maps.




Ok...Now what? What you have is a plot of the engine's peak airflow requirements plotted on the turbo maps you selected. Let's look more closely at the turbo's we selected. The compressor map on the left is for the 14B turbo which comes stock on the car. The line in red is the engines airflow requirements for the engine running at the low boost level. The 1K, 2K .... through 8K points are the engine airflow at each 1000 rpm increment. You can see that at approximately 6500 rpm the airflow requirements are off the map. Now looking at the high boost plot, in blue, you'll notice the engine is off the map at approximately 6000 rpm. Also notice that the plot shows the turbo is performing outside of the peak efficiency of the turbo. In general Mitsubishi did a good job in sizing this turbo for the application.


So your friend has this big Garrett turbo that he'll sell to you for cheap money and it supports making much more power than your wimpy 14B turbo. So you buy the turbo get all the parts to swap for the Garrett conversion. You take the car for a ride and it's a dog below 5500 rpm. Let's see why. Now looking at the Garrett turbo map you'll see that the engine at 4K rpm is below the surge line on the map (not good). Since most of the usable power band is below the surge line this turbo is not a good choice for your vehicle.

Summary:
The goal of selecting a turbo is to select a turbo where the most amount of usable RPM band for the engine falls on the most efficient part of the turbo map.
 


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rocket 5979

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Yes - This is what I have basically. A hobbs switch is connected to the intake and when it see's 1 LB of boost it turns on the pump that is connected to the PCV tract. When the pump turns on it vents to the air (does not go back into the intake); when it's off it goes into the intake like normal.



Whisper's...Psst...solenoid, not pump.:salute:
 


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Someone was on the Corral site selling used RV vacuum pumps. Most pumps would be overkill, unless there was a lack of normal vacuum. It's an important factor for boosted engines, some lower intakes have no PCV opening.
 




frickea86

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Thanks for the explanations, I figured it had something to do with the added air volume or pressure. This thread has kicked off my push for doing more research on a turbo set for mine. Got a few things I want to do before then but I don't mine learning new things.

Funny thing is I just had my first splash of MIG welding on saturday, lol. My Fiancee's dad (old school ford man) was fixing their exhaust on their 98 expo. He had me practice welding on a few peices of scrap metal and then had me weld a few peices. I think I did an alright job, didn't ketch anything on fire.
 




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When boosting your engine, you start to get way more crank case pressure and blow-by. If you don't do anything about this, you can start to blow seals and such because of the pressure. Also, I've heard the rings will actually seat better without this pressure so I decided to eliminate this problem from the start with the STS PCV system.

"The system is designed so that when not in boost your PCV system will function as normal. When you get into boost then the hobbs switch will see it and close its circuit which will provide power to the PCV switch valve which will switch your PCV to a temporary vent-to-atmosphere system while under boost. Once you are off the gas and below 1 psi of boost then the hobbs switch will open the circuit and your PCV will go back to normal."

--- Rocket 5979

I am not overly excited about the STS PCV system. I have tuned several vehicles with it and it, well... just plain doesn't work. I still have mine operational but had to vent the cam cover because the STS pcv setup just wasn't enough. The same problem followed all the other vehicles-j
 




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So for that there wasn't enough flow potential for the crankcase pressure? I haven't made a decision, but I might look at the RV pump if it is small and quiet enough. An extra vacuum cannister may be helpful.
 




rocket 5979

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I am not overly excited about the STS PCV system. I have tuned several vehicles with it and it, well... just plain doesn't work. I still have mine operational but had to vent the cam cover because the STS pcv setup just wasn't enough. The same problem followed all the other vehicles-j



I believe the biggest problem to be why the PCV bypass from STS doesn't work as well as it should to bypass enough gasses is due to that teeny tiny check valve that is included. It doesn't allow anything for flow. I believe if that check valve were swapped out to something that flows better then there would be much less problems.
 




rocket 5979

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By the way (on the pipes I said I was going to plan B). I tried plan B and it didn't work out right, so I'm back to Plan A (Going into the passengers side of the intercooler from the turbo, and out the drivers side, up under the truck, and back into the engine bay to the TB. I found ALUMINUM (was using steel) cones to do the gradual transitions after a few days of searching. I’m doing the transition almost like rockets pics describe.

Plan B didn’t work out right because there is not much room under the truck for a 4” MAF and 3.5” pipe. I didn’t like the way it hung down.

I took one step forward, and two steps backwards; however, I'm on the right track now. I should have this all tied up by next weekend and will FINALLY mount the turbo.

Question. What check valve are we talking about?



It is a teeny tiny little brass piece about the size of your thumbnail. It slides into the PCV hose and will be the one-way check valve. I have already had two separate conversations with STS about redesigning this item as I believe it could be made in a better manner.
 




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I know what you mean Rob, I have dealt with worn out engines that had a lot of blowby. They will push out oil into the air cleaner, and blow out intake gaskets if they get too bad.

A PCV valve is a type of check valve, and some flow more than others in each direction. I wonder if a simple proper PCV valve could improve what you have James. I spent a little time at Pep Boys selecting a certain PCV valve to work on an old police Crown Vic that had tons of crankcase pressure.
 




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Why do you need to run this check-valve. Won't the PVC valve block the boost from the crankcase?

Most PCV valves cant hold the pressure back. Mine leaked like crazy so I added a check valve right in front of it. You could use a PVC valve from a turbocharged vehicle though..
 




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I believe the biggest problem to be why the PCV bypass from STS doesn't work as well as it should to bypass enough gasses is due to that teeny tiny check valve that is included. It doesn't allow anything for flow. I believe if that check valve were swapped out to something that flows better then there would be much less problems.
I vote for removal, I vented the cam cover with a breather and my problems went away. The junky setup just doesn't work right, arggggg.
View attachment 46951

And go duel out the back (stock location on passengers side, and same location on the drivers)
Oh man, I was really hoping for a single 3", I am not a fan of duals on a truck.
 








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Remove the sts pvc system? Oh man, I really didn't want to hear this. I paid good money for this crap.

That muffler is going right after the turbo so it'll be the same as having a 5" downpipe - atleast that's the theory behind it. We'll see how she sounds and performs before we start making judgments.

The borla muffler is gonna sound a little bit ricey on the 6 cylinder just to warn you. But over all i think they sound pretty good
 








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The turbo should alter the typical V6 non V8 sound, hopefully the result will be great. It sounds like you will have it done soon. Are all of the BA MAF meters 4" in size? I'm leaning towards the 2800, hopefully bolted to an air cleaner in the stock location.
 




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Thanks, I asked because the size will affect what kind of mounting on an air cleaner I make, and the air filter size too. It looks like a 4" inlet filter will work best, the EA filters have several in the 9" long by 4" inlet sizes. Night,
 




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The BA2800 is the same physical size as the BA2400. You can use that for size reference. Most likely the new BA2600 and BA3000 are pretty close in physical size to the others too.
 




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I thought so Robert, I just began checking into sizes for making an air cleaner. I gather that almost any of them will work for many engines in the range of 350-600hp. I shall ask James what he suggests, he has learned more than me about which are capable of my goals.

Amsoil has several universal EA filters, a few are in the 9.0-9.5" long range. Two are round and two are oval in shape. I need to pull out my air cleaner and see how much space is there, including through the fender. Robert, have you learned what space should be available around an air filter, in a container? Regards,
 




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I thought so Robert, I just began checking into sizes for making an air cleaner. I gather that almost any of them will work for many engines in the range of 350-600hp. I shall ask James what he suggests, he has learned more than me about which are capable of my goals.


Anyone of the BA series meter's will be able to support the power you plan to run. Pick whichever BA meter up that you can find for a good price. You might be able to find a good deal on a used one somewhere, unless you plan to purchase a new one from James.


Amsoil has several universal EA filters, a few are in the 9.0-9.5" long range. Two are round and two are oval in shape. I need to pull out my air cleaner and see how much space is there, including through the fender. Robert, have you learned what space should be available around an air filter, in a container? Regards,


What exactly do you mean by "container"?

Don if I were you I would cut a hole right behind your headlight and drop the tube and filter down behind your bumper/foglight assembly. I forgot to take a close look at Jim's old Exploder to see if there was enough room to do this but I cannot see any reason why not. No reason to pull hot engine bay air when you can get much cooler air just a few inches south of there. This was what I did with the Kenne Bell Explorer. The IAT's were a little cooler down there.
 




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There isn't really space there for anything but the typical trans filter. The inlet air comes from the grille opening, it is deflected to the space behind the headlights. I believe that the air there is cooler than what is inside the bay, another words a good air source.

When I say container I mean air cleaner, a box made to enclose the air filter. I plan to open up the hole behind the headlight slightly, it's likely about 5x6" now. The fender volume has an opening just under the headlight, just under the steel inner fender, and over the plastic inner fender. Thus a hole in the inner fender like Mustangs can allow a longer air filter and feed that portion of the filter. I'd like to make the air cleaner as large as possible of course, and seal it to the inner fender and radiator support.

I have the Volant air cleaner in my 99, and it is about as large of a container as can fit there. I'm not thrilled with how it fits in the stock space, it isn't held down at all, just pressure from the inlet hose keeps it from flopping around. It vibrates against the radiator support, wearing on the top. I think making a similar box will be easy, making a top that looks decent would be the interesting part. But still the air filter inside needs a certain amount of space out to the housing. Regards,
 


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This is NO easy task if you want perfection.

If it was easy everyone would do it. You'll really enjoy it when she is complete, it will look very clean and nicely tuck up out of harms way. Keep up the good work an where are the pics of the mock up?????? :mad:
 




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