At my wits end. Water pump just will not come out - 3rd attempt..

[SteveRosenow]

Sooooo..

I am at my wits end and feeling defeated. I took some time off and away from the water pump replacement to gather some tools and the right hardware to do the job... The two bolts I am having problems with are the ones highlighted by the two yellow circles:

Here's the tools I decided to get, just in case I needed to get frisky...

1.) MAP gas torch to heat the bolts

2.) Stud removal tool. I bought the one at O'Reilly Auto (since I work there).

3.) Stripped bolt extractor sockets... These guys:

4.) Breaker bar extension

5.) Angle grinder with cutting wheel.

Sooo, tonight after I bought the last tool set I needed, I decided to get down and dirty with the water pump replacement attempt. The second try saw the studs which hold the two wire harness clips be sheared off via the stud extractor a week ago.

Tonight, things were much, much worse. The stud extractor managed to shear off the stud holding the pin for the wire harness clip on the right side of the water pump. This allowed me some wiggle room to try my hand at working the bolt extractor... Before I went in, I heated the bolt to nearly glowing, then waited for things to cool for a bit before getting in there... And that's where things took a turn for the worst.

Trying the breaker bar and the 13mm bolt extractor was an exercise in futility. Not only did the bolt head itself strip out into a rounded head, the bolt extractor itself rounded out! So now, I have a useless bolt extractor and a bolt head that just will not come out.

I've attached a photo of the left hand bolt below. The right hand bolt is a little better but will not budge!

I purchased a corded angle grinder to get in there thinking I'd have a bit of room. Sadly, I don't.

I don't want to remove the power steering pump and A/C compressor because I don't want to have ATF all over the engine nor do I have the means of evacuating the A/C system and recharging it.

What do I do? Drive around with Bars Leaks Liquid Aluminum for two weeks while I wait to have it taken to a shop?

I have the timing cover and water pump already and it is irritating me to no end.

 

[SWIGIN]

Since you have a new timing cover I would take a chisel and destroy the timing cover where those bolts go through. It is full of corrosion and once you open up the area you can start soaking it with your favorite penetrating oil.

 

[974X4BLACKSPORT]

If you need room, you can move the a/c compressor and power steering pump out of the way, just dont disconnect the lines to either accessory, just let them set to the side, be careful not to kink the lines/hoses or let them stretch, this will give you more room work.

 

[crunchie_frog]

as an alternative to chiseling, you could try to drill a couple of holes in the top side of the timing cover where the two bolts go through and fill it with penetrating oil, maybe even drill a hole or two on the bottom to allow some corrosion material to flush out. I am actually doing this job now and I was lucky to get my bolts to break free of the corrosion however I had to keep turning them after they were out of the threaded holes in the engine block and use a pry tool to keep them backing out.

 

[410Fortune]

yup @974X4BLACKSPORT nailed it
The whole drivers side accessory bracket is unbolted and moved over to the side, it can help to remove the battery....more room to work. You do not have to discharge the ac or disco the ps pump, just take the 3 bilg bolts out and move the whole apparatus over......

Those black sockets the stripped nut extractors are not that great (as you can see)
These are the ones to keep in the shop for extracting rounded off bolts:
https://www.amazon.com/Grip-Tite-Super-Sockets-Metric-Drive/dp/B003M68V6E

The stud extractor should not be used yet, until you have the heads of those bolts broken off and the timing cover pryed out of the way....then you will have a 1.5-2" stud to try and extract.

Dont forget in your list of tools you will also need a harmonic balance puller, to get the crank damper off the front of the engine.

If you twist the heads on those bolts they will break, then you can finally remove the water pump and pry the timing cover up and over and I do mean pry. This is why we recommend having a replacement cover ready.
DO NOT FORGET THE oil pan bolts that go vertically into the timing cover!! Look at your new timing cover you will see what I am talking about
Drain the oil pan, when you remove the timing cover coolant is going to pour out of the engine block and right into your oil pan, so I like to already have it empty with the drain plug removed so the coolant can drain directly out

A small die grinder like an air powered one MIGHT be able to get in there enough to cut through the water pump and timing cover to cut those studs, if all other attempts fail. First get the ac bracket out of the way so you have more room to attack this.
I like @crunchie_frog 's idea about drilling small holes and introducing the PB blaster, let it help eat away at the corrosion in there

I curse the 302 every time I have to do the water pump / timing cover or lower intake....this engine was first produced in 1969 and you are not the first to scratch their head at the studs entering the water jacket.
When you do put it all back together you will want THREAD SEALANT for the bolts that go into the water jacket. Not silicon, not lock tite, THREAD SEALANT....

Good luck, hang in there, and You can do this!!!

 

[Turdle]

Back and forth with those bolts, back out a little more each time counterclockwise, don;t be surprised to spend over an hour per bolt, slowly, back and forth. it'll come out. Slow is smooth----

 

[koda2000]

This is the point that I call "going mid evil on it". You have a new timing cover, W/P (and I assume new W/P bolts) so just do what you have to do to get the last of the bolt out. Once the timing cover is out of the picture the remainder of the bolt should come out of the block easily. It's the swelling that occurs inside the timing cover holes when the bolt rusts that cause the problem. If you have a plug-in style Dremel tool with a supply of the little cutting wheel disks you can cut the heads of the remaining bolts and cut up the timing cover as long as you can get at the part of it that's holding the bolt's shaft.

 

[SteveRosenow]

Back and forth with those bolts, back out a little more each time counterclockwise, don;t be surprised to spend over an hour per bolt, slowly, back and forth. it'll come out. Slow is smooth----

I tried that with these two and they would not budge at all.

 

[Josh P]

If you cut the head of the bolts off to remove the water pump and cover, could you double nut the stud to extract it?

 

[Blown98]

This isn't in too bad of a location.

Air chisel, extractor sockets, sawzall, use a 12 point socket and hammer it on as a sacrificial socket, weld a socket on....tons of options.

I used a snap-on kit, #bex13a, 2 days ago and it worked fantastic. The teeth in that are much more pronounced than the extractor sockets you posted.

Good luck!

 

[Hacra]

I think i will go and buy bolt induction heater before i attempt mine, these water pump change horror stories seem to justify the purchase.

 

[SteveRosenow]

This isn't in too bad of a location.

Air chisel, extractor sockets, sawzall, use a 12 point socket and hammer it on as a sacrificial socket, weld a socket on....tons of options.

I used a snap-on kit, #bex13a, 2 days ago and it worked fantastic. The teeth in that are much more pronounced than the extractor sockets you posted.

Good luck!

All of that would be wonderful if I had access to that sort of stuff!

 

[fast_dave]

Utilize a Reasonably Priced Rotary Tool w/ Carbide Wheel ($10 - 20 TOTAL) to cut off the nuts.

Pull off Water Pump and Timing Cover.

Heat exposed studs with a torch.

Hit studs where they go into the block with Penetrating Oil and allow it to wick in.

Heat studs again.

Hit studs where they go into the block with Penetrating Oil and allow it to wick in.

Try methods suggested by @Turdle and @Josh P

 

[koda2000]

I think i will go and buy bolt induction heater before i attempt mine, these water pump change horror stories seem to justify the purchase.

I don't believe an induction heater will help. As steel rusts it swells. That's what your fighting. Heating the bolts up will just make the swell more.

 

[imp]

If you cut the head of the bolts off to remove the water pump and cover, could you double nut the stud to extract it?

@Josh P
He could, except it's a BOLT head is it not? Cut off flush, no part of the bolt is left visible, but if the pump were slid off, the bolt could be grasped with big vise-grips. Nuts only if threaded clear to the head; that's not likely. imp

 

[SteveRosenow]

I don't believe an induction heater will help. As steel rusts it swells. That's what your fighting. Heating the bolts up will just make the swell more.

The thought behind heating up the bolts, even though that they are rusted, is that by heating them up, it will cause them to swell up, breaking the rust particles and freeing the bolt in the process.

 

[410Fortune]

I have tried heating them before, no luck, but its usually a last ditch effort. If one were to try the heat right away it might help?
I do want one of those bolt heaters...so handy to have in the shop!

Heating rusty nuts and bolts works very well for exhaust and stuff....a little more tricky here when the bolt is encapsulated inside the corrosion and aluminum housing, swelling just makes it tighter.....but you gotta try, I mean what can it hurt? Maybe you will cook some of the nasty corrosion out of there and break some of the rust off the bolt, enough so it un threads...worth a shot. If it makes it worse, then just let it cool down or use ice

 

[Hacra]

The thought behind heating up the bolts, even though that they are rusted, is that by heating them up, it will cause them to swell up, breaking the rust particles and freeing the bolt in the process.

With induction heater you have to be careful, specially if you have two different materials in question, melting point of aluminium is around 1200 degrees (F) and steel bolts start to glow red at 900 (F), if you over heat the bolts, you will surely get them out, with some aluminium goo on them. As soon as the steel bolts starts to glow red, i'd stop heating (it's actually recommended to stop before this).

 

[RoyKelly2]

yup @974X4BLACKSPORT nailed it
The whole drivers side accessory bracket is unbolted and moved over to the side, it can help to remove the battery....more room to work. You do not have to discharge the ac or disco the ps pump, just take the 3 bilg bolts out and move the whole apparatus over......

Those black sockets the stripped nut extractors are not that great (as you can see)
These are the ones to keep in the shop for extracting rounded off bolts:
https://www.amazon.com/Grip-Tite-Super-Sockets-Metric-Drive/dp/B003M68V6E

The stud extractor should not be used yet, until you have the heads of those bolts broken off and the timing cover pryed out of the way....then you will have a 1.5-2" stud to try and extract.

Dont forget in your list of tools you will also need a harmonic balance puller, to get the crank damper off the front of the engine.

If you twist the heads on those bolts they will break, then you can finally remove the water pump and pry the timing cover up and over and I do mean pry. This is why we recommend having a replacement cover ready.
DO NOT FORGET THE oil pan bolts that go vertically into the timing cover!! Look at your new timing cover you will see what I am talking about
Drain the oil pan, when you remove the timing cover coolant is going to pour out of the engine block and right into your oil pan, so I like to already have it empty with the drain plug removed so the coolant can drain directly out

A small die grinder like an air powered one MIGHT be able to get in there enough to cut through the water pump and timing cover to cut those studs, if all other attempts fail. First get the ac bracket out of the way so you have more room to attack this.
I like @crunchie_frog 's idea about drilling small holes and introducing the PB blaster, let it help eat away at the corrosion in there

I curse the 302 every time I have to do the water pump / timing cover or lower intake....this engine was first produced in 1969 and you are not the first to scratch their head at the studs entering the water jacket.
When you do put it all back together you will want THREAD SEALANT for the bolts that go into the water jacket. Not silicon, not lock tite, THREAD SEALANT....

Good luck, hang in there, and You can do this!!!

Yes unbolt the bracket and remove the battery to give yourself some room. I tie things back with baling wire or old metal coat hangers. I have changed a few water pumps on 302s and dread it each time. I am with 410Fortune 100% about the need for THREAD SEALANT on those bolts. I don't even want to count how many times I have cussed at the idiotic engineers that designed this thing that way in the past 30 years.

 

[DR]

Not my story but will add it to the list. A true shade tree mechanic that had the ways, means and knowledge welded a nut to the bolt not wanting to come out to get the job done. Good luck with your removal problem!