410Custom's builds a 2007 Ranger V8 - custom truck build - Project "Ranger Premier"

[410Fortune]

exactly
I can tell you it will ride better then a 07 Ranger with t bars cranked to the max = no more droop travel in one of those, still 3-4" of bump to give.
Paint is about the least important thing to me but I'm cheap and beat the snot out of my rigs daily.

My wifes 07 FJ cruiser is setup like this, 6" drop brackets, mild 2" kit, works like a champion! Her ride height is set to stock like angles, her truck uses RCX drop brackets, Fox 2.0 threaded bodies in the front (for now) with OME medium coils (eibach 650 psi), She has 3-4" of droop (from ride height) and about 3"-4" of bump travel (at the shock) and it really handles our forest roads nicely!

You guys rock, keep the ideas and foreseen issues coming..........knowledge is power! go prepared.

 

[gmanpaint]

From running the coil over swap for the ifs for 10 years, I can say they do soak up the bumps way better than torsion bars do. Like a lot. That's the positive.

The negative is the high coil spring weight we need to support the vehicle. 750 to 800 lb springs are very stiff. They will unload violently when wheeling up an obstacle. They do not compress easily.

I personally dislike drop bracket lifts, but the advantage they give is lift. They allow the LCA to be flat which gives you all of the shocks travel, more so with droop.

Without the brackets, we crank on the coil nuts to gain lift for larger tires, and lose down travel, due to CV limitations.

Rear support kicker bars on the back of the cross member plow drop bracket, will help with wheel chatter by triangulating it. I have watched the front wheels chatter back and forward violently without them on trails.

Everything comes with a compromise, so in the end, it's all a personal choice, and what ever works best for you is what matters. Trial and error is part of it.

 

[410Fortune]

750 -800 psi coils yikes
I heard 650 is the sweet spot for a 4 door sploder, I have been researching the T bar delete on these rigs since Gerrald Garret put 8" Fox threaded bodies on his 98 Eddie. (I just happen to have his old setup downstairs!!, did some horsetrading for it years back)
This Ranger I was thinking of starting with 600 and go from there......... thoughts?
We will be using Kings on the front and back of this Ranger, a single King 2.0/2.5 threaded body should do it, no need to run a CO and bypass shock for this trucks use. 8" stroke will likely be enough even though I have big dreams to run something longer I do not want to run a 10" shock just to gain a tender coil......worthless.
I recently put Kings on the wifes FJ in the back and all I can say is I no longer like my Ranchos or my Fox shocks.........good thing Brett is a King dealer because they are about to get all my paychecks and (Eddies too)

 

[gmanpaint]

650 is way too light. I tried then, and they bound up as soon as the vehicle was put under it's own weight.

I tried 700, and they bound a little on the first obstacle climbing up, and bound on coming up out of a hole.

750 works with no bind for my rig, and is what's used now. Lots of people run 800 for them, but that's way to stiff for me.

Even with the drop brackets, there is a good chance you will still crank on them coils for some lift for those tires. 600 will bind instantly doing that, and will bind on every up swing compression. They also settle a bit over time, making it worse.

My advise is to start at 700, and go from there.

 

[dezertranger]

The negative is the high coil spring weight we need to support the vehicle. 750 to 800 lb springs are very stiff. They will unload violently when wheeling up an obstacle. They do not compress easily.

sounds like you may need some valving adjustments on the rebound side of the shock piston! ive ran 800lb springs on a 10" shock on a silverado and can confidently say there should be no difference in unloading than running the 400 pound springs i now run on my ranger

by bind do you mean they run out of compression before the shock?

 

[gmanpaint]

What length shock body are you planning on using for the 8" travel?

14", or 12" with extended eyelets?

If 12" I have a new set of 650 Eibach coils you can use for mock up.

 

[gmanpaint]

sounds like you may need some valving adjustments on the rebound side of the shock piston! ive ran 800lb springs on a 10" shock on a silverado and can confidently say there should be no difference in unloading than running the 400 pound springs i now run on my ranger

by bind do you mean they run out of compression before the shock?

I'm no expert at all on shocks, but can share my experiences and what I have learned over the years, on my setup, and others I have had the pleasure to be around.

As far as the shock valving goes..... It's Not the shocks causing the hard unload. It's all spring related. Mostly when cranked on, and used for lift. I should have mentioned that originally.

Tension is forcing them to be compressed, and when there is no weight under them, they open as far as the stops will let them. If there is only a slight compression to seat them, then it's not as noticeable, but the heavier the rating, and the more they are cranked on (coil nuts) the more they will unload, with nothing pushing them back, like the weight of the vehicle. If any of that makes sense.

I ran 18 way adjustable QA1 shocks for years. Can select the valving for the terrain with a knob. Set on either the softest or firmest setting, the springs still unloaded harshly. I now run Fox with resi's, same deal. If I used less down force on them, and gave up the lift from them, I'm sure this harsh unload would decrease.

What I refer to as Coil bind...

When the coils compress and touch each other. Either all of them or a few couple of the curls, depending on the rating & load.
ie.... The vehicle could cause coil bind, if the coil rating is too low, to handle the weight.

Explorers are heavier than a Ranger, but the front ends should be close to the same. Add in all your accessory weight, and adjust the coil rating as needed.

 

[dezertranger]

yes it all makes sense. ive been around shock tuning for a long long time in the desert racing industry. so have no fear of getting your point across!
so to address the first issue...rebound valving shim adjustment will 100% affect the unloading or extension speed of the shock when there is no weight from the vehicle on it. - remember inside a shock theres compression valving AND rebound valving. the rebound side always gets overlooked
if youre relying on your shock to stop the down travel id suggest getting limiting straps on your suspension to protect those expensive shocks from damage!


second are you using one spring or two? what length coilover and coil(s)?

 

[gmanpaint]

Limit straps have been installed, and on the same day the coil over swap was done. Have changed them out as needed from stretching with use. All good there.

This SLA application is different then say, a modified ttb, or straight axle lifted long travel application. Please keep this in mind.

These shocks are short. We use a meager 6.5" travel with a 10", 12", or 14" body, and matching length single coils, depending on lift methods, if any. The CV axles are the limit factor for articulation length. Nothing changes this measure, except a Long travel kit, as they use longer CV axles, and these can run longer shocks, with more travel.

Personally I run a 12" setup, with no bracket lift, but run 35's with plenty of body massaging, and front/rear spring lift for clearance.

Running dual coils, isn't an option on these tiny setups. At least, not that I know of. We get 3" up, and 3" down with the lca dead flat at a 50/50. If used for lift, every increment of lift, takes away the same from the down travel. A 60/40 with slight lift on the arms, is better than a 50/50 I believe.

Now add that force being used for lift on the springs, and there is constant (bound) pressure on them.

My original set up was a 10" body, with a 10" 750# coil. Worked well for no lift, but when I wanted to add 2" lift, that's where the 10" coils became an issue. Not only for the increased down pressures, but the body almost ran out of threads for the spanner nuts, with the bottom coil starting to bind.

I swapped to 12" coils, got the 2" of lift , leaving the spanner nuts in the middle of the body threads. All is well with bind, lift, and plenty of adjustment room left on the body.

I have tried multiple weight ratings of the 12" coils, and have found that 750 works best for the rig.

The front suspension is tight. Real tight. I can't compress it with my 230 lb body weight if I wanted. Standing on the rock sliders, the rig barely moves. Now I have tried to rock, and move others with the same setup, and get the same results. Those that do not use the coils for lift will have more give, but..... not much more.

410, hopefully some of my blabbing will help you, and sorry if any of it causes confusion. Lol Most of what I said only refer's to rigs not using a long travel kit. I would talk to BTF and ask what shock/coil combo they have been using, on their Ranger LT kits.

 

[dezertranger]

its actually all relative. no matter if its 20" or travel or 6, beams or a arms the same spring and shock rules apply. only difference is lighter coils are needed for ttbs/ beams as the shock is more at a 1:1 ratio.
travel of the suspension has nothing to do with spring lengths. running a 12" spring on a 12" stroke shock is 100% going to give you bind and is lacking spring for ANY application.

my old truck for example. was a 2006 silverado. 10" stroke coilovers, 18" main 800# spring with 4" top 500# spring. the 500# spring is fully compressed at ride height- its only job is to keep preload on the main spring when the suspension is dropped out becasue otherwise itd lose tension

 

[gmanpaint]

CV axles is why. You can't change the articulation numbers, no matter the length of the shocks.

The mounting distance for upper and lower changes in stock, to lifted drop brackets, or modified upper buckets, but still use the same amount of travel, regardless.

Our stock CV only have 6" travel before they bind and break under stress. Limit straps are used to stop over extension with the shocks that have more than 6" of travel.

It's a different mindset on these SLA ifs CV setups. Conventional shock setups only apply to our rear straight axles on these rigs.

I talked to a fox rep a couple weeks ago. He told me they make 36" shocks for 15" lifts on trucks that only use 8" of travel due to CV axles. Lol

 

[dezertranger]

i understand the cv axle is the limiting factor. ive set up many many 4wd a arm rangers in my day. im just saying 12" of spring on a 12" stroke shock is always gonna give problems. suspension travel does not affect spring length at all. in my professional opinion - setting up and tuning suspension on offroad trucks of all types for race teams and hobbyists alike for the better part of 15 years- conventional coilover set ups apply to all trucks regardless of the suspension type and travel. EXCEPT for those huge 15" lift kit trucks. thats another story

 

[410Fortune]

So what time do you guys get here? Ill put coffee on and fire up the welder

 

[gmanpaint]

12" body for a 12" coil, not 12" travel. I see where that is confusing.

A 6.5" travel shock body is made to use a 10" coil.

An 8" travel shock is made to use a 12" generally speaking.

When used for a 2" lift, a coil that is 2" longer than intended will fit, and leave adjustment threads on the tube for more if you can get another 0.5" of lift out of your CV.

Because of the 6" CV limitations, I use body or coil lengths when referencing applications on these rigs, as any shock with more than 6.5" of travel is only relevant when talking mounting distances.

I should probably stop talking like that, as it is confusing when thinking of conventional methods. Lol


Jamie, you told us to discuss!

 

[EddieMoney]

So many ways to get lift.... that's why it's at 410customs shop!!!

 

[fordpickupman]

Updates?

 

[donalds]

It's baking @350
Lmao

 

[Paul]

Yeah. . .

Updates?

 

[410Fortune]

Um didn't you guys hear? I gave into temptation, stole all these awesome parts, built a 306 5 speed long travel sport trac and took off for Alaska overland adventure!!
Nothing to see here move along.................I'll be back after the election crazyness is over and I can safely drive through Seattle without getting firebombed


Okay okay I wish.....no nothing like that has happened, instead I just got sidetracked, busy, dealing with Covid like everyone else
However I have been working my ass off (literally I have dropped quite a few pounds this summer) so I am able to focus 100% on this build...

Backstory: We built a two story 1000 sq ft addition to our house (so my son will have his own room), we bought another house in town with huge shop (we flip houses as investments), and I have built several other projects, finished fixing many of our own trucks (like 5 major projects), custom rear suspension on the FJ cruiser, Bronco II roadworthy again, new turbo and deletes on the excursion, cleared another 2-3 acres of brush (room for more trucks) and expanded the shop and storage.

Now the snow is coming and I am almost there...this truck will have my full attention for the next two months or more........I'm talking front and center no distractions, no other build projects (well aside from the usual suspects)

Sorry for the delays, when we moved here to Idaho I setup a 5 year plan before this place is our personal paradise and the shop is 100% ready to roll, we are now on year 3 and things are progressing nicely. My elevator work does not take me away from trucks like it used to, but Covid sure did put a dent in things (homeschool, less $$$, less work, etc).. there are more excuses I could throw out here, but nobody wants to hear those, so lets just get back to the build shall we?

 

[CDW6212R]

Well done. I am happy you are making things work in your world. Most have given up freedoms and accept it, I'm running out of patience, big government does not work for me.

Keep going full speed with every new thing you can find, it will keep you alive and satisfied. Best regards,