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4.0L ALL Aluminum Radiators

Spdrcer34

Explorer Addict
Joined
March 14, 2002
Messages
3,873
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12
City, State
Bremerton, WA
Year, Model & Trim Level
1992 Explorer XL



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I see no transmission cooler fittings...

Ah never mind I see it says manual.

I like the full alluminum aspect. But fortune Had problems with his full alluminum radiator welds breaking. I don't know if this is a problem with them in general or just with jaime's unit.

My radiator is leaking at the tank seams so I like this idea very much.

Price isn't bad either. Shipping is alittle steep.
 






If it's possible for THIS guy to do it, I wonder what my local shop would charge to MODIFY my HD 4.0L AT radiator?

hmm...

Ryan
 






Not only is it manual trans (no fittings) its a single core. In the hot climates the single core will barely keep up.. even with a manual trans...

~Mark
 






he needs to lern how to weld before he calls it pro anything.
 






he needs to lern how to weld before he calls it pro anything.

I didn't noticed that.. as I can't read welds.. heck, I can run a straight-ish bead with a 4011 rod or our miller 135.. but it ain't purdy and I don't trust it for structural..

~Mark
 






isn't the factory rad a single core?
 






There were 3 scenarios..

manual trans regular cooling
manual trans - super cooling ( I can't remember the exact term but I think thats it)
automatic trans..

manual trans, regular cooling got single core
the other two got the 2 core radiator.

~Mark
 






single core was shipped from the factory yes

I CRINGE when I see any SUV with a single core radiator
Most of them are 91-94 sports with a 5 speed
but I have seen them in the automatics also with NO TRANS COOLER

the plastic side tanks work just fine IMO LOL

The header welds inside my all aluminum RON DAVIS radiator failed, built by a professional radiator builder...but I believe its due to the way it was mounted, however the mounts were built in by Ron Davis, not me.... very dissapointed in that Ron Davis unit BUT its nothing like whats being discussed here

I personally dont see the point, when you can get a 2 core, automatic unit brand new for $120 all day long.......
 






I actually work at a radiator shop. Everything Maniak stated is correct. A better buy would be to just get a two row HD radiator from your local parts store.

Also, the mounting of this radiator would be a concern. Any all metal radiator (all aluminum or copper/brass) that bolts to the core support will eventually tear or crack at the ears. This is especially true on a 4x4 where the chasis sees alot of flex. I have seen this on many occasions. It is better to stick with the plastic aluminum radiaor with the rubber mounting pads.
 






My 1992 originally had a single core.

I have a couple 4.0L AT radiators that I have to choose from for my 5.0L build.

I think I'll just go with the OEM design, aluminum core & plastic tanks.


Ryan
 






Good idea!

I regret spending so much on a radiator only to have it fail
I would rather cut my radiator support and run the OEM 4.0L HD unit

I will be soon actually, LOL figures! I am caging the truck so the radiator support is going bye bye, all that effort to keep the stock sheetmetal prestine was for not

LOL

I used OEM style (Gen II Explorer) rubber pucks to mount my radiator and it still pulled apart internally
 






Summit Racing has a lot of universal fit aluminum radiators. I'm sure one could be adapted to the Explorer. I bought one for my Dart:

DSC_1474.jpg


Electric fan is off of a Chevy HHR. Bought it on E-bay new for $59.00. Radiator was about $150.
 






I actually work at a radiator shop. Everything Maniak stated is correct. A better buy would be to just get a two row HD radiator from your local parts store.

Also, the mounting of this radiator would be a concern. Any all metal radiator (all aluminum or copper/brass) that bolts to the core support will eventually tear or crack at the ears. This is especially true on a 4x4 where the chasis sees alot of flex. I have seen this on many occasions. It is better to stick with the plastic aluminum radiaor with the rubber mounting pads.

I completely agree. I used to recore rads and would see a lot of this. As far as welding/brazing aluminum tanks to a stock core...I don't think it would work out to well because the heat of the welding would destroy the epoxy that is used to seal the tubes to the headers. I recently was looking for an all metal radiator, and abandoned my search when I discovered the prices of them.

My $0.02 is that if you could get a copper/brass rad made, you could pay a little extra and have all the tubes reinforced with extra solder (under the tank) at the headers, as well as adding extra solder to the corners of the headers to make it a little more rigid. Plus if it does spring a leak, it is generally easier to repair.
 






any diagrams of the internal components of these modern radiators?
I would love to know why my Ron Davis is leaing at both headers, without cutting it apart

If I have a tig welder can I fix it cleanly? is the question I am trying to answer
I expect to have to cut it open CLEANLY
and re-weld it all backl together... just trying to see if its worth it, or if its worth more as a large piece of shiny metal :)
 






any diagrams of the internal components of these modern radiators?
I would love to know why my Ron Davis is leaing at both headers, without cutting it apart

If I have a tig welder can I fix it cleanly? is the question I am trying to answer
I expect to have to cut it open CLEANLY
and re-weld it all backl together... just trying to see if its worth it, or if its worth more as a large piece of shiny metal :)

Where at the headers is it leaking? Where the tank meets the header, or where the tubes meets the header?

If it is where the tubes meet the header, my personal experience, is to use a brazing rod, and torch (propane & oxygen). As with any repair, the area in question has to be completely clean of all debris. If it's where the header and tank meet, it could just be a bad weld. Or it could be a hairline crack. If you are not experienced in repairing aluminum, you may just want to take it to a rad shop, or you risk making it worse. Most places will flush and test a rad for free.
You can also test it yourself. Plug all openings, except one, you will use that one to fill it with air. Fill rad to about 20 LBS of constant pressure (no car will run under that pressure), place rad in tub of water, and look for bubbles. Don't forget to cap off trans cooler lines if you have them.

As far as the internal components, they are all pretty much the same. The header is punched to accept tubes, the tubes are placed in the header, and then they are welded shut.

Hope this helps.
 






thanks!

I did take the unit to a local aluminum rad builder, we flow tested it with water and it POURED frmo the headers on both sides

the tibes or the tanks, I cant remember, not even sure if you could tell without cutting the top of the radiator off??
My guess is this is a $500 piece of scrap.....it works okay with a 6 lbs coolant pressure cap, a jar of BG coolant stop leak and less about 1 gallon of water... it will only leak if I fill it up all the way..
I already have a replacement I got off ebay for half, I was just hoping to be able to put this thing to some sort of use, its twice the size of the one I am putting back in (this is a Ron Davis Ford NAscar unit modded just a bit to fit my BII
 






410Fortune,
The fill with water and test for leaks, is a poor way to check (IMO). Fill it with air and check for bubbles.
You should be able to repair it without cutting the tanks off. If it's leaking where the tubes meet the header, you would just braze it on the outside of the rad, all around the tube that's leaking. Aluminum brazing works just like solder, just more heat. The brazing will flow around the tube when the heat is applied.
I don't know how many rows of tubes your rad has, but lets say it has 3 rows, and it's leaking from the tube in the middle. You would cut about an inch off the outer tube, at each end. The piece that is about an inch long would be removed from the header (on both ends), and this will give you access to the center tube to repair it. You would then braze closed the hole in the header where the tube you cut was.

If it's leaking from the welded seam, you can just braze that shut too. If it's leaking from a crack in the tank, you can put a patch over the crack and braze around the patch. If it's leaking from a crack in the header...well you're pretty much F'kd.

P.S. With this advice, I'm assuming that there is no epoxy being used on the rad ANYWHERE. When I say to braze something I'm assuming that you know the area has to be 100% clean. That the brazing rod has to be aluminum. That you know you have to use flux. And that you know you can't just use a plumbing torch from the hardware store (It won't get hot enough). Also, don't tig weld the tubes, you'll just make it worse, no matter how experienced you are at welding.
 






thank you!

no epoxy in this unit according to Ron Davis, 100% welded

I have brazed before, fixed a AC condensor tube :)

I see that new alumaweld brazing rod on TV does it work?

Air bubbles it is then!

Thank you so much! Maybe I can fix this sucker????????
 



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no epoxy in this unit according to Ron Davis, 100% welded

That's good, epoxy sucks.

I have brazed before, fixed a AC condensor tube :)

Speaking of tubes, some are seamless and some are not. If the tube has a seam, too much heat will cause it to open up and leak. Then you have to cut that tube out too. I probably don't even have to say it but I will. Every time you cut out a tube you'll lose a little bit of the cooling capability of the rad, but seeing that the rads these things came were the bare minimum, you should be able to cut out a few and have no problem.

I see that new alumaweld brazing rod on TV does it work?

I've never used it. I've been out of radiator repair for about 8 years, so I'm not up to date on new products. When I was doing it though, I used plain aluminum rods (they looked like straightened out coat hangers), and flux out of a tub (it was almost like a dry paste, and I don't remember the name of it). When I did it, I would use the rod to scoop the flux out of the tub, then heat the glob of flux, when it started flowing I would apply the heat to the rod. Sometimes when plugging a hole in the header some of the brazing will drop into the tank. It's not a problem, just shake the rad around until it drops out of one of the connections, you don't want that in your cooling system.lol

Air bubbles it is then!

Since your rad seems to have multiple leaks, you'll have to pressure test it after each repair. Once it stops "gushing" from the areas you are repairing, be sure to check for small "fizzers", those are the ones that sometimes take a few minutes to show up.

Just another little side note, if you notice that the area you have to torch on is turning white, remove the heat immediately, you're melting it. If you have a junk rad kicking around maybe you can practice with the heat on that first.
Also, I can't stress enough that the area has to be free of all contaminants...just a tiny speck of dirt will make your repair leak.

Glad I could help you out. I knew I'd be able to give you some useful info someday, after all you've given me a ton.

Spdrcer34, sorry that we kinda hijacked your thread.

EDIT: ALL OF MY ALUMINUM REPAIRS HAVE USED A TORCH WITH PROPANE & OXYGEN
 






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