Another OHV M90 build

[Dono]

Thanks Rocket... so now I know.
James didnt say exactly what it was, and I didnt ask. I just figured he knew what wouldnt max out on air flow at wot on my motor.

Rocket, correct me if im wrong here. I think the main concern of a maf is to make sure that the 5v ( 0 to 5 volts, depending on air flow)doesnt max out to early so the sensor can be used to tune with. If it were to max out at 5volts before you were even at max air flow, there is nothing there to know where the air flow is at.

 

[jd4242]

Thanks Rocket... so now I know.
James didnt say exactly what it was, and I didnt ask. I just figured he knew what wouldnt max out on air flow at wot on my motor.

Rocket, correct me if im wrong here. I think the main concern of a maf is to make sure that the 5v ( 0 to 5 volts, depending on air flow)doesnt max out to early so the sensor can be used to tune with. If it were to max out at 5volts before you were even at max air flow, there is nothing there to know where the air flow is at.

see i thought this only happens when you use stock electronics in a larger maf that is not tuned for the increased airflow,even though its tuned at the computer.then i heard you have to use a diablo maf extender even if your ecm is tuned for it.i heard if you use maf that can be tuned for the air flow and ecm tuned, doesnt max the electronics out.so from what i understand there is only two ways to prevent maxing out,get a tuned unit or get a diablo maf extender.but im sure im about to get schooled ps you must have missed my ps on my post saying the maf was 90mm

see this is where i get confused,because if your intake manifold is 65mm ,then is there any benefit with going any larger after that?i wouldnt think so,i would think your only as good as your choke point
ps lightnings are 90mm

 

[Dono]

I posted, then read it. A bit backwards, but I saw it. Honestly, all I knew was that its pretty big.

Heres me trying to make sense of the MAF thing again...........
Im guessing that if your mafs too big, you might only use a voltage range from 0volts to 2 volts at wot. I think that could make it harder to make a detailed tune. Of course, this is just a sophisticated wild a$$ guess.

 

[jd4242]

I posted, then read it. A bit backwards, but I saw it. Honestly, all I knew was that its pretty big.

Heres me trying to make sense of the MAF thing again...........
Im guessing that if your mafs too big, you might only use a voltage range from 0volts to 2 volts at wot. I think that could make it harder to make a detailed tune. Of course, this is just a sophisticated wild a$$ guess.

think it all depends on size and airflow.with 90mm im sure you will never have this problem

 

[Dono]

nope, definately wont max out. Thats for sure.

 

[rocket 5979]

Thanks Rocket... so now I know.
James didnt say exactly what it was, and I didnt ask. I just figured he knew what wouldnt max out on air flow at wot on my motor.

Rocket, correct me if im wrong here. I think the main concern of a maf is to make sure that the 5v ( 0 to 5 volts, depending on air flow)doesnt max out to early so the sensor can be used to tune with. If it were to max out at 5volts before you were even at max air flow, there is nothing there to know where the air flow is at.

Yes that is the main requirement for going with a different MAFS. Of course you also want to make sure the physical size of it is not an airflow hindrance on your particular combo either. You have NOTHING to worry about the range of that MAFS. It will meter to 450rwhp+ no problem.

 

[rocket 5979]

see i thought this only happens when you use stock electronics in a larger maf that is not tuned for the increased airflow,even though its tuned at the computer.then i heard you have to use a diablo maf extender even if your ecm is tuned for it.i heard if you use maf that can be tuned for the air flow and ecm tuned, doesnt max the electronics out.so from what i understand there is only two ways to prevent maxing out,get a tuned unit or get a diablo maf extender.but im sure im about to get schooled ps you must have missed my ps on my post saying the maf was 90mm

There are a few proper ways to allow for your ECU to meter the added aircharge that your previous MAFS may have not been up to the task of doing.

First is to get an aftermarket MAFS that has a higher electronic metering range. Some examples popular amongst Ford owners include the L-MAF, 03-04 Cobra MAFS, SCT BA2400, 2600, 2800, 3000, or 5000, PMAS HPX meter, etc. Then you just install the new meter and have your custom tuner change the appropriate settings in the tune to dial your AFR's back in. There is NO need to recalibrate the MAFS electronics itself. That is a very old school approach that is 10+ years out of date now. Still that myth propagates on forums which sucks for guys like you who just don't know which is which yet.

The second approach is to use your stock MAFS electronics but install them into a bigger diameter housing. This will extend the range too but it will also decrease MAFS signal resolution as well which can become a trade off if you take MAFS electronics originally designed to work in a 2.75" tube and install it into a 4.5" one, for instance. Again, this will be recalibrated in the ECU tune itself and nowhere else.

The third approach is to keep your stock MAFS entirely and use a unit such as a Diablosport MAFia device which scales the voltage output signal a given amount from the MAFS that goes to the ECU depending on which setting you click it to. Again, your tuner will recalibrate everything in the ECU tune itself and nowhere else.

The ECM tune itself doesn't extend the range of the MAFS per se but it does recalibrate everything (airmass load calculations and the resulting AFR's) back into equilibrium once the different MAFS is installed that outputs a lower voltage signal at a given airflow.

 

[jd4242]

There are a few proper ways to allow for your ECU to meter the added aircharge that your previous MAFS may have not been up to the task of doing.

First is to get an aftermarket MAFS that has a higher electronic metering range. Some examples popular amongst Ford owners include the L-MAF, 03-04 Cobra MAFS, SCT BA2400, 2600, 2800, 3000, or 5000, PMAS HPX meter, etc. Then you just install the new meter and have your custom tuner change the appropriate settings in the tune to dial your AFR's back in. There is NO need to recalibrate the MAFS electronics itself. That is a very old school approach that is 10+ years out of date now. Still that myth propagates on forums which sucks for guys like you who just don't know which is which yet.

The second approach is to use your stock MAFS electronics but install them into a bigger diameter housing. This will extend the range too but it will also decrease MAFS signal resolution as well which can become a trade off if you take MAFS electronics originally designed to work in a 2.75" tube and install it into a 4.5" one, for instance. Again, this will be recalibrated in the ECU tune itself and nowhere else.

The third approach is to keep your stock MAFS entirely and use a unit such as a Diablosport MAFia device which scales the voltage output signal a given amount from the MAFS that goes to the ECU depending on which setting you click it to. Again, your tuner will recalibrate everything in the ECU tune itself and nowhere else.

The ECM tune itself doesn't extend the range of the MAFS per se but it does recalibrate everything (airmass load calculations and the resulting AFR's) back into equilibrium once the different MAFS is installed that outputs a lower voltage signal at a given airflow.

the thing is my truck is 20+ years old and for now ecm tuning is not an option,but good info for a 95+ truck with full tuning capability

 

[rocket 5979]

the thing is my truck is 20+ years old and for now ecm tuning is not an option,but good info for a 95+ truck with full tuning capability

Your truck ECM is tuneable too, it is just the datalogging the sensors is not going to be as easy as plugging into the OBD-II port like what the later model year trucks have. You can still chip your ECU and have someone who specializes in OBD-I tuning do the tune. It is not something I would completely rule out just yet if I were you. Just gotta look around for someone who can tune it. To put things into a little better perspective, I would say that even going with a new tuner who hasn't been tuning EFI for very long would be the better alternative than relying on pre-calibrated MAFS, bigger injectors, and totally stock ECU tuning to take care of things.

 

[jd4242]

Your truck ECM is tuneable too, it is just the datalogging the sensors is not going to be as easy as plugging into the OBD-II port like what the later model year trucks have. You can still chip your ECM and have someone who specializes in OBD-I tuning do the tune. It is not something I would completely rule out just yet if I were you. Just gotta look around for someone who can tune it.

yea i know

 

[Dono]

Ok, so its the 'resolution' you speak of that allows the lightning maf to be used in a lower flow application like mine. If anything, I was thinking the lightning maf was overkill. I would have been concerned, except for the fact that James said its the right one for my application (And he's the guy that gets to make it all play nice together).

I'm hoping that the throttle body is the last piece of the puzzle.

Believe it or not, I still can't find the barbed fittings for the vacuum/boost lines. I have ordered my 1/8mip x 1/4" barbed, but still cant find the 1/8mip x 1/8 barbed. Amazing to say the least. The standard on this stuff seems to be 1/4mip. I have time, so its no biggie. Worst case, I tap the holes larger.

 

[Dono]

So, after being to every pipe, and hose fitting shop in Winnipeg, I go to the 'Sprayer Supply Store' and ask for a 1/8mip x 1/8 barbed. The guy says 'How many do you want? I have 20 in the back'???? At the 'sprayer supply store'................REALLY????

So now I know where to get this stuff.

 

[rocket 5979]

Ok, so its the 'resolution' you speak of that allows the lightning maf to be used in a lower flow application like mine. If anything, I was thinking the lightning maf was overkill. I would have been concerned, except for the fact that James said its the right one for my application (And he's the guy that gets to make it all play nice together).

I'm hoping that the throttle body is the last piece of the puzzle.

Believe it or not, I still can't find the barbed fittings for the vacuum/boost lines. I have ordered my 1/8mip x 1/4" barbed, but still cant find the 1/8mip x 1/8 barbed. Amazing to say the least. The standard on this stuff seems to be 1/4mip. I have time, so its no biggie. Worst case, I tap the holes larger.

The L-MAF is just fine for your application even if you won't be using a good portion of its range. The main reason why you want to upgrade a MAFS like you did is for extra airflow metering range. However, you also want to ensure that the physical size of the MAFS tube isn't going to be a restriction for the airflow requirements of the combo. You are totally fine there too. Resolution is something that has to do with how smooth the signal is that is coming from the MAFS that can affect fueling accuracy. You don't have to worry about that either.

I don't want to go into too many details regarding the exact technical aspects as to how the different MAFS allows more metering range, how MAFS resolution is affected, and how the units like Diablo MAFia or other similar devices extend the range because most would be bored and confused with the discussion. The basic gist if that you got a good MAFS that will fit the requirements of your combo nicely.

 

[Dono]

Thanks Rocket.
Tonight I started by cleaning up the sc and giving it a quick paint.
Also started on roughing in the egr tube.
Kinda nice getting back in the garage.

 

[jd4242]

Thanks Rocket.
Tonight I started by cleaning up the sc and giving it a quick paint.
Also started on roughing in the egr tube.
Kinda nice getting back in the garage.

well lets see it

 

[Dono]

Not really much to see yet. Painted it the boreing Ford Grey. Have the temp sensor installed, and the all illusive vac barbs. The next big one will be the tb.

 

[jd4242]

Not really much to see yet. Painted it the boreing Ford Grey. Have the temp sensor installed, and the all illusive vac barbs. The next big one will be the tb.

You may know this but thats a 8rib pulley.stock is 6.you going to a 8 rib system?

 

[jd4242]

Also you figure out where your going to put the coil pack and sure you will need longer new wires also

 

[Dono]

I didn't think about the ribs on the belt. Shoot. I don't even know whats involved in that. Im sure getting a 6 rib pulley on the sc would be easiest, but what about slippage?

I figured Id cross the coil pack issue over a weekend 'rough in', and then put the original parts back till I get the other required parts. I know I'll need to make a bracket of some kind for coil pack, and I'll have to figure out the accelerator/cruise control cable mount also.

Yes, there will be a bit of head scratching to come.

 

[Dono]

Are you going with a smaller pulley JD? Any idea about what size I should get for mine? I think going 6 rib is best to try first. Thanks for catching that.