Auto Meter Gauges, Electrical or Mechanical?

[Mtn8er]

Well I'm getting ready to do some tranny work and just got done ordering my Baumann valve body kit. I already have 20 quarts of Amsoil ATF as well for when I get done installing it I will be doing a full system flush as well. Anyways, I want to get a new transmission pan to install with it all (a nice one that holds a few more quarts and has a drain plug) along with a transmission temp. gauge.

My question is, some of the transmission pans that I have been looking at have the option or already have a 1/8 NPT temperature sender port in the pan. Is this port for a mechanical gauge only or electrical? I understand you will get a more accurate transmission temp. reading by having the sender in the actual pan rather than putting a "T" up front in the transmission cooler line. So far I'm looking at the Mag-Hytec, PML, or Ford Racing pans.

Also, because these pans hold more fluid and are deeper will a stock transmission filter work or do you have to get some sort of filter extension? Anyone who has any of this stuff, let me know.

 

[jimbo74]

you can run mechanical or electrical.... i would run electrical... i owuld rather have wire run i nthe cab instead of live hydraulic lines... less to diagnose if there is ever a problem later

 

[IZwack]

x2 on the electrical gauge -- and technically a mechanical gauge with a hydraulic line ran up to the cab would give an innacurate reading as the fluid would have cooled by the time it reached gauge itself (just like usinf a "T" fitting as mentioned)

 

[Maniak]

This is the gauge I'm running. Its a 270 degree electrical temp gauge (most electric are 90 degree).

http://www.egauges.com/vdo_ind.asp?Type=Trans_Oil_Temp&Series=EVM_R&PN=R6859R

I even bought it from these people (ordered it monday, got it the same week).

Here is a pic of the one installed in our X.

~Mark

 

[Mtn8er]

Oh ok, good points. So my best bet would be to get a pan that has the 1/8" NPT temperature sender port in it and an electrical gauge to tap into that?

As far as the deep pans, what do you guys recommend? Can you use your stock filter with them?

I was looking at these...

PML:
http://www.yourcovers.com/tp_9685.shtml

Mag-Hytec:
http://mag-hytec.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=39

Both of those have the option or have the 1/8" NPT temperature sender port. I dont think the Ford Racing cover does.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ALUM...012QQitemZ220158120495QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

 

[IZwack]

I question the need to have a deep pan because having a deeper pan only increases the volume of oil but that additional volume cant be used by the transmission because the pickup doesnt reach down that far. If your intention of a deeper pan is for lower temperature, then maybe a small fan at the aux cooler will do a better job. Thats the setup I have on my Explorer, using a small fan from a first generation Toyota Supra.

If you have access to a wire fed welder (or a TIG), or know some one who does, you can add your own 1/8" NPT fitting (called a "weld bung") to the stock pan and call it good. Here's a great Ebay seller that I bought my weld bungs from: http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZkwmachineltd

I bought two 1/2" NPT and one 1/8" NPT fitting from that guy. In the picture above, the 1/8" NPT is the one on the right with a temperature sender/sensor on it. If you dont see the 1/8" bung in his E-bay store, E-mail him -- he sells each bung for like $3 each (+ shipping).

EDIT -- just for the sake of accuracy, the other two bungs arent 1/2" NPT. I checked and they are actually 3/8" NPT

 

[Mtn8er]

I question the need to have a deep pan because having a deeper pan only increases the volume of oil but that additional volume cant be used by the transmission because the pickup doesnt reach down that far. If your intention of a deeper pan is for lower temperature, then maybe a small fan at the aux cooler will do a better job. Thats the setup I have on my Explorer, using a small fan from a first generation Toyota Supra.

If you have access to a wire fed welder (or a TIG), or know some one who does, you can add your own 1/8" NPT fitting (called a "weld bung") to the stock pan and call it good. Here's a great Ebay seller that I bought my weld-in bungs from: http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZkwmachineltd

I bought two 1/2" NPT and one 1/8" NPT fitting from that guy. In the picture above, the 1/8" NPT is the one on the right with a temperature sender/sensor on it.

Well I was also planning on installing a B&M trans cooler with a remote mount trans filter. You think, between the 2 trans. coolers (stock and B&M) there would be no need for a deep transmission pan?

 

[IZwack]

You think, between the 2 trans. coolers (stock and B&M) there would be no need for a deep transmission pan?

I dont think you need the deep pan. I mean as I said, it increases the volume but unfortunately, I dont think the pickup reaches down into the pan that far. Just get the B&M that has the fan behind it and I'm sure you'll be good to go.

 

[IZwack]

Oh and be careful if you're brewing your own guage system and start mixing and matching senders and gauges. There are different sender resistance levels so if you use the wrong one, the gauge will be reporting the wrong temp.

So for example, in my application (which was for a steering unit), I used (all SummitRacing part #s)
VDO-310709 -- 150-300 degree gauge
VDO-323057 -- 0-300 degree sender

Typically, if you go with one company for the guage and sender, then you wont have any problems...

 

[Mtn8er]

Oh and be careful if you're brewing your own guage system and start mixing and matching senders and gauges. There are different sender resistance levels so if you use the wrong one, the gauge will be reporting the wrong temp.

So for example, in my application (which was for a steering unit), I used (all SummitRacing part #s)
VDO-310709 -- 150-300 degree gauge
VDO-323057 -- 0-300 degree sender

Typically, if you go with one company for the guage and sender, then you wont have any problems...

Oh ok, Yeah I already have a few Auto Meter gauges I like I just have to decide on which one. I think they all come with the different size senders though.

I was looking at the B&M coolers with fans and those are expensive. You think I would even need one with a fan? All this is for is street performance (also to keep the tranny a little cooler since it is better for it). I was looking at just doing something like this:

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127283&highlight=tranny+filter+relocation

I was doing some measuring. The stock 4r70w pan hangs down 2". If I were to get a deep pan there anywhere from 4"-4 3/4". That would be hanging down pretty far!

I'm thinking, the PML low-profile pan then? It would hang down 2.89" where stock is 2".

http://www.yourcovers.com/tp_9324.shtml

 

[IZwack]

If the B&M+fan is out of your budget, then dont get it. Especially since it doesnt sound like you'll be doing much towing.

But yeah that PML low-profile is looking very good (design and price).

 

[Maniak]

I am now running two coolers (24,000 gvwr and 30,000 gvwr) in series with a aux filter installed before them.

My trans temps droped 10F-20F (pan temp) by adding the 2nd cooler and external filter(over having just the single 24k gvwr cooler).

I am using Plate style coolers from "Permacool" and I have a 10" fan on the 30gvwr cooler (I used to have it in front of the 24k cooler).

Soo.. the flow is from the trans to the external filter to the 30k gvwr cooler to the 24k gvwr cooler back to the trans..

~Mark

 

[Mtn8er]

I am now running two coolers (24,000 gvwr and 30,000 gvwr) in series with a aux filter installed before them.

My trans temps droped 10F-20F (pan temp) by adding the 2nd cooler and external filter(over having just the single 24k gvwr cooler).

I am using Plate style coolers from "Permacool" and I have a 10" fan on the 30gvwr cooler (I used to have it in front of the 24k cooler).

Soo.. the flow is from the trans to the external filter to the 30k gvwr cooler to the 24k gvwr cooler back to the trans..

~Mark

Thats alot by just adding another cooler. I was looking at these:

B&M cooler:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=BMM-70264

Perma-Cool remote filter:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=PRM-10678

 

[Maniak]

Thats a plate style cooler (the better kind), BUT its 1.5" thick. You won't be able to put a fan between that and the grill of your truck. My 24kgvwr cooler was about that size (only 3/4 thick).. my 30k is 11x11x 3/4". That means the cooler your looking at can cool more, but only when there is air flow through it (which is why I used the fan on one of the coolers).

That cooler your looking at is pretty big and pretty easy to install (single piece of strap metal between the core support and the metal off to the side should do it)..

I learned that using the push through style mounts doesn't really work well and make it a pain if you need to pull/move your radiator or a/c AND they put the heat of the a/c condensor too close to the trans cooler.

Oh.. btw.. I got Hayden coolers, not permacool (I looked at the permacool fan before I got the geo prism fan).

This is the new (bigger) cooler I added
http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/m...ategory_Code=hayden-transaver&Product_Count=3

~Mark

 

[Mtn8er]

Thats a plate style cooler (the better kind), BUT its 1.5" thick. You won't be able to put a fan between that and the grill of your truck. My 24kgvwr cooler was about that size (only 3/4 thick).. my 30k is 11x11x 3/4". That means the cooler your looking at can cool more, but only when there is air flow through it (which is why I used the fan on one of the coolers).

Well I don't think I'll need a fan, mainly my vehicle is for street performance. I already have the stock trans cooler and by adding a 2nd one I figure it would help with temperature. Especially while driving (when there's air flow to go through it).

 

[Mtn8er]

But yeah that PML low-profile is looking very good (design and price).

Well I just called PML to order it and he actually talked me out of it and to think about it lol. I guess where the drain plug and sender hole is located on the PML pan...it's on the passenger side "right where the exhaust runs". He said that a few Explorer owners have complained because of this. Basically the sender and wiring for the gauge is right next to the hot exhaust pipe on the passenger side and when you do want to drain your trans oil it's going to squirt straight out the side all over the exhaust, SOUNDS GREAT! :thumbdwn:

So I just called Mag-Hytec and their closed until tomorrow so I'm going to look into those now.

 

[Glacier991]

I generally add deeper pans to the custom 4R70W's I build. I also strongly recommend add on coolers and for off-roading a fan too...in fact for off-roading a fan is mandatory in my view.

The additional fluid gives you more volume and a good cooler will provide a sump of cooler fluid... call it thermal mass, call it more fluid to last longer, call it stupid... Oh and a 4X4 filter is fine.

 

[IZwack]

Well I just called PML to order it and he actually talked me out of it and to think about it lol. I guess where the drain plug and sender hole is located on the PML pan...it's on the passenger side "right where the exhaust runs". He said that a few Explorer owners have complained because of this. Basically the sender and wiring for the gauge is right next to the hot exhaust pipe on the passenger side and when you do want to drain your trans oil it's going to squirt straight out the side all over the exhaust, SOUNDS GREAT! :thumbdwn: .

The deeper pan might solve that issue as the drain and temp sensor tap are a few inches lower.

But thats pretty cool that PML actually talked you out of buying one of their products . I mean at least they're honest and not just trying to take people's money for a small design flaw.

 

[Mtn8er]

The deeper pan might solve that issue as the drain and temp sensor tap are a few inches lower.

But thats pretty cool that PML actually talked you out of buying one of their products . I mean at least they're honest and not just trying to take people's money for a small design flaw.

Yeah I got to get under there and do some measuring. I might go with the Mag-Hytec pan...I also have to consider, regardless the drain plug is on the side of the PML pan meaning that every time you drain it it's going to shoot straight out making it hard to catch the oil. Some of the other pans that have the drain plug right there on the bottom of the pan makes more sense...the fluid can only go one way and thats down.

Do you or anyone know what the average transmission temerature is and where this is measured at? I've been reading up on where the best place is to put the sender for the temperature gauge and there's mixed reviews. Some people say the best place is in the pan, some say in the "test port" and others say in the HOT line running to the cooler. Which one is it and will give you the most accurate readings?

 

[IZwack]

Do you or anyone know what the average transmission temerature is and where this is measured at? I've been reading up on where the best place is to put the sender for the temperature gauge and there's mixed reviews. Some people say the best place is in the pan, some say in the "test port" and others say in the HOT line running to the cooler. Which one is it and will give you the most accurate readings?

Glacier would be the one to know for sure.

But yeah I see the conflicting answers because technically, I think the fluid in the pan is the fluid that was JUST at the aux cooler so technically, its been cooled down. But thats just my assumption, Glacier knows the exact route the fluid goes.