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4R70W Rebuild Diary Discussion, Questions, ETC

Glacier991

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I think in this Diary, rather than have folks post throughout the various sections, I will just have a general thread where they can post comments, ask questions, etc. That will keep the Diary easier to use for foolks, but allow a place for commentary and a give and take on info etc. So I will soon be locking completed sections and have folks post here.
 


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Glacier991

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Supra77r is the first one here:

supra77r said:
Were is the best place/website to get the parts I need?
Has anyone had good/bad experiences with transmissionpartsusa.com?

Any suggestions on parts would be great.

ps: i only want to get parts that will be the same size/measurement of the stock parts.
 




Glacier991

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I consider them a very reliable and good supplier. I use them frequently.

At the conclusion of the Diary I will post suppliers and parts listings and where possible at least MSRP. I do not think I should necessarily post prices from various suppliers. I will tell you who has what and let you search out the prices on some things, knowing what MSRP from FORD is.
 




supra77r

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My f150 lost 3rd and 4th gear. I pulled tranny and found the direct clutch burnt up. Besides that everything else looks very good and clean except for some small other things, which i know are always important in trannies.

The sealing ring on the output shaft the one closest to the snap ring and the ring gear (not the small ones, the large silver ones) was snapped and broken. All the others look great. Im thinking this had a big factor on why the clutch burnt up? Opinions?

The direct Drum I question?
The back of it were the output shaft inserts seems to be worn a little in the hole and I can see in the hole were the output shaft rings met the hole there is a little line were they were.

The reverse clutch dog ears and the sun gear were the dog ears insert are both worn a little in some spots, but not really bad.

That is what I have seen to be the only thing wrong with this tranny what I have stated above. The tranny was rebuilt/replaced from ford about 50k ago. Its a 97 tranny and I have all the newer parts/upgrades that were already on it when i pulled it down, like ex. mechanical diode and rubber accums. Everything else looks really like brand new on this tranny.
So I will get to my questions now and try not to make this much longer.

Do you think I should replace the direct drum?

Can I get by with not replacing the reverse clutch and the sun gear?

Because I really dont have the money and am not trying to build the strongest tranny, but just trying to fix whats needed so i can drive my truck.

Only parts Im replacing:
I am planning on just replacing the direct clutch frictions and steels, and the seal ring on the output shaft, the reverse servo, the od band, the extension housing seal, a couple of main valve body gaskets, pump gaskets, and installing a drain plug in pan, and sanding all neccesory parts down for better oil circ. Then putting it back on my truck and hoping just to use it as a regular (nothing special) daily driver tranny.

Do you think by me replacing just those things that I stated above that it will be ok?

If not what are you opinions?

Last question: I dont have a dial caliper or depth indicator. I was thinking that i dont think it will matter to much because i am replacing the direct clutch steels and frictions with stock measurements so nothing will have changed in measurement. So I was just going to put the plastic thrust washer (yellow) that i took off and just use that same one for clearence on the pump.

You think that will be ok?
 




Glacier991

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Whew, a lot of good questions. Let me try and share my thoughts and try and answer them for you.

First, the direct drum is a common failure point on these transmissions. The fluid pressures to engage and maintain engagement come through the case rear output shaft bore, through the output shaft and out through the part of the shaft that the direct drum sits on. A couple sets of sealing rings are involved. The steel sealing rings in the rear case bore, and teflon sealing rings on the stub end of the output shaft.
This problem is why I did 2 things in my rebuild. First I re-sleeved the rear bore to steel, and second, I added one piece teflon seals on the stub end where it rides in the direct drum.

Your situation as I understand it exhibits a broken steel ring. Could this be the source of the burned up direct drum? Absolutely. I suppose the better Q is how and why did it get broken. If you read the diary on this point in reassembly, you will see I commented that installation of the output shaft was an exercise in being gentle. *I* broke a steel ring! They are like glass. How any why it broke would be a mystery I'd be curious to know the answer to. That rear case bore is a critical item, how does it look? Any damage? If so that case needs to be sleeved to be reused.

Next the output shaft SHOULD use solid teflon seals on that stub end.

Can you reuse the direct drum? possibly. IF the bore is clean and undamaged, and IF the steels will ride up and down in the drum cleanly and easily, it can probably be reused, but I cannot say definitely without seeing it.

Sun gear and reverse drum dog ears engagement. FORD says wear limit is 1/16 inch. Re-Use? You make the call. The sun shell is reasonably cheap to replace.

I think your case end clearance will not be altered so much you cannot reuse the same end thrust washer (yellow) but again, that's my best guess.

If I were you, here is what I would do. 1) Carefully and honestly evaluate the rear bore for damage. If you find some, have it sleeved.

2). Put solid teflon seals on the output shaft and size them.

3. Evaluate the direct drum. New steels and plates no matter what.

4. see if the reverse drum and sunshell are all that bad or over 1/16 inch (pretty rough measurement using your eyeballs.

5. Treat yourself to a $15.99 HF Digital caliper.

If you need help on installing the one piece seals and sizing them to a new or reused direct drum let me know. I can offer some assistance, but you will have to ship it to me. and pay return shipping.

I think you can rebuild this trannie with bubble gum and baling wire. It is a strong tranny and is not needing of as much attention as the A4LD or 4R/5R series. BUT, that direct drum needs special care and feeding.

Hope this answers your Qs.

ps. depending on age and mileage, you might want to consider either a) replacing the EPC solenoid, or at least b) checking direct drum operating pressure at the direct tap.
 




supra77r

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Thanks for the info. It helps alot. I am going to put some pics of the stuff ive been talking about soon. I dont have a spring compressor for the clutch piston, but I just put a large c clamp on both sides of the piston and it compressed it. I havnt taken the piston or springs of the drum yet, because im not sure it is neccessory for me to do that and replace the seals. the damage to the bore on the drum as i look at it more and more doesnt seem bad at all. Ill Post some pics soon.
 




97BlackX5.0

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I had this same exact situation that supra had. Had the drum burn up. I did almost exactly what you are suggesting. Replaced Direct drum ($15 ebay part) Rebuild Kit (75 dollar ebay part) and put it all back together with as many new seals and frictions as possible from the kit. I did not have any depth measurements or special tools. I was able to get all the accumulator springs in and out with out any special tools other than a little bit of muscle and the handle of a wooden hammer to use as a hand press. You can pretty much take the whole tranny apart and rebuild it with a pair of snapring pliers, a 8mm socket, dental pick, and a couple of C-clamps for hillbilly spring compressors. Mine is still running 70k miles later with no problems (knock on wood) The one part that you have to be especially careful about is the last set of clutch discs you put in the case. After you get it bolted together you have to make sure it will turn over without too much resistance and not locked solid from too much thickness in this last set. If this vehicle HAS to work without failure then I would suggest a more expensive and total rebuild. If its a second car and you dont want or cant spend much money on it. I would at least replace the direct drum and get some new seals for back there. Then bolt it all back together and hope for the luck ive had.
 




Glacier991

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Nothing wrong with a couple of C clamps as compressors! And you are more or less right this tranny can be rebuilt pretty easily with a good chance of success and some longevity. Bubble gum and baling wire!
 




supra77r

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Very simple question. This maybe a stupid question, but I was wondering Chris what kind of scotch brite product do you use and were is easy place to get it. ex. grocery store? Also the sanding material. Home Depot type stuff?
 




Glacier991

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Let me start by offering a disclaimer. The abrasives I use were not carefully hand selected for the task. They were more or less what I had around and what seemed suited.

That said, I rummaged through my autobody repair and painting stuff, and came up with scotchbrite pads. They are "Fine" and 3M part 37448. I think you could just as easily use green. I am unsure but suspect you may be able to get scotch-brite at Home Depot. Mine came from an auto paint store.

The paper I use to burnish and scratch up bores with is a silicon carbide paper called wet or dry, it's made for metal, and I use it in grits of 320, 400 and 600. Available most anywhere.

For real scuffing (drums etc) I use either a 150 grit to 220 grit aluminum oxide paper... mine comes in rounds to be used on a DA (dual action) sander and is adhesive backed, which it is a real PITA for the use I am putting them to.

Just remember, it's not rocket science. Kinda what's easy to get and suitable to the need.
 




supra77r

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Sounds good. I figured that. Anyways i will be putting my tranny back on soon and have one more thing to worry about.

What is the best way for me to drain/clean/clear out my radaitor/cooler/lines before I put tranny back on and add new fluid. I know I need to do some kind of cleaning/flush so i just want to know the best way I can do it myself at home. Thanks again for all your help Chris!
 




Glacier991

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Transmission supply houses carry a product in an aerosol can that will book up to the line and blow a cleaner/flush through it. Follow that up with compressed air and you should be ok. In the case of a fragged tranny replacement, FORD insists on an in line filter too. In addition to the pan filter.
 




97BlackX5.0

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With just the burned up clutch packs I didnt bother flushing mine as their wasnt any "metal" shards all over. The lines however did drain when I took them off the tranny.
 




Glacier991

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Generally it is cheap insurance - if there is ANY question in your mind as to "should I?" ... then you should. Sounds like yours were intact and just burned.
 




supra77r

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Mine were only burnt also, no shards. But I still will be flushing/draining the lines anyway, its quick and barely costs anything, and I just like any fluids/fluid pathways as clean as possible.
 




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supra77r

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Did you have a tranny jack to use 97Blackx? I think for sure Chris did, but I dont have one. I drove my truck on small ramps in front and used a regular small floor jack and put a big piece of wood on the jack and had the tranny sit on the wood, strapped the tranny down real tight and used that to drag the tranny out from under the truck. A real PITA. It probly would have worked really well if this tranny didnt have the pan hump in it that made it unlevel to support. I was thinking of using some scrap wood laying around and using a flat piece of wood and putting 2x4 around the edges and line up with the pan bolts to make a tray effect and put that on the jack. Dont know what I will do, just trying to think of better ways to get that bad boy back on my truck and making it a little easier on myself this time.

Oh, and what really makes things worse is I had my truck on ramps, but had to roll it off of them to get my truck out of the way of my roommates boat he had to get out of driveway. So now I have to figure out the best way to get the truck either back up on ramps or equivalent height to be able to get under it and put the tranny back on. Thats my little situation I got. I just have to work with what I have. LOL. Unless anyone has any suggestions? ex. jacks stands, blocks? (dont think jack stands are high enough).
 




supra77r

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Thanks Brooklyn, Ill take a look at that. I was looking at the LubeGuard Kooler Clean for around $12.
 




supra77r

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ok didnt realize that was the same stuff until looked it up. :confused: LOL. Im going to give that a try.
 


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supra77r

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Help me IDENTIFY THIS PART please!

This is from a 4r70w tranny. Off a 97 F150 4.2L 2wd. I was removing the valve body from the case and these parts just fell out from somewhere. Im not sure if they fell out when I was removing the valve body to case gasket or what. I just know they fell out when I was removing the VB from the case and removing VB case gaskets.

I was looking at some VB parts online and it looks like those sleeves go inside a part in the VB and that scares me because that means they fell out the internals of VB. But Im not sure were they go,
So if someone can please help me out on WHAT THEY ARE AND WERE THEY GO?

Here is a pic of them...
sleev1.jpg
 




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