97 v8 tranny swap to 01 HELP

[CDW6212R]

Thanks Jamie, DTRS, I couldn't name the sensor. Chris replied and also agreed that minor changes happened in 98, and that included the DTRS.

He agreed that using all of the different 97 parts on the 01 trans was the thing to do. He didn't know if the 98-01 DTRS had different signals, so changing the part would be an answer. If the rewiring that section posted is right, then someone did the research for that and that should work.

But the bottom line is that anything that is on the 97 trans needs to be in the truck. Use the entire wiring from the 97, and any sensor which is different from the 01 model. Ignore any extra sensors that may be on the 01 trans.

I would likely swap the DTRS and that will probably be the only change. Clean them up and take your time with the swapping of the harness and DTRS. It won't take very long. Regards,

 

[Stanleyjd]

ok sounds good i will try to transfer the sensors tomorrow when i have time. as for the seals on the tranny i have the pan gasket what other seal do i need to ask for when i get the rear main seal? i need to have everything ready to roll for my friend when he comes back to help me he doenst have a lot of time thanks

 

[Glacier991]

Evening all. The best advice is to use all 97 electronics including DTR, and solenoids and EPC. I understand that you can change pinouts as 410 has mentioned. I need to do some research but you may need to utilize the earlier VB as well... I'll do my homework and see. There may be some alignment pin bushing issues if that is required.

 

[Glacier991]

Ok.. you are ok with the newer VB...

You should stay with the old harness and solenoids. The newer harness will be a wire frame, the old was loose wires. (You CAN use a newer solenoid but will need to solder on connectors for it.... may be worth the additional line pressure it offers)

Re pinning connectors, should that be necessary is covered here:

http://www.tccoa.com/articles/tranny/transmission/page16.shtml

I recommend reading everything Jerry W writes. He is the ultimate authority on 4R70W's, but he has not written on some of the newer stuff. (4R75W parts etc).

Maybe this winter I will find some time in my life to push the Diary forward.

 

[CDW6212R]

Chris, unless there was some kind of logic change made in the functioning of the valve body, the electronic controls should be the same.

Recall that each shift is a simple matter of two signal wires going to the two solenoids, those either being off or on. The DTR sensor is the communication between the PCM and valve body. As section has suggested, someone has evidently done the research to be able to just rewire the 98-01 DTR. That would support the thought that the PCM signals are the same for controlling each year of 4R70W.

I would think that the valve body and its solenoids are a match, and other model year parts wouldn't be best. Meaning that those 2001 low mileage solenoids, and EPC, are right for the 2001 valve body as well as the trans.

The seals(rear main seal, front trans seal, plus rear trans seal) that I mentioned are those between the engine and trans, you cannot change them without removing either the trans or engine. So it's always a very good idea to replace them anytime an engine or trans comes out. Regards,

 

[CDW6212R]

Wait Chris, the harness that you mention is the internal trans harness. Why change that to the older harness?

Okay, that link above does say that the actual case connector wires are different. That is just what section was referring to. The 2001 internal harness matches the 2001 valve body and solenoids. Why not leave the whole 2001 trans intact, except for pulling the pan to change filter and check for debris?

With that diagram from that link, swapping the wires going into the trans connector is the real answer.

 

[CDW6212R]

So, section, did you or anyone else change the DTR sensor? If the connector for those is the same, leave that 2001 part in place also.

Stanley, did you notice if the connector of each DTR sensor is the same? That's the large black device on the left side of the trans, where a shifter used to go.

Read that link above carefully. Removing the wires from the connector and placing them in the proper new holes is very quick to do. Just take your time and follow the diagram in that link.

To remove the wires from any Ford connector, look down into the connector, there is always a plastic locking piece which must come out first. That locking part is almost always bright red, rarely it will be white or light blue. It is always a thin plastic odd shaped part which is pushed/pried out from either the side or back of the connector.

Exterior wire connectors should all have rubber inserts in the back of each connector half, they keep out dirt and moisture. Pry those out to begin with, the trick tool is a tiny pick or screwdriver. Once you get that locking part out, likely bright red, look down inside and notice the tiny little plastic tangs which are right next to each wire connector. There is always a little plastic arm/tang/lever which you push sideways with the pick tool. Gently push that arm/tang/lever sideways, and that wire/connector will slip right out the back.

Be sure to write down where the wires started at, and the new location where you need them to go. That is a must in case you have to do something else, get distracted, or forget. Take your time with that. The whole job could be done in under five minutes, so don't try to do it in five minutes. Allow lots of time to do it right, a few extra minutes spent being sure is worth it. Good luck,

 

[Stanleyjd]

I am posting my convo with glacier for others to see

GangsterSinner (9:41:20 PM): hey
Glacier991 (9:39:39 PM): good evening
GangsterSinner (9:43:57 PM): hey its stan off the explorer form websit with the tranny issue
GangsterSinner (9:44:03 PM): how are you?
Glacier991 (9:42:03 PM): I'm good and everyone who IM's me from the site is the one with a trans problem
Glacier991 (9:43:48 PM): What is your Q ?
GangsterSinner (9:47:37 PM): hahah i am the 97 making the switch with the tranny to the 01
Glacier991 (9:44:49 PM): Ah the 4R70W
GangsterSinner (9:47:57 PM): some of you abervations i am not so famiular
Glacier991 (9:45:19 PM): How can I help?
GangsterSinner (9:48:36 PM): i am only 22 i got a friend helping that knows more but his time i limted and i have to have everything ready for him
GangsterSinner (9:48:48 PM): let me copy and past them
Glacier991 (9:46:04 PM): ok.
GangsterSinner (9:50:54 PM): whats VB DTR EPC and i know about the gasket on the pan of the tranny but where is the other located?
Glacier991 (9:49:53 PM): VB refers to the valve body. It is the "brains" of the transmission.

DTR is the transmission range sensor located where the shifter shaft enters the case, the odd shaped blackplastic things with a harness connector on it. EPC is the Electronic Pressure Control Solenoid.

There ire two gaskets associated with the valve body, one on each side of a steel plate known as the separator plate.
Glacier991 (9:49:59 PM): ire = are
GangsterSinner (9:54:32 PM): ok i follow everything th valve body thats after i take the pan off there are 2 more gaskets or seals inside?
GangsterSinner (9:55:57 PM): the valve body is the part that looks like a maze close to that?
Glacier991 (9:53:24 PM): yes.... sometimes called "worktracks"
Glacier991 (9:53:58 PM): when you remove it you will find one gasket as it comes off.... the steel plate that stays with it, is held in place by a few bolts and when it comes off there is another gasket there too.
Glacier991 (9:54:13 PM): worm tracks... sorry typo
GangsterSinner (9:57:23 PM): oh ok before i get to that maze part
GangsterSinner (10:01:31 PM): ok do i have to go past the part where the ballbearing are in the tranny and any sugestions not to losing the placeement of them? and the 2 seals are the pan and the one between those plates on the valve body or are there 2 seals in there with the valve body?
Glacier991 (10:00:02 PM): There is a pan gasket and 2 VB gaskets... the easy way to not lose placement of the checkballs is to carefully remove the steel plate and not disturb the VB ... the check balls will stay where they belong as you replace the gasket and separator plate.
GangsterSinner (10:07:16 PM): ok
GangsterSinner (10:08:32 PM): i think i follow you i just got off the phone with my friend i got a little less than a week to prepare. so i should flip the tranny upside down and not sideway
GangsterSinner (10:09:55 PM): and while i am in there i guess i can clean the pan and magnet and replace the filter and pan gasket in addition to those 2 other seals on the valve body correct?
Glacier991 (10:29:40 PM): yep, and upside down is best
GangsterSinner (11:27:10 PM): thanks
Glacier991 (11:24:54 PM): my pleasure
Glacier991 (11:25:08 PM): I prefer to do it on the site so more can benefit.

 

[Stanleyjd]

i have now transfered the dtrs sensor over an easy swap. i am having trouble getting sensor for the vb out. i took the pan off and was fiddling with it but i dont want to break it. what do you all suggest? oh and btw there was something loose inside the 01 tranny it looked like the shape of a bober with a ruber washer halfway around the round part and a loose rubber round washer and a round piece of plastic like half inch or so straight tube or something like that what is that and what should i do with it. it was right near the dip stick location when i took the pan off upside down?

 

[CDW6212R]

That free object is the factory dip stick hole plug. All transmissions have them when made, the dipstick is pushed down into the trans, and that plug just stays in the pan. Keep it for storage of any Ford trans. Put in in the dipstick hole of the trans.

If that 2001 trans really only has 9000 miles on it I would not touch anything if not needed. I do not like to ever swap valve body's, not ever. Those are all very particularly matched to each transmission. As changes occur over the years, a VB from one trans will not always work the exact same way in another trans. Changing a valve body should only be done if absolutely necessary, like if the old one is rusted up, heat damaged etc.

By the example of section it seems fairly clear that the entire transmission is functionally the same from 96-01. I trust Chris countless times more than myself or others about the early Explorer trannies. But these 4R70W's are extremely well developed by Ford, these were born from the 1980 AOD trans.

I would not disturb the valve body, nor any of the solenoids. From what section suggested, his own truck experience, and that link given, it seems to be very simple to only swap the wires in the one wire connector going down into the trans. That is where the wiring is going to the valve body inside.

Good luck, I wish you well.

 

[Stanleyjd]

yeah i took out the factory plug for the dip stick and that metal tube and the other round washer. the fluid looked brand new its was BRIGHT red. i changed the filter kept the stock tranny pan gasket it was nicer than the one that came with the filter and i got the wires switched around. there was 2 extra power wires so i put then in the 2 spots not being used in the 2001 tranny. my friend will be here next thursday to put the tranny in. thanks everyone for your help i will let you know how it goes. i will may have more questions later cuz this truck has other issues. you all have been very helpful and i am very thankful. i was sacred for a little bit about this tranny and how to get rid of it and find and get another which is much more head ache and the 01 is better anyways

 

[CDW6212R]

That sounds very good. These 4R70W's are very good transmissions when taken care of. The V6 transmissions are fragile in comparison, those blow out gaskets all by themselves for example. That's another topic, be happy that you have the 302 etc. Regards,

 

[Glacier991]

The PCM for 98 and up DTR's uses different logic.... so if you are putting something newer into a 97, you MUST use the 97 DTR.

Don, the reason I recommended replacing the internal harness is that it is considered a good idea to use 97 solenoids (essential to use the torque convertor solenoid) and if you mix and match you will have an odd setup... best to stay with the 97 wire harness in this case in my opinion.

 

[Stanleyjd]

yeah the dtrs was a different connection so i switched them

 

[CDW6212R]

I understand the switch of the DTR sensors, but the rest is still a matched set of parts. The 2001 trans, valve body, solenoids, and torque converter are a set, and should be almost indistinguishable from the 96-01 versions. I think that we are nit-picking about much of this. The wiring changes of 1998 and the changed DTRS is obvious to do, the rest(internal) should be a wash. I'd want to keep the 9,000 mile transmission all intact. Regards,

 

[Stanleyjd]

sounds good. never hurts to be safe than sorry

 

[Stanleyjd]

ok so the tranny is in and it goes foward and reverse but now it drives like **** it wont accelerate pase 1500 rpms and engine sounds like ****. many plugs were fouled up and i did a tune up replaced all plugs and wires same result. the truck wasnt like this before. there is a check engine light my friend will bring home his computer from work to diagnoss it. the friend that helped my said it my be an o2 sensor he noticed one was banged up a little. and yes the computer has been reset. does any one know what this is?

 

[CDW6212R]

Yes, double check all of the wiring and connections around the engine and trans. Get the codes soon, that can help a bunch. Parts stores should do that at no charge. Regards,

 

[Stanleyjd]

i forgot to mention the overdrive light keeps flashing

 

[CDW6212R]

Yes, hopefully it is related and a simple correction.