'97 Explorer Tranny solenoid digonosis | Page 2 | Ford Explorer Forums - Serious Explorations

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'97 Explorer Tranny solenoid digonosis

You initially said the clutch is in hold in D 1st and 2nd, but not in manual 1st and 2nd. So I asked if the clutch is what is in hold propeling the vehicle forward in D 1st and 2nd, when it's in manual 1st or 2nd and the clutch isn't in hold what is engaged to propel the vehicle forward? Or is this clutch what actually locks to propel the vehicle, or is it the coast clutch?

Here first you're saying it's in hold in D 1st and 2nd, then you say it's in coast in D 1st and 2nd. I assume it was a typo.

To answer your question in any forward drive position the forward clutch is engaged...In manual 1st and 2nd gear plus with the O/D off in 1st and 4th gear the coast clutch is also applied...In 4th gear with the O/D off and in 5th gear the direct clutch is also engaged...

This same direct clutch is engaged in reverse with the low/reverse band...This is when the forward clutch is not applied...

Remember this unit has 3 multi-plate clutches, 3 bands, 2 one way clutches and 3 planetaries...Lots of hardware to make the drive or reverse happen as seamlessly as possible...
 



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clutches

I should empasize that I have no first hand experience with the 5R55E. I'm only trying to intepret documentation available to me. My 2000 shop manual provides some additional data that may be helpful:

"The coast clutch is a multi-disc clutch made up of steel and friction plates.
 The coast clutch is applied with hydraulic pressure and disengaged by return springs and the exhaust of the hydraulic pressure.
 The coast clutch is housed in the front brake and coast clutch drum.
 The coast clutch is applied when the TCS switch is on, energizing SSD, and 5th gear operation is inhibited (4th gear only).
 The coast clutch is hydraulically applied when the transmission is in 2nd and 1st position.
 When applied, the coast clutch locks the input shaft to the front planetary carrier, thus preventing the one-way clutch from overrunning when the vehicle is coasting.
 This allows the use of engine compression to help slow the vehicle and provide engine braking."

The above is why I asked about symptoms with the TCIL On. The ATSG manual indicates that the coast clutch is also applied when the TC switch is on and 1st gear is engaged while transmission is in Drive position.

"The low/reverse one-way clutch is a sprag-type one-way clutch.
 The low/reverse one-way clutch holds the low/reverse brake drum and low/reverse planetary assembly to the case in 1st gear only.
 In all other gears the low/reverse one-way clutch overruns."

I think "low/reverse one-way clutch" above is what is called the "rear one-way clutch" is my ATSC manual. According to the ATSC manual the rear one-way clutch holds in 1st and 2nd gear when transmission is in Drive position and the vehicle is not coasting.

"The front one-way clutch is a sprag-type one-way clutch that is pressed into the center shaft.
 The front one-way clutch is driven by the ring gear of the front planetary carrier.
 The front one-way clutch holds and drives the outer splines of the center shaft in 1st, 3rd, and 4th gears.
 The front one-way clutch overruns during all coast operations and at all times in 2nd and 5th gear."

According to the ATSG manual the front one-way clutch holds and drives in 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th when transmission is in Drive, 1st and 2nd positions. The front one-way clutch overruns if vehicle coasting when 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th with TCIL Off and transmission in Drive. The front one-way clutch holds when torque converter is driving the transmission (not coasting) in 1st, 3rd and 4th with TCIL On and transmission in Drive position. The front one-way clutch holds anytime the transmission is in 1st or 2nd position (manual 1st and 2nd).

Since your vehicle moves forward in Manual 1st and 2nd then the front one-way clutch is holding. If you have engine breaking in Manual 1st and 2nd then the coast clutch is being applied and holding. If you have engine breaking with the transmission in 4th gear, the selector in Drive and the TCIL On then your SSD is energizing. Since your vehicle will not move forward in Drive 1st or 2nd the low/reverse one-way clutch may not be holding. You posted that you can bring the vehicle up to speed using Manual 1st and 2nd and then switch to Drive and one of the upper gears (3rd, 4th or 5th) will engage. Since Manual 2nd works then your intermediate band should be functional and 3rd gear may engage in Drive since it also uses the intermediate band. If 5th gear engages then your front band should be functional which is also used by 2nd gear in Drive. Since Manual 1st works then your low/reverse band should be functional and Reverse should work. Your forward clutch should be functional since it is applied in all forward gears. Your direct clutch should be functional if reverse works. I suspect the rear one-way clutch is not holding when driven.
 






There is one thing that I believe you missed, manual 2nd is actually 3 gear in the 5R55E. That is the reason he can get a high mile per hour in manual 2nd. This can be verified in the ATSG manual on page 5 and other places.
 






forgot that!

There is one thing that I believe you missed, manual 2nd is actually 3 gear in the 5R55E. That is the reason he can get a high mile per hour in manual 2nd. This can be verified in the ATSG manual on page 5 and other places.

You're correct. I forgot that manual 2nd is actually 3rd speed. 2nd speed is achieved by engaging 1st gear and overdrive (2.47 * 0.75 = 1.86). I didn't realize that until I did a WOT test in 2nd position and exceeded 90mph before achieving redline.

Anyway, that means that if the engine RPMs drop when upshifting from 2nd position to Drive with the TCIL On then the transmission has shifted from 3rd speed to 4th speed. If you switch the TCIL Off then the transmission can upshift to 5th speed (overdrive) showing that the front band is functional.
 






2000StreetRod, your diagnostics are good, now you need feed back from ( gts ) as to what happens with (TCIL) OD light is on or off.
 






Now we're getting a little somewhere. Initially before all this started happening I thought this was a 4 speed and that 3rd and reverse were the issues. After doing some research I found it's a 5 speeds and since I checked the codes and the only code I found come up bad was 4th gear improper ratio (or something like that) and that manual 2nd is actually 3rd gear that's making more sense. I was told by the guy at the tranny shop that 3rd gear and reverse are both run off the same clutch and that clutch was bad. However it's starting to look like that's not the case if manual 2nd is actually 3rd gear.

Honestly I haven't tried running it with the OD switch off to give input on that. I'm assuming that TCIL stands for Torque Converter Indicator Lamp? Or the OD light being on or off?

"The low/reverse one-way clutch is a sprag-type one-way clutch.
 The low/reverse one-way clutch holds the low/reverse brake drum and low/reverse planetary assembly to the case in 1st gear only.
 In all other gears the low/reverse one-way clutch overruns."


So according to this the rear one way clutch only activates in 1st gear. I assume that due to it's name it's also activated in reverse? In any which case this should only affect 1st/2nd gear operation and I'm having problems in 4th as well so it wouldn't be likely this is my problem?

“The front one-way clutch is a sprag-type one-way clutch that is pressed into the center shaft.
The front one-way clutch is driven by the ring gear of the front planetary carrier.
 The front one-way clutch holds and drives the outer splines of the center shaft in 1st, 3rd, and 4th gears.
 The front one-way clutch overruns during all coast operations and at all times in 2nd and 5th gear.”


So if I'm reading this correctly the front one way clutch drives the vehicle in 1st, 3rd, and 4th gears. However if the transmission is manually shifted or OD is off the coast clutch is engaged bypassing this clutch all together. So that would make the vehicle move forward in manual 1st and 2nd. Once I get up to speed and shift into D, 4th doesn’t work because that clutch isn’t engaged anymore. And that clutch isn’t what drives 5th gear so once I get up to speed and into 5th it works fine again. So all that being it the case it sounds like the front one way clutch is likely the culprit?

Is my logic sound on this or am I missing something?
 






Tcil

. . . I was told by the guy at the tranny shop that 3rd gear and reverse are both run off the same clutch and that clutch was bad. However it's starting to look like that's not the case if manual 2nd is actually 3rd gear.

Reverse: direct clutch applied, front one-way clutch Hold for driven and overrun for coast

3rd in Drive: forward clutch applied, front one-way clutch Hold for driven and overrun for coast except when TCIL On

Manual 2nd: forward clutch applied, coast clutch applied, front one-way clutch Hold

Honestly I haven't tried running it with the OD switch off to give input on that. I'm assuming that TCIL stands for Torque Converter Indicator Lamp? Or the OD light being on or off?
TCIL > Transmission Control Indicator Lamp
 






Reverse: direct clutch applied, front one-way clutch Hold for driven and overrun for coast

3rd in Drive: forward clutch applied, front one-way clutch Hold for driven and overrun for coast except when TCIL On

Manual 2nd: forward clutch applied, coast clutch applied, front one-way clutch Hold

So it still is sounding like the front one way clutch is my problem?

TCIL > Transmission Control Indicator Lamp

So still the OD off light is what this is referring to then correct?

Where is a good place to buy this clutch and a rebuild kit? Anything else a guy should replace while I'm that far in? How deep in the transmission is this clutch?

Also does anyone have the factory drivetrain manual? Which is better for step by step rebuild instructions? The ATSG manual or factory Ford manual?
 






Based on the gears that I think you have my opinion would be the rear one way clutch. Also this is assuming that the valve body is ok. If you complete all tests with OD on and OD off and you can verify that 4th and 5th gear are there and that the torque converter locks up, then one could assume that the valve body is working correctly. Personally, I wouldn't buy any parts until the trans is disassembled to be sure of the actual hard parts that have failed. Even if a clutch is working the plates may be badly worn and need replaced. You could spend a lot more for a master rebuild kit, when only a soft parts or seal kit is needed, plus the hard part that failed.
 






So I know the TC is locking and that 5th gear is there. It’s looking like 4th is the one missing.

I’ve looked at the valve body and checked all the solenoids. As best as I can tell the solenoids are all functioning properly.

I plan on tearing it down before I start ordering a bunch of parts. Just trying to find a good place and an idea of what the costs are going to be.

Please give me your logic on why you think the rear one way (Low/Reverse one way clutch) is the culprit? The way I’m reading this the ONLY place this clutch is activating is in 1st (which would include D 1st and 2nd and I’m assuming reverse). It is overrun in 4th which is the first thing I noticed not working so if this clutch was the culprit it wouldn’t affect 4th and I’d still have 4th gear.

My logic based on what’s been explained here is the front one way clutch is activated in D 1st, 3rd, and 4th. This would be why I have no forward motion when taking off from a stop in D however do have forward motion once I get up to speed and it shifts into 5th. However in manual 1st and 2nd (actually 3rd) the coast clutch locks the two shafts together that this one way clutch engages normally which is why I have forward motion in Manual 1st and 2nd. I’m assuming that this clutch is also engaged normally in Reverse which is why I have no reverse either. Is my logic off here?
 






I forgot the fact that reverse doesn't work, therefor my last post doesn't apply.
 






OK thanks PopRichie77. Guys thank so much for your help on this! I really do appreciate it. Auto trannys and rear ends are pretty much the only things I haven't gotten into much and this has really helped me understand at lest this transmission. I'm going to try to pull it this weekend and start tearing it down. Anyone have a good recomendation on where to find a good manual for it? Thinking of just looking to see if anyone is selling them on Ebay. Also as I asked before how is the factory manual for working on these vs the ATSG manual? I know my factory manual for my F-250 is pretty detailed on the tranny in it. Is it the same for this Explorer?
 






front one-way clutch not likely

Since your vehicle functions in Manual 1st and Manual 2nd which requires the front one-way clutch to hold it is unlikely to be the source of your problems. I agree with PopRichie77 that the rear one-way clutch (not holding in Drive 1st and 2nd) is probably the source of your troubles. Replacing the rear one-way clutch requires almost complete disassembly of the transmission. Some special tools may be needed for bearing installation and clearance checking when reassembling the transmission. The photo in the following link provided by ranger7ltr gives a breakout of the parts involved. The rear one-way clutch is in the third row down of components left of the case assembly. A4LD/4R44E/4R55E/5R55E Transmission Picture

The ATSG Manual is good with lots of drawings but in my opinion is targeted more for those experienced with rebuilding automatic transmissions. At least one forum member has successfully rebuilt his 5R55E using a master rebuild kit and a rebuilt torque converter. See DIY 5r55e rebuild....Info?

Frankly, it's something I would not feel comfortable attempting. I'll check my shop manual (it's on my other computer) and compare it to my ASTG Manual. I don't know about parts sources but you might try searching the forum because I recall several threads that mention parts suppliers.
 






You can get the manual and all parts on Ebay if you so choose. There are many places that sell parts and the manual, just google 5R55E parts.
 


















shop vs ATSG manual

I compared the transmission assembly shop manual drawings with the ATSG manual drawings. They are almost identical except the shop manual contains drawings for some special Ford tools used in the assembly that are not shown in the ATSG manual. The level of detail for the text is comparable. The shop manual contains a lot of diagnostic information but it requires using an electronic test fixture with special adapters. The advantage of getting the shop manual is that it covers engine, transmission, brakes, suspension, body, heating, cooling, electrical, etc. It does not include wiring diagrams.
 






I'm 100% sure 5th is functioning. When I drove it 100 miles to my parents where my dad has a shop and a lift to work on it I'd manual shift it through 1st and 2nd, then shift into D for 5th while cruising.

According to what I'm reading in this thread the coast clutch is a friction and steel clutch pack that locks the input shaft to the intermediate shaft. This would normally be the function of the front one way clutch under power and it would overrun during coast. So with the front one way clutch not working the coast clutch is picking up the slack in manual shifting. At least this is what I'm understanding from what's been posted from the manual.

At this point if the tranny isn't working I can't really hurt it much by trying a rebuild on my own. Not to mention I'm a very experienced mechanic, just not on auto trannys. I was a motorcycle tech for about 8 years, and have built pretty much every aspect of my 800hp diesel including complete engine build, injectors, turbo system fab etc. Only thing I didn't really do is build the tranny. On that one I wanted someone who really knows the trannys and how to build them build it because of the power I'm running through it. This one being a stock rebuild I'm not so worried about it.

By the time you read this you should have a PM with my e-mail for that manual. Thanks again so much for all your help!
 









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