98 Mercury Mountaineer no crank no start

[No1bigfish1980]

Hello all I've been reading a lot to try a trouble shoot the issue I'm having but just not the same issue as most I read. My 98 Mercury Mountaineer just decided not to crank or start just clicks one morning. Here is a list of what I tried/checked

Battery, terminals, connections, cables=Good
Fuel pump=Good
The alarm isn't flashing fast and I tried both keys.
Tried starting in neutral
Checked relays and fuses-I don't have a solenoid on my firewall to check as mine is on the starter.
I removed the starter relay and put a jump cable in it and was able to start the vehicle over 2 times this way, now it won't even crank the starter. When I try starting the vehicle I hear the relay clicking when the key is turned.
Checked wiring on the starter have 12v coming from the battery, but nothing from the relay wire. I figured I have a bad wire from relay down to the starter I ran a wire from battery to starter to see if that would work and I get nothing. The strange most confusing thing is I can take that wire connect it to my starter and put it to my battery charger, put the charger on start mode and it will crank and turn over the vehicle. After I was able to start it this way I tried running a #10 wire down to the starter thinking the #14 wire I ran previously was pulling enough power to turn it over, When I connected the #10 wire to starter and touched it to the battery terminal I got nothing. I don't know what else to do any suggestions?

 

[Mesozoic]

Not sure, but with the debugging you've done I would venture a safe bet that the starter is done. You sure the battery is not cutting out when you pull starting amps from it?

 

[No1bigfish1980]

I have good voltage at starter and when try to crank I have 12v at it, I'm not getting anything from the other coming from my relay, but tried a jumper wire thinking I had a short or cut wire and I still get nothing

 

[Mesozoic]

I have good voltage at starter and when try to crank I have 12v at it, I'm not getting anything from the other coming from my relay, but tried a jumper wire thinking I had a short or cut wire and I still get nothing

The starter solenoid activation signal (field coil driver of the starter relay) should be high (12V) during crank. Is that not happening?

 

[No1bigfish1980]

The cable coming from the battery to solenoid on starter has a constant 12v, the other wire coming from the relay has nothing even when I turn the key. So I tried running a jump wire from starter to battery to see if that would start it and I get nothing, but I can run the same wire to my battery charger/jump box and it will crank and start the vehicle. Could it be the solenoid is bad on the starter and when I run the wire from battery to starter its still not enough power to crank it, but has plenty of power when connected to battery charger/jumper box?

 

[koda2000]

Sounds like a bad solenoid and/or bad starter motor. On GM vehicles it's easy to replace the solenoid, but replacement Ford solenoids seem to be harder go find. If it were me I'd just get a re-manufactured starter motor with a lifetime warranty. When you run a wire from the battery POS to the small terminal on the starter and nothing happens the solenoid is not energizing. It should at least click loudly.

 

[Mesozoic]

It kind of sounds like the ignition switch might be the culprit. If the relay coil driver wire to the starter solenoid isn't getting 12V when the key is turned to the crank position, that would point to an ignition switch failure. Maybe try jiggling the switch a bit, but I wouldn't hesitate to get a new one from Ford or Motorcraft if the truck's got 180,000 miles or more.

 

[No1bigfish1980]

It kind of sounds like the ignition switch might be the culprit. If the relay coil driver wire to the starter solenoid isn't getting 12V when the key is turned to the crank position, that would point to an ignition switch failure. Maybe try jiggling the switch a bit, but I wouldn't hesitate to get a new one from Ford or Motorcraft if the truck's got 180,000 miles or more.

When I turn the key the ignition switch clicks the relay on, but once the relay clicks there is nothing being sent down to the starter from relay. I believe the issue falls between the relay and the starter not sending the 12v to crank and start the motor. If the solenoid on the starter was bad I would get 12v on the solenoid when I turn the key, but I don't get anything. I can jump start the solenoid with a jump box, but running a wire to my battery to get it to turn over does nothing. Maybe its a week solenoid on the starter and I'm just over thinking it cant be the issue.

 

[Mesozoic]

When I turn the key the ignition switch clicks the relay on, but once the relay clicks there is nothing being sent down to the starter from relay. I believe the issue falls between the relay and the starter not sending the 12v to crank and start the motor. If the solenoid on the starter was bad I would get 12v on the solenoid when I turn the key, but I don't get anything. I can jump start the solenoid with a jump box, but running a wire to my battery to get it to turn over does nothing. Maybe its a week solenoid on the starter and I'm just over thinking it cant be the issue.

If the ignition switch is activating the relay's field coil, but the relay is not delivering 12V to the starter solenoid, then perhaps the relay may have failed. My user manual for my '00 Mountaineer suggests to swap relays out with other similar ones in the power box (like the A/C relay) to see if that solves the problem. Replacing the relay would be a much simpler job, for sure.

 

[No1bigfish1980]

If the ignition switch is activating the relay's field coil, but the relay is not delivering 12V to the starter solenoid, then perhaps the relay may have failed. My user manual for my '00 Mountaineer suggests to swap relays out with other similar ones in the power box (like the A/C relay) to see if that solves the problem. Replacing the relay would be a much simpler job, for sure.

Relays have been replaced, tested, and retested

 

[Mesozoic]

If we start at the ignition switch, we see that it's responsible for activating the starter relay when the key position is on crank. If the starter relay is not activating, then there must be a problem between the ignition switch and the relay, or the relay is defective. Since the relay has been replaced, suffice to say that the ignition switch must be culprit. At least that's how I would look at it. How many miles on the ignition switch?

 

[No1bigfish1980]

If we start at the ignition switch, we see that it's responsible for activating the starter relay when the key position is on crank. If the starter relay is not activating, then there must be a problem between the ignition switch and the relay, or the relay is defective. Since the relay has been replaced, suffice to say that the ignition switch must be culprit. At least that's how I would look at it. How many miles on the ignition switch?

Around 180000 miles on vehicle. I tested the ignition switch and checked the wiring. When I turn the ignition switch on it clicks the relay on, but nothing is being sent from relay down to starter.

 

[koda2000]

Around 180000 miles on vehicle. I tested the ignition switch and checked the wiring. When I turn the ignition switch on it clicks the relay on, but nothing is being sent from relay down to starter.

And you also said that if you run power directly from the battery to the solenoid nothing happens. Doing that bypasses everything (switch, relay wiring) so the problem has to be with the solenoid/starter.

 

[No1bigfish1980]

And you also said that if you run power directly from the battery to the solenoid nothing happens. Doing that bypasses everything (switch, relay wiring) so the problem has to be with the solenoid/starter.

I would agree it was the solenoid/starter, but if it were there still would be 12v coming from the relay to activate it and there's nothing. Also I tried two different wires sizes 12 and 8 from battery to solenoid thinking if that crank and turned it over I'd just put a push button in to start the vehicle. Those wires didn't work, but when I hook them up to my battery charger/jump box it turned over the starter and started the vehicle. Which is confusing why it'll work one way and not the other

 

[koda2000]

I would agree it was the solenoid/starter, but if it were there still would be 12v coming from the relay to activate it and there's nothing. Also I tried two different wires sizes 12 and 8 from battery to solenoid thinking if that crank and turned it over I'd just put a push button in to start the vehicle. Those wires didn't work, but when I hook them up to my battery charger/jump box it turned over the starter and started the vehicle. Which is confusing why it'll work one way and not the other

What you're saying doesn't make any sense. If your battery and it's connections are good and you run a wire from it to the starter solenoid's terminal and nothing happens, but it does when you use a battery charger, then either battery is no good or your connections are no good (POS and NEG cables). You keep talking about volts, but volts are not what makes your engine turn over. You need Amps to do that. I wish I lived near you. If I did I'm sure I could identify and fix your problem in under 5 minutes.

 

[No1bigfish1980]

What you're saying doesn't make any sense. If your battery and it's connections are good and you run a wire from it to the starter solenoid's terminal and nothing happens, but it does when you use a battery charger, then either battery is no good or your connections are no good (POS and NEG cables). You keep talking about volts, but volts are not what makes your engine turn over. You need Amps to do that. I wish I lived near you. If I did I'm sure I could identify and fix your problem in under 5 minutes.

From everything I checked and tested, I will agree with you its not making any sense on what's happening but its what's happening. I think its something so simple, but I'm over looking it. Or its a combination of a bad wire from relay and bad solenoid. I ordered a new starter online will install when I get it and see what happens from there.

 

[bobflood]

+1 to what koda said. You can measure volts but not be able to pass enough amperage to work the starter. Most likely battery to starter connection or battery itself is bad. If you haven't already, look for corrosion inside the battery cables where they leave the battery. Good luck.

 

[jester1023]

I've vaguely read through most of the posts on this thread. The starter is cooked. It's very common. Nobody wants this to be the case because it's a pain in the ass to replace...well, in the rust belt it is. I just changed my Wife's starter and I'm very experienced with auto mechanics. One bolt rounded, the other broke off at the head. I ended up using both sets of external screw extractors from O'Reilly and lots of heat with Blaster.

The culprit is normally the little exposed jumper from solenoid to starter. It gets corroded down to just a few strands, then burns through...causing the failure. Of course I assume this is a 5.0 Mounty. If so, this is a great time to fix the manifold leak...if you have one.