Another 1998 Explorer Sport V8 Project. . .Completed!

[410Fortune]

I make brake and fuel lines all the time I do not see a huge challenge here. The reverse metric bubble flare Ford used at the brake master cylinder can be interesting to build, but totally do able with a simple flare tool

If you look at your truck chances are there is a union on the brake line already back by the fuel filter, Ford did not use one section of line from the abs pump back, it is in several sections.

Deleting the ABS pump, going hydroboost and get rid of the vacuum brake booster, relocate the rear axle brake line, re locate the fuel line, hack into the EVAP vapor line and you just made more room on the drivers side for keeping the exhaust inside the frame rail.

 

[redavis460]

Hi guys, got a quick video of a road test up; everything is running well. At 70-75 mph, it is averaging somewhere around 16 mpg. For what it is, I am definitely not complaining. After modifying the fuel tank (which now carries more fuel in which was before a "Dead Air" space), it is giving me around a 250-300 mile cruising range with the Explorer Sport fuel tank (around 19 gallons). Later on in the day (after this video), I was able to reach 132 mph on the GPS in 4th (1:1) with the 3.27 gears and 275-60-15 tires. The tires aren't speed rated, so you wouldn't want to stay there long; however, it definitely feels like it could still pull 5th gear once you got the engine over 4000 rpm. These cars are as aerodynamic as a brick (as you will hear us discuss at the end)!

 

[xartic]

I just came across your thread and this Sport is awesome! There's no question that's a head turner. I used to have a 01 Sport and loved that vehicle, wish they put a v8 from factory in those.

Have you clocked any 0-60 or 1/4 times?

 

[vroomzoomboom]

ive done according to the speedometer 220kms per hour or 136 mph.....once. i ran out of nerve before it ran out of speed and it was still pulling. even lowered with low profile tires it wants to float and dart around. not something you want to do everyday unless your will is up to date thats for sure

 

[CDW6212R]

ive done according to the speedometer 220kms per hour or 136 mph.....once. i ran out of nerve before it ran out of speed and it was still pulling. even lowered with low profile tires it wants to float and dart around. not something you want to do everyday unless your will is up to date thats for sure

Those are good numbers to hit, and scary too.

Tim, you have a big rear sway bar also right?

For high speeds, I'd want wider tires and lowering, plus the bigger sway bars. The EE rear bar helps a ton in cornering, that should also be good for stability at all speeds.

 

[sandsprayer]

Hi guys, got a quick video of a road test up; everything is running well. At 70-75 mph, it is averaging somewhere around 16 mpg. For what it is, I am definitely not complaining. After modifying the fuel tank (which now carries more fuel in which was before a "Dead Air" space), it is giving me around a 250-300 mile cruising range with the Explorer Sport fuel tank (around 19 gallons). Later on in the day (after this video), I was able to reach 132 mph on the GPS in 4th (1:1) with the 3.27 gears and 275-60-15 tires. The tires aren't speed rated, so you wouldn't want to stay there long; however, it definitely feels like it could still pull 5th gear once you got the engine over 4000 rpm. These cars are as aerodynamic as a brick (as you will hear us discuss at the end)!



View attachment 318891

That is awesome, Russell!
One thing is for sure, you got some Cojones!

 

[xartic]

ive done according to the speedometer 220kms per hour or 136 mph.....once. i ran out of nerve before it ran out of speed and it was still pulling. even lowered with low profile tires it wants to float and dart around. not something you want to do everyday unless your will is up to date thats for sure

Yeah I notice floating on my 14 X when I pull higher speeds like you. I’d honestly look at coil overs if you plan on running triple digits ever.

 

[redavis460]

I just came across your thread and this Sport is awesome! There's no question that's a head turner. I used to have a 01 Sport and loved that vehicle, wish they put a v8 from factory in those.

Have you clocked any 0-60 or 1/4 times?

Unfortunately no; the M5R2's brass blocker rings, plus the weight of the car, would probably mean some less than impressive numbers. It would be nice to build an automatic-transmissioned twin with a good converter and 3.73's to see what it would do though!

 

[vroomzoomboom]

Unfortunately no; the M5R2's brass blocker rings, plus the weight of the car, would probably mean some less than impressive numbers. It would be nice to build an automatic-transmissioned twin with a good converter and 3.73's to see what it would do though!

im impressed the 5spd has held up as long as it has with that motor!

 

[sandsprayer]

Just watched again, this time noticed the shorts and bare feet/ flip flops, thinking you need a gift card for some Simpson Safety Products!
I heavily modified my first car starting in 1980,- a 62 Valiant, nobody heard of a hot 6 cyl, and couldn't believe how it skipped from stoplight to stoplight, Took alot of weight out, 4 speed and large yoke 8 3/4 w/ 4.11s, so much more...
Long story short steering was practically pointless past 95mph (Cd of like .52) there was so much lift.
One night @ the strip, kept on it well past the lights and barely held onto it coming around to the return road!
There has to be a God.
Thanks for rekindling the memory.
Stay safe

 

[redavis460]

Just watched again, this time noticed the shorts and bare feet/ flip flops, thinking you need a gift card for some Simpson Safety Products!
I heavily modified my first car starting in 1980,- a 62 Valiant, nobody heard of a hot 6 cyl, and couldn't believe how it skipped from stoplight to stoplight, Took alot of weight out, 4 speed and large yoke 8 3/4 w/ 4.11s, so much more...
Long story short steering was practically pointless past 95mph (Cd of like .52) there was so much lift.
One night @ the strip, kept on it well past the lights and barely held onto it coming around to the return road!
There has to be a God.
Thanks for rekindling the memory.
Stay safe

That's a good one! Yeah, we weren't really planning on anything that hazardous that day; it was basically just a parts run up to Lakeland, Florida with my footwear-challenged friend. The opportunity presented itself when the lane opened up, and we went for it. I've got nitrous hooked up for use at some point, but I am still waiting for the timing retard before I try it out. This outing starts to help me begin to separate dreams from reality though; with the nitrous on and an extra 150 horsepower, the car may have had the ability to hit 150 mph in the same amount of time (if you listen, I momentarily get off of it at about 118). With the aerodynamic issues the car has, I am realizing that could be very "risky"; the instability is very non-linear in that any kind of small gust seems like it wanted to start snowballing out of control at speed.

 

[sandsprayer]

That's a good one! Yeah, we weren't really planning on anything that hazardous that day; it was basically just a parts run up to Lakeland, Florida with my footwear-challenged friend. The opportunity presented itself when the lane opened up, and we went for it. I've got nitrous hooked up for use at some point, but I am still waiting for the timing retard before I try it out. This outing starts to help me begin to separate dreams from reality though; with the nitrous on and an extra 150 horsepower, the car may have had the ability to hit 150 mph in the same amount of time (if you listen, I momentarily get off of it at about 118). With the aerodynamic issues the car has, I am realizing that could be very "risky"; the instability is very non-linear in that any kind of small gust seems like it wanted to start snowballing out of control at speed.

Temptation of the open road!
While that Valiant was at a disadvantage to your Sport in frontal area, sidewinds were never much of a thought.
Ah yes, nitrous, Sometime I will message you the Mr. Toad's Wild Ride story I got taken on as a kid. On that day I became hooked.........on speed, not N2O.

 

[redavis460]

Hi guys; just put up another YouTube video, this time of a part throttle drive-by to give you and idea of the sound:

To recap, it is running custom headers into 2 and 1/2 pipes, then into a single 3 and 1/2 inch muffler and tailpipe (Stainless MagnaFlow). Hope you enjoy!

 

[fast_dave]

im impressed the 5spd has held up as long as it has with that motor!

The Mazda M5OD-R2 is a "Toploader" style transmission and can take abuse as well as dish it out!


Thanks for continuing to share your pet project with us @redavis460

 

[redavis460]

The Mazda M5OD-R2 is a "Toploader" style transmission and can take abuse as well as dish it out!


Thanks for continuing to share your pet project with us @redavis460

Thanks FastDave. the M5R2 is a much-misunderstood transmission; probably because it carries the stigma of being associated with the M5R1 (though they share little if anything in common). No doubt there may be better options out there, but these came stock with 11-inch clutches, and the center-to-center distance between the main and countershafts is actually larger than the old Toploaders (which some say is a measure of increased strength potential due to larger-diameter gears).

As you probably know, the Thunderbird SC Coupes of some years used them, and have put a fair amount of power through them at the dragstrip. The thing that kills its popularity nowadays is that it never caught on as any kind of aftermarket standard, so the goodies that can be found for Tremecs and Borg-Warners are impossible to find (like fiber blocking rings and such). Still, for the options I had at the time I built it, it has held up well, and actually fits within an inch or so of the shifter location of the stock M5R1 (I had to use the later upper shifter housing from the modular v8-equipped tranny). It does shift very similar to an old Toploader, but you don't have to worry about the shifter wearing as quick due to the internal rails.

 

[redavis460]

Hi Guys, Just wanted to post this here if someone googles for the info. I've got the Mazda-sourced M5R2 / M5OD transmission out to change the dual-disc clutch out, and I went ahead and tried to get a measurement of the center distance of this trans: From the looks of it, approximately 3.255" is the centerline distance between counter shaft and mainshaft on the M5R2 / M5OD trans. Compare this with the advertised centerline distance of the Ford Toploader 3 / 4 speed transmission measurement of 3.03". According to most, this measurement is one way to gauge the torque rating of the transmission in stock form; obviously, gear material strength, as well as pitch and width, comes into play as well.

I don't know if I have ever seen a Ford or Mazda sourced engineering spec sheet giving the exact measurements and torque ratings, but there is a lot of possible (mis)information floating around out there on the web about the M5R2. I think another possibility that affects torque ratings in a negative manner on these as compared with the toploader is the fact that these probably have to consider the strength of the overdrive gears, which will never be as strong as the 1:1 direct drive (usually found in 4th gear in longitudinal transmissions). Obviously, the toploader transmissions that are so highly rated don't have to take this into account (with the exception of the late 1970's Granada 3+1 overdrive unit, which oddly is frowned upon due to it's low torque rating; I wonder why)? I've had my car up into triple digits, but always in 4th (direct drive); I don't know how hot the overdrive gearset would get as it tried to push an aerodynamic brick through the air at those speeds!

And while I'm posting about lessons learned, I will go ahead and give a word of caution to anyone using aluminum flywheels with clutch friction discs that either ride on the inner edge of the steel insert (as my Mcleod twin-disc clutch does) or on the outer edge as an 11" setup tends to do: if there is any part of the friction material that extends past the steel insert, as the clutch friction disc wears, it will tend to wedge it into the inside or outside of the insert, and cause the clutch to drag and feel as if it is failing to release (very hard on synchronizers)! I had initially wondered if I had failed to properly lube the splines on the input shaft and that was what was causing the two clutch friction discs to stick; evidently not. Here is a photo example of what I found:

 

[CDW6212R]

Interesting. I'm not sure what that dimension is, I hope that you get it straightened out to work right and last a long time.

You did a great job putting that truck together, again well done and I hope it works as you wanted, for a long time. A very few others have pushed the level of the 4 speed automatic as to top speed and the 1/4 mile limitation of the 3rd gear. I'm no where near to worrying about that for my project.

But I saw an expensive solution to it recently on the Corral. Not for these vehicles, but others have needed stronger automatics for their older Ford trucks, and even a Mustang or two. I read some of those to learn, and for curiosity. I daydreamed of their hard work and aftermarket parts, and applied it to these Explorers. I could see building a stout SBF Explorer, and when finished have it running out of gear for the 1/4, and think to this. If you had to do better than the 4R70W trans, the newer 6R80 can be installed in older vehicles, and with a SBF.

I haven't seen many details of Fox Mustangs with them, but people have done it. I'm imagining a six speed in the Explorer, with 3.08 gears in the diff. That makes final drive ratios like this; the 1st gear would be 1.2 times the old 1st gear, 2-5 would be closer ratios, and 6th gear would be a ratio of 1.2 less than the old 4th gear. So the spread would be evenly across the old gearing, with no bands it can take WOT in any gear, and high gear would drop highway rpm's by maybe 500rpm. The cost though, big downside, I figured maybe $4500 or more.

Never mind us, finish up your clutch work, and drive that truck as much as you feel like it.

 

[redavis460]

CDW6212R, I definitely agree on the automatic route for probably 75% of most builds, especially those that put a premium on 0-60 or other acceleration trials. Properly set up to handle the horsepower thrown at them, they will take an incredible amount of abuse for the performance desired compared to a typical manual transmission. Sometimes when I find myself at stoplights with a friendly challenge next to me, I miss the punch of a set of 4.11's and a good 3000 stall converter. The M5R2 with the 3.90 first gear will definitely get it moving (even with the 3.27 rear gear), but it really works the clutch - and the driveline shock invariably starts the rear end hopping, even with the V-8 override traction bars and 3rd shock absorber. Second gear is a problem as well, with the wide-ratio jump and brass blocker rings refusing to cooperate when haste is required. . .but those wide gear spreads are really nice on those mountain day trips (I usually don't upshift to 5th until I get on the interstate).

Speaking of automatics, I don't know if they have solved the problem with the old high-stall converters and engine thrust bearing wear; the 400 SBC that we ran with a turbo 400 and 3000 stall would destroy them within a year if you used it much, especially by slamming the throttle open (which was fun while it lasted). If you get yours up and dialed in, I'd love to go for a ride sometime. I am here in Atlanta, so maybe we aren't too far apart!

 

[fast_dave]

@redavis460

You're engineering and learning at the same time - thanks so much for sharing!

Say man - how many miles on that clutch disc in post #96?

Now that you found out about this condition - "clutch lip" - and the condition it's causing (hard shifting), have you thought about going back to to a steel flywheel with a standard HD clutch or?

I'm sure that you don't want to continue on the road of dropping that rans and replacing the clutch disc every 7 - 8 months.

With that said - I hope you stick w/ the 5 Speed - it has that cool factor

 

[redavis460]

@redavis460

You're engineering and learning at the same time - thanks so much for sharing!

Say man - how many miles on that clutch disc in post #96?

Now that you found out about this condition - "clutch lip" - and the condition it's causing (hard shifting), have you thought about going back to to a steel flywheel with a standard HD clutch or?

I'm sure that you don't want to continue on the road of dropping that rans and replacing the clutch disc every 7 - 8 months.

With that said - I hope you stick w/ the 5 Speed - it has that cool factor

I'd say that clutch has about 10k miles on it (I can't access my old photos of the dash right now, but that would be a close estimate). I've ultimately decided to go back to the standard 11" clutch setup this time around to see how it behaves. The dual disc clutch, even when new, was more comparable to an on/off light switch versus a conventional setup; hard to explain exactly, but I had to change my habit of "feathering" it when engaging from a dead stop. Instead, one foot had to be on the throttle while the other came off the clutch (which was tough to do with an aluminum flywheel and creeping forward in traffic). It really felt like abuse, but it was the only way to either stop the chatter or prevent stalling.

On the new conventional clutch, I've gone ahead and chamfered the outside of the friction disc in hopes of preventing a similar problem (which would now be on the outside circumference of the disc; hopefully this will prevent pulling the trans out again anytime soon.