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Another 5.0L Miss Thread

Cali' Explorer

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Well, another small update (still no pics, but I think I will be able to get some as I start cleaning things up).

Cylinder Head Status:
The Cylinder Heads came back from the shop all nice and pretty. When I asked them if they found anything wrong, they said that there wasn't any thing directly. Leak tests and Magna Flux all came back AOK.

When I asked them about the Valve Guides and their condition, he said they didnt' check them because they replaced them as part of the rebuild. This frustrates me only because I explicitly said I wanted them fully checked out before anything is done, but such is life. The good news is that I "manually" checked the valves to see if they have any wobble and they are now wobble free now (before I could physically see them wobble when I put pressure on the valves).

The heads look nice, very clean. I was suprised in that, one of the freeze plugs appears to have almost a rubber grommet with a screw through it. There is one on each cylinder head, with the opposing one being a normal freeze plug. Anyone have any clue what those are for?


Other Parts (Teehee):
Since the heads came back ok and everything looks nice on them, I decided to splurge a little on the X. I went ahead and purchased the following from Jegs:
- Crane Cams 1.6 Pedestal Mount Roller Rockers (Identical to FMS one's, just natural aluminum I believe)
- Crane Cams Pedestal Rocker Shim Kit
- Comp Cams Pushrods (stock length)
- ARP Head Bolts (Hex Head of course)
- Accel Black Wire Loom (To make my spark plug wire routing nice and purdy)
- Various Lubes and Greases for Assembly

I still need to go pick up some RTV and a few other basic components because Jegs couldn't ship the order 2 day with them (darn hazardous waste). The good news is, that stuff is probably cheaper locally anyways.


Next Step:
I am starting to strip down and clean up all the parts I have gotten home. I am planning on painting the Cylinder Heads black (masking off all the internal parts as well as any bolt holes and the Freeze Plugs). I am then going to clean up the upper and lower intake (no painting, I like the Natural Aluminum look).


Some Questions:
I do still have a couple of questions that I was hoping someone could help with. I can probably wing it, but if I can get confirmation I'll feel better.

1. For painting the Cylinder Heads, should I use an Engine Paint, or a High Temp paint? Engine Paint is usually good up to 550 F, and I don't think the Cylinder Heads see higher then that, but I don't want to have it peeling off either.

2. For the RTV, I was planning to just get a can of the Ultra Black compression poured stuff. I'll be using this to make the Block/Lower Intake gasket gaps (I believe "Booger Glob" is the term used here =)). Should I be using anything else anywhere else?

3. I am going to put sealant on the bolts that are sitting in the water passages, but want to confirm which those are. It appears that those are all the lower Cylinder Bolts, the ones that are outside the Valve Covers. I am planning to use sealant on these and then the Assembly Oil that ARP Recommends for the others (I have it just lying around).

4. For the valve covers, my Fel-Pro gasket kit came with a set of Cork gaskets. I'm assuming these should be fine, but when I removed the Valve Covers, they had Metal Gaskets with Rubber seals on both sides. Is one better then the other, or is it like the difference between Russett and Idaho potatoes?

5. Last and not least, I have a 20 - 120 ft-lb torque wrench which should be fine for the heavy duty stuff, but for the upper intake and what not, it calls for a smaller torque wrench. I was going to just pick up one of the smaller in-lb torque wrenches from Sears for all of the little things, but wanted to make sure it won't be a mistake in doing so. My biggest concern here is, a few years ago I was rebuilding an Oldsmobile Cutlass 3.1 and it had aluminum heads. I followed the directions and did everything right, but when I got near the rated torque for the heads, I killed the threads. I ended up having to use heli-coils on all of them and I obviously don't want to repeat this.


Thanks again for all who are following and any help any of you can give.

I will try to get some pictures of all the parts and the re-assembly since the Fiance said that she can take some pictures for me (non-digi, so you'll have to wait for development =)).
 



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Bill MacLeod

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The following is my opinion only:

1) Engine paint will work fine, heads will not exceed 500 F.

2) I like Permatex Ultra Black. Dab in the corner, smear a film on the end gaskets. Wait 10 minutes, dab in the corners, smear film on top of end gaskets. Let set-up.

3) Everything looks good here. ARP bolts, lots of sealant on the bottom bolts, lube on the upper bolts. Try to get the threads cleaned-out on the lower holes especially. Clean all surfaces with laquer thinners beforehand.

4) There are no better v/c gaskets that Ford oem. Buy them, they will not shrink and leak like cork. And they are reusable.

5) But an inch lb wrench. When you do any maintenance on the trans, your will get lots of use.

When you install the rockers, set the v/c in place. (no gasket or bolts). Turn the engine over by hand and observe for any contact between rockers and covers. If there is and the stock covers are aluminum, you can do some clearancing/grinding with a Dremel. If the covers are steel, dimple with a ball peen hammer.

With the intake manifold off, now is the time to clean-up any rough casting flash in the ports. Make it nice and smooth.

Good luck.
 






Cali' Explorer

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Bill-
Thanks for that, I figured pretty much on 1, 2 and 3. Although, most of the people I talk to on 2 say to ditch the gasket that comes with the kits and use a big old glob of RTV because the End Cap gaskets tend to slip and leak.

On the Valve Cover Gaskets, that's kind of what I was figuring already, I liked the look of the Stock V/C gaskets better, plus they'll match my black on black motiff better, haha.

I do plan to check the rockers to ensure that there is no hitting, but I'm not too concerned with that. If I really do get it hitting, I'll break down and buy an Upper Intake Spacer and some taller valve covers :D . But it seems like only one 5.0 guy has had a problem getting the 1.6 Roller Rockers to fit under the stock V/C that I know of, so I'm not TOO concerned.

Also, I am taking your suggestion on the burs and stuff in the intake and what not, I'll be sitting with my handy dandy cordless dremel for many hours in the evening over the next week getting them all ready, hehe.
 






Bill MacLeod

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Whether or not you use the end gaskets is a personal choice. Thats why I like to "stick" them down first. To prevent them from slipping out, I cut the heads off 4 long 5/16" x 18 bolts. Thread them in the 4 corners, now you have dowels to "sit" the lower straight down. Its a must to clean all surfaces before using any sealants. Thinners, brake clean, whatever, clean, clean clean.

Go to town on that GT-40 lower intake make it as smooth as possible and as far into the ports as you can get. You don't have to attempt a gasket match, that gets time consuming.

Does the X have stamped steel or alum. valve covers?

The Crane rockers are much larger than the stamped steel oem rockers. Any particular reason why you didn't choose the 1.7 cobra rockers?

Using an intake spacer/tall v/c's can cause alot of problems on an SN95 Mustang. Hitting the hood, the EGR valve, etc. Try to avoid these if possible. Keep things as simple as you can.

With all the bs you have gone through, sounds like you are getting some enjoyment from the upgrades. Should be a stout top end when all is bolted down.

One other thing, don't over tighten any of the intake bolts. Do the lower in stages, even let in sit overnight and retorque the lower the next day. You don't want to pull-it apart because of a stupid water leak. The Felpro "print-o-seal are a great intake gasket.

Best of luck. If you need any torque specs etc, LMK.
 






Turdle

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Severe clearance issues with those rocker arms. The crane casting shape is huge!( I have 'em) and even with fms covers I hit unless I used 2 gaskets. I also removed the baffle and istalled a cheap oil seperator. That is the main reason I have the intake spacer, to clear my tall valve covers. 2 gaskets will give the needed clearance, but you might need to modify the baffle area.
Good luck
 






Cali' Explorer

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Bill-
Thanks for that on the Lower Intake Ends, I will take that into account and may give that a try.

For the Valve Covers, I have the Stamped Steel Valve Covers. I do know that the 1.6 Roller Rockers are much bigger then the OEM Rockers, but with all the people who have run the 1.6 Roller Rockers, I wasn't too concerned, but I guess we won't know until I try to install them.

I will make sure to take my time with the intake stuff and do it in stages. I can certainly wait and do a retorque the next morning, I have Saturday and most of Sunday set aside to do this, so I should be able to take some time and get it right. I am assuming at this point that the intake bolts are NOT stretch bolts and I don't need to replace them?

JTSmith-
Were you running the Crane Cams 1.6 Roller Rockers, or the 1.7's? I was under the impression that the Crane and FMS 1.6 rockers were identical.


I mean, I guess the absolute worst case is that they don't fit and I either have to come up with new Valve Covers and a spacer. I'm really keeping my fingers crossed that they fit properly.
 






Cali' Explorer

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Ohh, and also, the main reason I went with the 1.6 rockers over the 1.7 was just this, I wanted them to fit with the stock gear as I heard they typically did. Hopefully if the Crane one's don't work, I can return them to Jegs and get the FMS units instead, but as I say, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Thanks guys for all the help.
 






Cali' Explorer

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Just an update, since I've now been freaked out about my Roller Rockers.

I was checking around over at Corral (lots of useful information for building up 5.0's, not leaving here mind you). I found several threads that were showing that the FMS, Crane Gold and Crane Blue Racer Roller Rockers (The latter of which I have purchased) are all identical except for the color. One individual said he even called Crane tech to confirm this and they did... all of these are the same exact dimensions as long as they are the same mount type and ratio.

With that said, I plan to give Crane a call myself tomorrow just to confirm again, but with this, I am much less worried then I was... but I will be prepared for the possibility of this happening. If it does, I will replace the pushrods and install the old Rocker Arms until I can either get larger Valve Covers and a small spacer for the intake, or until I can get the FMS ones.

I'll keep all posted on what I find out, because the Crane Cams rockers are $70 cheaper then the FMS ones, and if the only difference is color, I'd much rather spend $70 on more upgrades then having FMS Blue and Ford Logos under the hood where nobody can see them :).
 






Bill MacLeod

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Steven:

The Ford 1.7 r/r used on the 93 to 95 Cobra are in fact made by Crane. I bought the Crane rockers from Summit and they actually have the Ford logo stamped on them and also the Ford part #. The 93/95 Cobra's also had stamped steel v/c's. These cleared the 1.7 rockers, but the earlier Fox aluminum covers would not clear without mods. (grinding, baffle removal etc)

All cobra v/c from 93 to 95 plus all 94/95 Mustang Gt covers are the same (with the exception of the Cobra logo) and clear the alum 1.7 rockers. Now the blue 1.6 rockers may be another story, I'm not sure. There may be info on the Corral about this, I can post a ? if you like.

So that was my reason for asking what type of v/c you have on the Explorer. Was wondering if they may be similar to the SN 95 Mustang GT valve covers.

I also have a spare set of 94/95 Gt valve covers that I can easily take some photo's and email to you if needed.
 






Cali' Explorer

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Bill-
I'm feeling pretty confident again that the 1.6's will fit either very easily, or with very minor modification needs based on previous threads. But as I mentioned before, there have been exceptions to the rule, so I'm not ruling out the possibility. I am planning to rub a little vaseline or white engine assembly lube on the outer points of the Roller Rockers, and then I will install the valve covers loosely on the cylinder heads. I will then rotate the engine 3 - 4 times and pull the Valve Covers to check if the White grease got onto the Valve Covers Anywhere. If it did, I know I have contact.

I am curious, is there any reason not to remove the Oil Baffles? I was reading on 410's thread that he bought a set of '93 Cobra Valve Covers for clearance of the 1.6 Rockers (Not sure if he had clearance issues, I think he was planning ahead just in case or liked the look of them more). But, in his thread, it mentioned that the oil baffles had been removed. If there is no downside to this, it may be the easiest solution to the problem, but I also assume engineers put the baffles in there for a reason.

I think worst case, if I get contact, I will buy a replacement set of valve covers and install a 3/8" or 1/2" Phenolic Spacer (I'll need to check for clearance under the hood for which I can fit). But, that's just my contingency plan.

Also, My other reason for not going to 1.7 Rockers was I heard that going to 1.7 does incrase HP and Torque, but it causes the engine to produce it at higher RPM's. While I want to have power outside of 3,000 RPM, I don't really want to only have power in the upper RPM range as most of my driving is still spent under 3k.
 






Bill MacLeod

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The baffles prevents oil splash up/out the oil fill tube and also oil being sucked through the small tube into the intake. Don't remove the baffle unless absolutely necesary. Take a BFH and dimple first. Of course, lets hope you don't need to do either.

The 1.7 rockers do not hurt low rpm power, they extend the upper rpm range maybe 200 rpm. HP wise, one might gain 3 to 5 horses, but its all up top. These rockers would compliment your GT-40 heads and Explorer intake manifold. Like messaging the intake ports, makes slightly more power in the upper rpm range. But the 1.6 rockers will work just fine.

Looking forward to hearing what the final results are. You have all the bases covered.
 






Cali' Explorer

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Bill-
Ok, I figured hte baffles served SOME purpose. I could also potentially grind out the Baffles and move them up a bit more if I really needed to, but again, lets hope it doesn't come to that.

The Cylinder Heads are coming out of the trunk today to get primered and painted. I was upset to find upon closer inspection that the machine shop had installed a Heli-Coil into one of the Exhaust Manifold bolt holes. I know that the holes was not stripped when I removed it from the X (at least, I never had a problem threading or removing the bolts before). Anything special I need to keep in mind with a Heli-Coil, or should I treat it just like a normal hole?
 






410Fortune

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heli coils rule, if it was installed properly, just forget its there. those suckers are $$$$$$$
 






Cali' Explorer

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410-
Thanks for that info. I kind of figured that was the case. I know my dad's told me once or twice that heli-coils can actually be stronger then the stock holes too, because they are hardened and because of the way they are forced apart and have pressure put against the original holes... but I like to cover my bases.


Also, just a note for everyone. I just got off the phone with Crane Cams tech support. I called to confirm that the "Blue Racer" Crane Cams 1.6 Roller Rockers I bought matched the FMS 1.6 Roller Rockers. He did confirm that they make the FMS. He also confirmed that the FMS, Gold Race and Blue Racer all start as the same extusion (meaning the profile of them is identical to start with). He said where they may differ slightly is in the width of the 2 faces as well as the height of the center mount for the rockers. He basically said that their Blue Racer are meant to be more inexpensive and more for street use. As such, they don't spend as much time machining the width of the Rockers Down.

Now, my assumption is that the spot that hits on these is the top outer most point on the valve side of the rocker, and since these have the same profile, it shouldn't be an issue. But, since I am supposed to be getting my order Tomorrow, my plan is going to be to loosely mount the roller rockers tomorrow evening and check for clearance issues now. Without any pushrods in, I should get the maximum height out of them and if they fit then, they should fit fine when everythin is torqued down. I will probably have to put something on the Pushrod end to simulate the pressure the pushrod puts on them, but I will let you all know how that goes.
 






410Fortune

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I just went through this like yesterday.
My 1.6 FMS rollers do not hit using my HO 5.0L aluminum valve covers, with oil baffles removed. They also clear my TM headers.

I did not try checking clearance on the stock valve covers, basicalyl because I located the HO covers in like 4 minutes and they were free.
Section had the #5 cylinder hit on the outer edge and clearanced his stock valve cover with an air hammer.
 






Turdle

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Yes, it was the exhaust at 4 and the intake at 5 that hit on the valve end. This was with FMS Aluminm "COBRA" covers. I removed baffles and installed a plug type fill cap on drive side, and a oil seperator on passenger side, actually I think #5 intake was hitting the screw that mounted the baffle?
My wife just said tell him they hit- for sure
 






Cali' Explorer

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JTSmith-
On the Aluminum covers, are the baffles welded in or bolted in, just curious?
 






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mine were screwed on.

Damn now you got me worried about my covers....
 






Cali' Explorer

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410-
Haha, I wouldn't worry too much about your covers. I really have a feeling Section's issue is something else going on, as he's the only one I've heard of with the 5.0 that is having issues with the 1.6 (minus people who have over valve/cam upgrades). I wonder if it has something to do with Valve Covers that were torqued too much at one point or something.

Also, what kind of Valve Covers/Baffles did your Donor 5.0 come with? I know mine are the stamped steel ones, and the baffles are welded in. There appears to be plenty of room to "Modify" the baffles if need be, but I'm still hopeful that I won't have any issues.
 



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Cali' Explorer

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Ohh, there was something else I meant to mention. The Cylinder Heads are 90% painted.

I masked off all gasket mating surfaces (especially the block to Cylinder Head Surface). I found that if I masked everything off really well with overlap over the edges, I ccould then take a razor blade and scrape it along the edge and it would give me a perfect line. In the cases where this method didn't work, I made sure to have just a hair of paint get on the maiting surface and I am then just going to scrape the minor excess off (this is only on the Exhaust Manifold Face and the Accessory Brackets faces, so I'm not too concerned).

I went and picked up some Engine Enamel Primer and Semi-Gloss Black. I gave each Cylinder Head 2 coats of the primer, and then 2 coats of the Semi-Gloss Black. I will then go back tomorrow afternoon after they've baked in the some a bit and give them one more touch up coat of black. They look very nice. I only hope I will someday have the change to tear out the block and paint it to, but for now, that's not something I'm hoping to do, haha.
 






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