A4LD tranny clarifications please

[have2goski]

I am looking to do a little work on my tranny.

First, I would like to address the reverse hesitation. I have searched and found that their is a O-ring change to do that may help the problem.

Second, I will be changing my current filter to the Microfelt filter available for the 4R55E. My understanding is that this filter is considered an 'upgrade' to the old ones used in the 4x4 A4ld.

I found some part numbers for ordering from bulkpart.com that Opera House had posted before.

Could sombody that has ordered this stuff help clarify what is included in the kits.

I am looking at the 23031 overhaul kit.

What exactly is included in it?

Other Part #'s at bulkpart.com

23921 MicroFelt Filter 4WD long pickup tube
23270 O-ring Large
23271 O-ring small
23141D Pan Gasket

I need to figure out what i need to order to try and fix the reverse hesitation as well as to change/upgrade the filter.

once that gets cleared up, I have also thought about installing a shift kit while i am at it. I haven't found as much information on these through searching.

I was thinking about the TransGo kit from what I found through searching. anybody have any info on one of these? or know if bulkpart carries it? I found a transgo kit in their index but don't know if it is what I am looking for or not.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Opera House]

This is the basic gasket an seal kit

you get and can use for simple repairs:

front pump and rear (for 2WD) shaft seals
pan gasket and O rings for filter
improved low/reverse seals and cover gasket
both valve body gaskets and hockey pucks
Extension housing gasket (transmission side)

Also a bunch of seals and O rings you will never use unless you fully take apart the transmission. More than you need but one stop shopping.

You do not get clutches and bands
intermediate or overdrive band servos
vacuum modulator
extension housing to transfer case seal.

Filters do not come with O rings or pan gaskets like at many autoparts stores, but they are less than half price.

 

[have2goski]

low/reverse seals

Can I buy just the low/reverse improved double lip seal referred to here...

http://www.atcdg.com/TechBulletins/bull_122.htm

Or is the only way to get it, is in the kit?

I also found some parts through another website that had a exploded veiw map of the tranny internals. here.....

http://www.acerecon.com/catalog/automatics/illustration.asp?t=31

Parts #'s: 1292 and 1293

It seems as if the part i am trying to find is just the large and small o-ring. I don't know if this is the improvement peice or if this would just replace what i have with the same thing.

thanks again for any help

 

[Opera House]

I've been told

If you go to Ford you just get another big O ring. In the improved kit, only one has the double lip. I just like to think with a big bag of parts you will get more adventurious some day. You have your assignment, go see if you can buy one. Both SPX/Cleveland and Transtec have the double lip in the kit.

 

[have2goski]

alright

thanks.

I will keep ya posted on what i find

 

[have2goski]

still trying to find the parts

I talked to a guy that had not heard of the double lip o-ring fix

but he had suggested removing the spring that is on the low/reverse servo assembly completely. He said it was a "trick" to fix the delayed reverse. I had contacted him about a superior shift kit originally that he had for sale on ebay.

(he is a transmission mechanic and had a whole list of credentials to go with it)

does anybody have an opinion about removing that spring? what is the springs function?

just want to try and get a second opinion on it before i try it.

 

[Opera House]

well, I'm impressed

Who needs all those extra parts! Those engineers never know what they are doing. If you ever felt how the piston moves from side to side with an old O ring, you would understand the problem. If the O ring leaks and reduces pressure, removing the spring will give more force and might let the band drag. Unfortunantly that reduced pressure also reduces the pressure on the high clutch which will cause it to wear. So, he knows it is leaking and won't even put a new round O ring in? This must be the guy whose rebuilds only last a year and a half we all hear about. SPX/Cleveland and Transtec both offer the double lip O ring seal. I just figure with other leaking seals and an old pump, you can use all the help you can get. Why don't you try it and tell us how well it works. There is another guy who drills out the feed hole to get more fluid in to overcome the leak.

 

[have2goski]

?

well i ordered that overhaul kit and couldn't figure out which o-ring was for the reverse servo

most of the parts were not labeled.

I found one seal that was boxed but had 2 lips, so thought that might be it. tried putting it up in the tranny and the servo piston would bind up and not move freely. I ended up putting the old o-ring back in.

didn't really want to do that but kinda didn't have a choice.

so i get everything put back together and now i have basically no reverse. It will engage every once in awhile but I really have to wait for a long time till it kicks in. Fluid level is up and there is no reason for me to believe I lost vacuum to the tranny

any ideas would be helpful

this is gonna be interesting trying to park on campus until i can get back out to my grandpa's to open this thing up again

starting to ask myself why i even messed with it

 

[SteveVB]

The double lip seal is in a seperate bag in the overhaul kit, the one I had had the instructions in the bag with it. I bought the same overhaul kit from Mako.

The Transgo kit removes the clip and the spring from the low reverse servo- replaces it with a lighter spring I think... I did that and replaced the seal.

I bought both the superior kit and the Transgo kit- they have some overlap, but some differences- the superior kit has a govenor anti stick spring, etc. They both have the same instructions for valve body mods.

I like my trans - shifts are tight, but not too firm, no delays, bangs etc.

If you removed the servo and have no reverse, check manual 1, if no go I would suspect that the rod didnt make it back to the low/reverse band strut.

 

[lonestar]

Re: ?

Originally posted by have2goski
I found one seal that was boxed but had 2 lips, so thought that might be it. tried putting it up in the tranny and the servo piston would bind up and not move freely. I ended up putting the old o-ring back in.

Just a guess, but maybe it shouldn't move freely.
better seal = snug fit

I may be doing the same thing on a 4r44e in an 95 ranger 3.0. It too seems to hesitate when placed in reverse. Not too bad, but it does tale a second or 2.

 

[have2goski]

well what i did was installed the seal that i thought was the double lip one (it was not in a seperate bag from the other seals)

put the whole thing back together and ran through the gears. no reverse.

i may have been about a half quart low on fluid at this point in time because i had not yet had it up to operating temp for a more accurate measurement. I had collected what was removed and measure that, to get an idea what i should put back in, roughly anyway.

since i was weary of the seal not being the proper one i dropped the pan again and change the o-ring back to the original.

when i had the new seal in, the srping would not push the piston out. my thinking is that if the seal is exerting that much force to act against the spring it is too tight of a fit

with the old o-ring the spring forces the piston out the bore and it was difficult to get the cover plate reinstalled.

i had also purcahsed a superior shift kit to install, to my surprise there had already been one installed either by the previous owner or during the rebuild about 50,000 miles ago. I didn't install the kit i purchased simply because the exact same kit was already in place and it didn't seem worth the effort of futher tearing into the valve body simply to install newer springs.

before dropping the pan i had no problems with shifting when i was driving. my only problem was the delayed reverse. I thought that the o-ring would be a simple fix for this problem and thought that i would throw in the shift kit for go measure while i had the pan off.

 

[have2goski]

one more thing

i forgot to mention that the tranny will engage in 1

if i go from P to 1 and then to R

i can get it to engage after a few seconds

if i try to go from P/OD/D/or 2 to R

it usually does not engage

 

[SteveVB]

Originally posted by have2goski


since i was weary of the seal not being the proper one i dropped the pan again and change the o-ring back to the original.

when i had the new seal in, the srping would not push the piston out. my thinking is that if the seal is exerting that much force to act against the spring it is too tight of a fit

with the old o-ring the spring forces the piston out the bore and it was difficult to get the cover plate reinstalled.

It should be tight- I think the first one you had in was the correct seal. If you dip it in trans fluid before install it should slide in. It should be tight- the delay is caused by fluid getting by the piston, not holding pressure behind the servo.

Good Luck

 

[have2goski]

so the spring should not be able to push the piston out?
when i had it up in there i pushed the piston up and it just stayed in there with the new seal. i simply then just bolted the plate over it. The piston, seal, and bore were all coated with tranny fluid when assembling.

when i removed the piston with the old ring in it, there was alot of force pushing the piston out.

 

[Opera House]

No sense of adventure

It is easy to forget that the things I think of as normal can seem very unusual to others. Depending on wall condition and lubrication the new O ring motion can seem a little stiff. It will also take a set after it is installed and move easier. I just rebuilt a 1 ½ inch hydraulic cylinder for a band saw and I practically had to pound it together. Just try moving the OD and intermediate servos. When you get a chance, try installing it again. If the piston will go in, don't worry. Just lubricate the walls and seal. I appreciate your comments and hearing of your experience so the procedure can be improved.

Did you ever drive around with the vehicle after the new seal was installed?

 

[have2goski]

didn't drive it

I had it up on ramps and couldn't get it into reverse to drive off them with the new seal installed.

I didn't think maually pulling the thing out of the garage and then getting it turned around to drive it sounded very appealing.

i am glad to hear that i might have the right seal after all. I will try and get in there again and then try and drive it a bit after it is installed.

it just seemed odd how stiff the piston was in there.

can anyone shed some more light on what the seal physically looks like. the one i think it is, has a square back on the inner wall and the outside has 2 "lips" seperated by a channel in the middle. the overall diameter seems to be dead on for the piston

the lips don't seem to be very rounded as an o-ring would be. just wondering how this would act with the piston sliding

 

[SteveVB]

The seal you describe is the one you want- it has two square edged "lips" seperated by a "v" channel, back side of seal is square. It should fit tight.
Also while you are in there check the servo bore for any scores and or glazed damaged areas.

Sounds like you have the correct one. Use fluid to lube the bore walls and seal before installing so it wont catch or tear. You could also use some petroleum jelly to slide it in if needed.

 

[Opera House]

I used to have a picture of it

Looks like it got trashed. If I remember, it has also been refered to as a D ring. The inside looks like a standard O ring and the two outside edges are the lips with a little valley. There are other seals in the kit which are square/rectangular with a slit on one of the side faces. I'm having a little trouble with it being that tight. Those seals are a puzzle when you do a rebuild. You have to sort them out by size in piles and almost do a process of elimination.

Is there anything else happening with the transmission? So many parts share functions. I would check the linkage to see if it snaps firmly into R at the transmission from both directions. Is it a predictable delay, is it necessary to rev before it goes into R? The D>R and 1>R are interesting, like a pressure regulator hang up. There could be problems with the high clutch. Any interesting sediment? Even if it doesn't cure it, new seal sholdn't make it worse.

 

[have2goski]

update

well i finally got some time to put that double lip seal in again.

I bolted everything back together, added fluid and ran it through the gears a few times up on the ramps.

After a few minutes it seemed to be engaging into reverse fairly well. I backed it out and took it for a test drive.

drove it around for awhile and the reverse engagement has been getting worse.

I again have had to go back to shifting into reverse from manual 1 but now it takes a really long time to engage.

it just doesn't make sense to me what is going on.

i am really thinking i should have just left it alone from the beginning. i am now fearing i will have to pay for a rebuild or get a reman. tranny put in.


lets see if i missed something, i will try and list everything i touched while i was in there

1) dropped pan
2) removed filter
3) removed low/reverse servo cover
4) removed piston
5) replaced seals on piston; placed in fluid "bath"
6) inspect bore walls
7) remove valve body
8) opened valve body at seperator plate
9) saw superior shift kit had already been installed
10) reassembled valave body at seperator plate using new gasket and torque specs
11) install valve body back in tranny using torque specs
12) re-install low reverse piston with new seals
13) re-install cover plate with new gasket and to troque specs
14) install new filter
15) re-install trans pan with new gasket and to torque specs
16) add fluid to system and run through gears continuing to check fluid level and add as necessary

i am thinking that since my manual 1 works perfectly fine maybe there is an issue with fluid moving about the internals of the trans. when i try for reverse and not necessarily the servo piston is not sealing

could i have possibly misaligned the gaskets when i re-installed the valve body? causing some sort of blockage?

maybe one of the little 'balls' in the valve body shifted out of position when i put it back together?

again all the foward gears are working perferctly fine. the reverse seriously takes about a minute/minute and a half for it to engage (sitting on level ground, at idle, with brakes applied, with it in 'R' and simply waiting for it to engage)


any help would be appreciated as always

 

[Opera House]

What about the little hockey pucks in the valve body and bore 207 Reverse Engagement Control Valve?