5.4L DOHC with a 4r100 in a 2nd gen? I'm going to try it........ | Page 3 | Ford Explorer Forums - Serious Explorations

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5.4L DOHC with a 4r100 in a 2nd gen? I'm going to try it........

I want over 300hp and 300tq to the wheels and it takes a ton to get a 302 there.

I realize that you're a 5.4 fan and that's fine, it's a perfectly good engine. However, the above statement about taking a ton to make power with a 302 is ridiculous. There's a reason for why the small block Ford engine is one of the most popular engines for modification ever made. You could bolt on a set of aluminum Edelbrock heads, any off the shelf cam, and a set of headers and be generating 400 hp at the crank in an afternoon. All for less than $2K of investment.
 



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I realize that you're a 5.4 fan and that's fine, it's a perfectly good engine. However, the above statement about taking a ton to make power with a 302 is ridiculous. There's a reason for why the small block Ford engine is one of the most popular engines for modification ever made. You could bolt on a set of aluminum Edelbrock heads, any off the shelf cam, and a set of headers and be generating 400 hp at the crank in an afternoon. All for less than $2K of investment.

Very true but then there is still major tuning to unleash the power in an explorer e-dis setup. I "kinda" want a relatively stock engine to keep the reliability up. I realize replacing the pushrods with timing chains makes that a contradicting statement but all I am looking for the extra grunt with as many junkyard parts as possible. I am doing this on the cheap as most of my money will be spent on the axles and fabrication. Also if I put the $2k into the 5.4 I would really have a boost ready monster as a turbo is definitely a thought of option for a later date.
 






They're low reving truck engines that dont make very good power in factory form unless it came with a supercharger. The 2v 5.4 makes the same hp as the 4.6 and only 48 ft-lb more. I know they can make 1000+ hp, so Im not saying they cant make power. Its just expensive to do so.

Dont get me wrong, Im a Ford guy all the way and own a 2002 Mustang gt with a Kenne Bell. Its just a 2.2 @ 9 psi but it put down 400whp. I wanted to swap a 2v 5.4 when I first bought the car in 2008 but I quickly realized it made no sense when I can just supercharge it and make more power. My engine is all stock so I dont want to go any higher with the boost, plus my fuel system probably wont support it.

That's kind of bizarre way to think about it. My 2000 GT with a very close to stock 4.6 ran 13.7 at 101 with 3.27 gears. I was on all season street tires in full weight street form, spare tire and all, with my sub in the trunk. I had a catback and upper intake elbow, that's it. You do realize that would have given a 69 Boss 429 a run for its money right? Hell you're living proof that the 4.6 will put down 400whp on a stock rotating assembly. If you ask me, that right there doesn't make the engine suck. You've damn near doubled it's factory power output.

Far as supercharging your 4.6 vs a 5.4 swap, the 5.4 swap costs way less to do than a KB so you're not really comparing apples to apples. You can get a rotating assembly for 1500 bucks all forged that will let you rev a 5.4 to 7 grand all day long if your heart so desires. The 5.4 is by no means a low revving truck engine (look at the Shelby's and the Ford GT, 7-8000 RPM is not out of the question).

Now, yes the 5.4 they put in their trucks were low revving (due to the rods not being able to handle the RPM), but that's because they were designed to be in trucks haha. Truck cam, truck intake with long runners, they make insane amounts of torque damn near off idle and there's no reason to rev a truck engine to 6 grand. It was an incredible engine for its day and IMO still is a great engine that makes great power and moves my 5300lb F-150 along quite well. Put it this way, Ford is still using it as far as I know (maybe it's gone for 2015 or 2016 I haven't checked recently) and they only just recently discontinued production of the 4.6 a few years back. Again, no sucky engine is going to last that long in any production vehicle. The 4.6 debuted in I believe 91 in the town car and the 5.4 in the 97 f-150. That's a hell of a run for both engines.

Granted while you are correct that the HP is the same and "only" 48 ft lbs more, I disagree that the swap is not worth it. Ever driven a 5.4 swapped car? Remember the torque is there throughout the powerband and the much harsher pull of the 5.4 IMO is well worth the swap. Not to mention the extra bottom end is godly to have in a daily driver. HP is a function of torque, torque is what really rules the streets, HP numbers are just fluff for the most part and I think too many guys get too tied up into it. Most guys who are naysayers have never driven a 5.4 swapped car. The guys that do it will tell you it's way worth it. If you're real cheap like me you can get a 5.4 from a u pull it for 150 bucks and just drop it in. Some minor exhaust work and a tune if you so desire and you're in business for the most part. Could even go with the Navi engine if you wanted to do some more work, that right there is 300hp and 365tq out of the box if i remember correctly. My old Navigator with the 5.4 DOHC MOVED. For a big ass SUV that thing ran something like 8-8.5 second 0-60's stock. Again, impressive.

Guess I'm just a fanboy, but I love these engines lol :us:
 






Right, and it seems that since you've already got one setup for duty it is going to be the most cost effective path forward. The extra displacement doesn't hurt and the SOHC configuration is going to run smoother than a pushrod motor would. I still haven't made the leap into modular territory yet, although I've performed numerous pushrod builds using EDIS and custom tuning. The Coyote was an interesting advent, but the cost isn't worth it IMHO. If that engine produced over 500 hp in stock form I would perhaps think differently.
 






I realize that you're a 5.4 fan and that's fine, it's a perfectly good engine. However, the above statement about taking a ton to make power with a 302 is ridiculous. There's a reason for why the small block Ford engine is one of the most popular engines for modification ever made. You could bolt on a set of aluminum Edelbrock heads, any off the shelf cam, and a set of headers and be generating 400 hp at the crank in an afternoon. All for less than $2K of investment.

Missed this post. Agreed. The 302 is much cheaper to build up. But anything over 500 HP starts to really add up as well when you have to buy a dart block. I wasn't necessarily saying the 302 was a bad engine, I was just more talking how the 5.4 is also a great engine. Is it better than a 302? Eh they both have their ups and downs, but the general consensus of this thread so far from what I've seen, is that the mod engines were bad engines which is really the part I'm disagreeing with. I guess bad is a relative term. Both are great engines if you ask me and both have their place. In OP's case a 347 would be a much more simple choice, but it wouldn't be original nor cool. I also do believe he's going to love the low end grunt of the 5.4.

Don't get me wrong I was a hardcore pushrod guy way before I got into mod engines. I bought my 302 ex after I was a mod engine fan. So believe me I still love our beloved 302's :). I still run a 393W in my 69 stang and have zero plans of ever having anything but a pushrod engine in it. Overall investment into the 393 is about 3 grand and it makes 400 hp and 440 ft tq. Try making that kind of power with a mod engine for that price haha. I take it out to 6000 RPM too all day long and it takes it like a champ. You'd probably spend easily twice that getting a mod engine to make that kind of power. There's no replacement, for displacement :thumbsup:


Right, and it seems that since you've already got one setup for duty it is going to be the most cost effective path forward. The extra displacement doesn't hurt and the SOHC configuration is going to run smoother than a pushrod motor would. I still haven't made the leap into modular territory yet, although I've performed numerous pushrod builds using EDIS and custom tuning. The Coyote was an interesting advent, but the cost isn't worth it IMHO. If that engine produced over 500 hp in stock form I would perhaps think differently.

Grab a mod engine from a yard and tear it down for fun. It's not all big and scary like most people think (well they are big, but they're not scary). I was once in that boat when I knew nothing but pushrod, so this overhead cam stuff was a foreign language. But now I've been working with them a few years now and it's not so bad. Far as the Coyote, forget it. Those engines make killer power for a 302, but hot damn are they pricey. I won't own one of them for at least another 5 years.
 












Fairly certain the Boss times would of been on bias plys.

They would have been yes, but my point is it was considered one of the fastest cars on the planet at the time. So running that same time on all season streets using only 281 cubic inches on a 1979 inspired 4 link rear suspension isn't all that bad. Don't look too far into it, it was just an example haha.
 






I'm late to the party. I hate it when cool things hide in sections of the forum you don't review.

I like to tinker. I like projects that are "unique" or rare. I like unique projects that have been done, so that you don't have to be the first to try and fail.

I don't like people that try to crap on everyone else's parade. Especially those who haven't tried the project. You see it in every forum. I've spent a lot of time reading the Stang forums as that's where most of the 5.4l swap info is. Same comments every time someone want's to play with a 5.4.

I'm not a racer. My '04 Ex 4.6l is stock and I like it. I accidently bought a 2000 Navi from an auction over a year ago. It was T-Boned but still drives. Just needs duct tape on the doors, good thing I'm in the South. Not saying it's legal. I can tell you, that my 2000 Navi get's it's ass up and moves when you gas it. I could play all day just giving it gas from a stop. I don't care about it's top end speed. My 4.6 doesn't get off the line like the Navi does with it's 5.4.

[MENTION=12558]boominXplorer[/MENTION], it's funny, I've got a 2000 Nav as well and that same damn cart that holds 1,500 lbs. but is too heavy itself to use in the yard loaded. I have a question for you. How did you pull the engine and trans out? I see you have a shop, I don't. But I do have garage space, just not enough to lift the body off. My plan, was to sawzall the front radiator support areas off and bring it straight out. The Navi itself is heading to scrap once I've parted it out as much as I can. But I've been wondering how to remove the drive train the easiest. Once it's out, it's in storage for a bit, was going to build my own stand using wood. Wife wood kill me if I did what you did to her cart.

I too have been wondering about the cluster. I'm putting mine in a 2003 Mountaineer. I think the first install, is going to be the 5.4 with the stock 5R55 trans, stock torque converter and the Mounty's PCM with a tune. I'll just have to baby it or grenade the trans.

My other thought, was using the 5.4 with the 4R100 trans. This would not only require using the Navi's PCM, but playing with the cluster, due to the PATS system. Though the tune may take care of this. I don't believe the '03 was can-bus, so that's a plus.

Good luck! I'm still a ways from mine. Just put the engine back in my '94 and want to redo the heads on the '03 Mounty to either keep the engine as a backup or sell it. But summer time, Navi's giving up the engine......

**Scribed**
[MENTION=203717]Tech By Trade[/MENTION] LSXKilr put a 5.4 SOHC in his 3rd gen as well.
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=398177
 












[MENTION=12558]boominXplorer[/MENTION], it's funny, I've got a 2000 Nav as well and that same damn cart that holds 1,500 lbs. but is too heavy itself to use in the yard loaded. I have a question for you. How did you pull the engine and trans out? I see you have a shop, I don't. But I do have garage space, just not enough to lift the body off. My plan, was to sawzall the front radiator support areas off and bring it straight out. The Navi itself is heading to scrap once I've parted it out as much as I can. But I've been wondering how to remove the drive train the easiest. Once it's out, it's in storage for a bit, was going to build my own stand using wood. Wife wood kill me if I did what you did to her cart.

Here's how this story goes. My shop is directly across the street from Pick n Pull junkyard so I watch daily what comes in and found my donor that way. The same day it was put in the yard I pulled it out so it was untouched when I started. I pulled the radiator and cut the core support to make it easy to pull with the trans. THE MAIN THING is you MUST pull the top half of the intake off to get it up and out. I tried like hell to get it out with the intake on and I couldn't get it out the drivers side mount. Once it was free of the mounts it was a breeze to hoist out with the gantry crain they have. I then put it in that cart and wheeled it a good 100 yards to the checkout. I got it out the front door of the yard in the cart and then walked across the street and grabbed my fork lift. I don't think the cart would of made the little dip out the parking lot with out something breaking. Funny thing is within 2 weeks after I had 2 tires blow out. Now the cart has 2 air-less tires on it.
 






I'm late to the party. I hate it when cool things hide in sections of the forum you don't review.

I like to tinker. I like projects that are "unique" or rare. I like unique projects that have been done, so that you don't have to be the first to try and fail.

I don't like people that try to crap on everyone else's parade. Especially those who haven't tried the project. You see it in every forum. I've spent a lot of time reading the Stang forums as that's where most of the 5.4l swap info is. Same comments every time someone want's to play with a 5.4.

I'm not a racer. My '04 Ex 4.6l is stock and I like it. I accidently bought a 2000 Navi from an auction over a year ago. It was T-Boned but still drives. Just needs duct tape on the doors, good thing I'm in the South. Not saying it's legal. I can tell you, that my 2000 Navi get's it's ass up and moves when you gas it. I could play all day just giving it gas from a stop. I don't care about it's top end speed. My 4.6 doesn't get off the line like the Navi does with it's 5.4.

[MENTION=12558]boominXplorer[/MENTION], it's funny, I've got a 2000 Nav as well and that same damn cart that holds 1,500 lbs. but is too heavy itself to use in the yard loaded. I have a question for you. How did you pull the engine and trans out? I see you have a shop, I don't. But I do have garage space, just not enough to lift the body off. My plan, was to sawzall the front radiator support areas off and bring it straight out. The Navi itself is heading to scrap once I've parted it out as much as I can. But I've been wondering how to remove the drive train the easiest. Once it's out, it's in storage for a bit, was going to build my own stand using wood. Wife wood kill me if I did what you did to her cart.

I too have been wondering about the cluster. I'm putting mine in a 2003 Mountaineer. I think the first install, is going to be the 5.4 with the stock 5R55 trans, stock torque converter and the Mounty's PCM with a tune. I'll just have to baby it or grenade the trans.

My other thought, was using the 5.4 with the 4R100 trans. This would not only require using the Navi's PCM, but playing with the cluster, due to the PATS system. Though the tune may take care of this. I don't believe the '03 was can-bus, so that's a plus.

Good luck! I'm still a ways from mine. Just put the engine back in my '94 and want to redo the heads on the '03 Mounty to either keep the engine as a backup or sell it. But summer time, Navi's giving up the engine......

**Scribed**
[MENTION=203717]Tech By Trade[/MENTION] LSXKilr put a 5.4 SOHC in his 3rd gen as well.
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=398177

If the truck is scrap, easiest way is to cut the rad support off and pull the upper intake to get to all the trans bolts; makes it easier to pull out.


Here's my 01 Navi back when I yanked mine.

0211142047_zps56378fe3.jpg
 






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