A small preview of what's to come in the following months. | Ford Explorer Forums - Serious Explorations

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A small preview of what's to come in the following months.

Here are a few pictures from a mini-project I completed the other day. It is a Generation 3 Eaton M90 off of a Thunderbird Supercoupe. When I picked it up it was in somewhat poor condition with the seals going and questionable bearings because of it, and then couple that with the grey epoxy paint peeling on the outside. I didn't really want to refinish this blower as much as I ended up doing but it sort of snowballed a bit once I dug into it. I ended up doing a full rebuild with new bearings and seals, the port, and of course had snout and case powdercoated a dark blue, and polished the midplate.

This will be going onto my 02 X Sport V6 once I get the G8 back up and running for the warm weather. The plan is to run 8-9 psi which will keep the blower right in its maximum efficiency range. Even though it may not look like it at first glance this will be a junkyard build. Pay no attention to those bolts sticking out in the last pic showing the finished port job. All of the bolts will be getting replaced with newer better looking ones, and the bottom two will be shortened and sealed. Enjoy the pics.
 

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The old girl cleaned up really nice!
Its going to be fun to see the direction your build takes.
 






Junkyard? Looks brand new to me.
 






Junkyard? Looks brand new to me.

Well a junkyard build budget, but it may not appear like a junkyard build in the end to some. I plan to only have right at a grand into the entire project once done. So far I have only spent about $600 in total and have all of the "big ticket" items taken care of. About the only other major items I need are the vacuum bypass valve. Other than that it is just small bs fittings and bolts. If I decide to build an intercooler for this, which I am still debating even bothering with, then it will push me just a little bit above the $1k mark once I have gotten the core and the pump.

Trust me, if I could have kept it simple and just left the original grey epoxy coating on the blower I would have. But, it was flaking off pretty bad so a refinish was in order. So the options were paint it, which just isn't durable enough for me, or have it stripped and powdercoated. Money I didn't want to spend but at least the blower isn't going to oxidize anytime soon.
 






I have a blower off of a '91 Supercoupe sitting in my garage! Planned on adapting it and pulley for 6-8lbs of boost, but there is no pretty way of mounting it and I haven't really had a lot of time.

Are you going to use the A-A intercooler from the Supercoupe? I think I have one sitting at my dads house... Or will it run cool enough at the PSI you plan to pulley it for?
 






I have a blower off of a '91 Supercoupe sitting in my garage! Planned on adapting it and pulley for 6-8lbs of boost, but there is no pretty way of mounting it and I haven't really had a lot of time.

Are you going to use the A-A intercooler from the Supercoupe? I think I have one sitting at my dads house... Or will it run cool enough at the PSI you plan to pulley it for?

If I decide to bother intercooling it then I will be doing a small air to water one inside the lower manifold I will be building for the project. The manifold I plan to build will be a bit taller than some so that I will have the room if the time comes.
 






intercooler

You could probably get by without an intercooler running 6-8 psi boost. However, it is good to plan for one since many members end up increasing the boost at a later date. The knock sensor retard will help protect the engine. I'll be following the develop of the lower manifold. Hopefully, you'll be able to close the hood.

Do you have an estimate of how much horsepower is required to turn the blower? I think an electric clutch controlled supercharger is a desirable configuration. I determined from dyno testing that my A/C compressor clutch can handle at least 20 hp.
 






You could probably get by without an intercooler running 6-8 psi boost. However, it is good to plan for one since many members end up increasing the boost at a later date. The knock sensor retard will help protect the engine. I'll be following the develop of the lower manifold. Hopefully, you'll be able to close the hood.

Do you have an estimate of how much horsepower is required to turn the blower? I think an electric clutch controlled supercharger is a desirable configuration. I determined from dyno testing that my A/C compressor clutch can handle at least 20 hp.

I have done this type of stuff in a professional capacity before so I am sure that closing the hood will not become an issue. You can get by without an IC at the 8-9psi mark but if I get bored during the build and want to machine a few more parts then I will go ahead and do an AWIC. It will not be absolutely needed for the amount of boost I will be running but it is nice to have an AWIC system in place to keep heat soak to a minimum and keep IAT's in check. Knock retard does help keep the engine together when IAT's skyrocket but you are also leaving power on the table when allowing them to get that high. I will not be turning the boost up on this beyond 9psi at a later date for a few reasons. First is that I am not trying to make any sort of speedracer V6 Explorer or put much money into it. And also once you go past 9 psi with the Eaton M90 on the 4.0 you start dropping off in efficiency and hp gained per psi boost will decrease as well.

How much power is required to turn the blower depends on what RPM and pressure you spin it to. I am attaching a few sheets below that illustrates what the power requirements are for an Eaton M90 blower as well as quite a bit of other data. The main sheet you will need is the M90 power one for your figuring purposes. Then it is just a simple (Crank Pulley diameter/Snout Pulley Diameter) * Engine RPM's at shift point = Blower RPM calculation to see how fast you will be spinning the blower.
 

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thanks for the graphs!

Thanks for posting those graphs. If I read them correctly, 10,000 blower rpm at 5 psi requires 20 hp and provides 430 cfm. I think I've read in the past that there's about 100 bhp per 150 cfm. If the blower pulley is sized for 10,000 rpm for 6,000 engine rpm (1.67:1) then I wonder how much boost (if any) would be available at 2,000 engine rpm. I thought that blowers were supposed to increase low to mid engine speed torque.
 






Thanks for posting those graphs. If I read them correctly, 10,000 blower rpm at 5 psi requires 20 hp and provides 430 cfm. I think I've read in the past that there's about 100 bhp per 150 cfm. If the blower pulley is sized for 10,000 rpm for 6,000 engine rpm (1.67:1) then I wonder how much boost (if any) would be available at 2,000 engine rpm. I thought that blowers were supposed to increase low to mid engine speed torque.

Positive displacement blowers, like the Eaton roots M90, develop almost full boost and torque right off idle. Great type of blower to get a heavy truck moving.

Your first two calculations are correct. The CFM flow thing depends on what CFM the engine was able to move in stock form so I tend to shy away from that as a guide because power is not made by just airflow but air density as well which is not taken into account with just CFM. A better rough idea to use is that most Eaton blowers gain in the middle teens for rwhp/lb of boost. Figure for anywhere from 12-16rwhp per psi of boost assuming a proper tune with the right fueling and airflow metering mods having been performed. The reason why you see so many people making crap for power on RPCaster's Eaton kits, for example, is because they try to run them on super low boost with no upgrade to the fuel injectors, pump, or MAFS; let alone a proper ECU tune. If those people did it right they would be making an additional 50-75hp.
 






M90 optimum design for 4.0L

Positive displacement blowers, like the Eaton roots M90, develop almost full boost and torque right off idle..

I thought that's what I'd read before. Thanks for confirming.

Great type of blower to get a heavy truck moving..

That's what I was thinking. I've always sensed that my SOHC V6 was weak at low engine speeds - especially for the weight of my Sport. The only realistic way to improve that is with positive displacement forced induction. I was tempted last night to purchase an M90 via eBay just for a future possible use. It was off a 90 SuperCoupe with 130,000 miles and only 15 miles from me so no shipping costs. I could have got it for $225 but it had a big "3.8" on the top which turned me off. If the M90 was used on the Ford and GM 3.8L engines it is probably designed correctly for our 4.0L engines. What are the advantages of the 3rd generation M90?

I've looked at the Banshee conversion kit for the Rangers and its not what I would want to install. That's one reason I'm interested in what you come up with.

. . . Figure for anywhere from 12-16rwhp per psi of boost assuming a proper tune with the right fueling and airflow metering mods having been performed. The reason why you see so many people making crap for power on RPCaster's Eaton kits, for example, is because they try to run them on super low boost with no upgrade to the fuel injectors, pump, or MAFS; let alone a proper ECU tune. If those people did it right they would be making an additional 50-75hp.

I would do it right if I added boost. I'd add a boost gauge and upgrade my injectors and fuel pump. I already have a wideband A/F meter, Lightning 90mm MAF sensor and 75mm racing throttle body with a Henson tune which would be upgraded.
 






2000StreetRod, that supercoupe SC would have worked. That top piece comes off and isn't used. We actually install the M90's upside down from factory positioning..

The way the supercoupe is designed is that the air outlet of the M90 is to the top, and the compressed air goes thru a tube to a air to air intercooler, then around and in to the motor.

We flip the M90 upside down and force the exit of the air directly in to the intake of the motor. This is why we all discuss how to cool the compressed air. Its just not real easy, and space can be limited if you want to keep everything under the hood.

I'm using a manifold that Ron Caster made for the 4.0 OHV, and the inlet tube to the M90 he made. So far so good on my prep for install. There is no space for an intercooler on his design though.
 






I was tempted last night to purchase an M90 via eBay just for a future possible use. It was off a 90 SuperCoupe with 130,000 miles and only 15 miles from me so no shipping costs. I could have got it for $225 but it had a big "3.8" on the top which turned me off.


Unless that blower was recently rebuilt with new seals and bearings or in pretty good condition then you can get one cheaper than that. The price range for these is $75-$100 for one in average condition. Chances are likely that it would benefit from a rebuild so it would not be a bad idea to plan for that to be done. Something to consider when pricing them. I suggest that if you want to pick one up then to go onto the Supercoupe forums and post a WTB thread and look for locals that are selling theirs.
 






blower outlet temps?

Rob,

Last night I read your comments in Jame's 5R55S upgrade thread. Am I correct that positive displacement blowers mounted directly above the engine are more difficult to intercool? Higher intake temps reduce performance for a given amount of boost pressure. I believe you stated that your Kenne Bell has a lower outlet temp than an Eaton but higher than a turbocharger. Do you think a centrifugal supercharger is a better choice for an everyday vehicle because of ease of incorporating an intercooler? Most factory installed blowers incorporate intercoolers. What are the intercooler options for your M90?
 






Rob,

Last night I read your comments in Jame's 5R55S upgrade thread. Am I correct that positive displacement blowers mounted directly above the engine are more difficult to intercool? Higher intake temps reduce performance for a given amount of boost pressure. I believe you stated that your Kenne Bell has a lower outlet temp than an Eaton but higher than a turbocharger. Do you think a centrifugal supercharger is a better choice for an everyday vehicle because of ease of incorporating an intercooler? Most factory installed blowers incorporate intercoolers. What are the intercooler options for your M90?

Yes they typically generate higher intake air temps because they are directly mounted on the top of the engine, are metal, heat rises, and how they compress the aircharge. So that just means that you need to run that much more efficient of an air to water intercooler system especially if you are running higher boost so that by the time the compressor aircharge is about to enter the cylinder ports it is back to a reasonable temperature again. Determining which option of forced induction is better for a daily driver includes allot of abstracts that people may not initially think of. Power making ability, and type of power generated does factor but then so does reliability and many many other things too. Centri's can be very reliable blowers on daily driven vehicles, but Eaton's have a very long track record of being extremely reliable too. Personally I don't have any issues running either Centri, Turbo, or Positive Displacement type of forced induction on a daily driver of mine. All three are great options with different uses. The intercooler options for my M90 is basically "Rob makes his own custom AWIC system". :D No real bolt on options out there.
 






This thing at the track yet;)
 






Rob,

Last night I read your comments in Jame's 5R55S upgrade thread. Am I correct that positive displacement blowers mounted directly above the engine are more difficult to intercool? Higher intake temps reduce performance for a given amount of boost pressure. I believe you stated that your Kenne Bell has a lower outlet temp than an Eaton but higher than a turbocharger. Do you think a centrifugal supercharger is a better choice for an everyday vehicle because of ease of incorporating an intercooler? Most factory installed blowers incorporate intercoolers. What are the intercooler options for your M90?

Their is other m90s that do offer options for intercooling that is bottom discharged.its all custom fab somewhere or another though
 






This thing at the track yet;)

If by "track" you mean resting lazily in the driveway until I tune my other car then "yes". lol
 






If by "track" you mean resting lazily in the driveway until I tune my other car then "yes". lol

Yep exactly what i mean!!;)) im getting so excited to see one done,wish i was as close as you all;)
 



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Yep exactly what i mean!!;)) im getting so excited to see one done,wish i was as close as you all;)

It's ok. Once I get the time and am able to dig into things I don't expect the project to take a long time.
 






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