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Auto Start-Stop Technology...Please NO!

peterk9

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If the socialists like it and real Americans don’t want it .......
So if some people do like it, you're saying they aren't real Americans. That makes absolutely no sense at all. Please expand on your statement of the "unsafe nature".

Peter




...
 
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Napalm

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DUDE you show you're from Canada do you even want to open this can o crap. :dpchug:
 

RhinoQuartz

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DUDE you show you're from Canada do you even want to open this can o crap. :dpchug:
Do you understand the definitions of the words you're using?

And if you're going to troll, mind doing it elsewhere?
 

Napalm

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Yeah OK I'm a socialist because I want to save some duckets on fuel that keeps going up for no good reason, by using some modern technology that brings other good things to my new vehicle.

Trolls be trolls.
 

Napalm

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Do you understand the definitions of the words you're using?

And if you're going to troll, mind doing it elsewhere?
my response to peter is in jest - hence the smiley I used. I assume he read it that way too. I r not the troll.
 

blwnsmoke

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Yeah OK I'm a socialist because I want to save some duckets on fuel that keeps going up for no good reason, by using some modern technology that brings other good things to my new vehicle.

Trolls be trolls.
Whether one wants it or not (again, disable it via forscan), it saves fuel. Manufacturers would not use extra (complicated) technology if it didnt save fuel economy (epa ratings)
 

AdrenalineJunky

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Other than at lengthy and numerous stops I believe it would save some fuel, minimally. However, if you drive in those conditions you might consider a hybrid or full ev. I need an SUV particularly a AWD or 4wd because I live in northern rural and have zero desire or benefits from this system. Its built into the price so it's now a detriment. If it were a stand alone option my hunch is that sales would never sustain it. The built in cost paid, you will never realize any savings. This stuff is getting pushed by forces other than market.
 

blwnsmoke

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Other than at lengthy and numerous stops I believe it would save some fuel, minimally. However, if you drive in those conditions you might consider a hybrid or full ev. I need an SUV particularly a AWD or 4wd because I live in northern rural and have zero desire or benefits from this system. Its built into the price so it's now a detriment. If it were a stand alone option my hunch is that sales would never sustain it. The built in cost paid, you will never realize any savings. This stuff is getting pushed by forces other than market.
Why is it a detriment?
 

Mbrooks420

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Other than at lengthy and numerous stops I believe it would save some fuel, minimally. However, if you drive in those conditions you might consider a hybrid or full ev. I need an SUV particularly a AWD or 4wd because I live in northern rural and have zero desire or benefits from this system. Its built into the price so it's now a detriment. If it were a stand alone option my hunch is that sales would never sustain it. The built in cost paid, you will never realize any savings. This stuff is getting pushed by forces other than market.
If it’s such a detriment, and you’re so offended by it’s inclusion, spend your money on a different brand of SUV. Capitalism is great.
 

AdrenalineJunky

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Why is it a detriment?
Because its built into price. Which btw is up what 8k? I dont like it want it or need it, but have to pay for it. Like I said, if it were an option selected and paid for, it would fail.
 

Flying68

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Because its built into price. Which btw is up what 8k? I dont like it want it or need it, but have to pay for it. Like I said, if it were an option selected and paid for, it would fail.
Auto Stop/Start is very smooth from what I have experienced. I don't buy any argument that it is a safety issue, unless you stop on RR tracks (which is dumb in any case). Also you are not going to have much luck finding a new vehicle from almost any manufacturer that doesn't have it or let's you turn it off and leave it off. It is one of the ways they can give you more power while maintaining emissions and mpg requirements.

It is disingenuous to imply that feature drove the price increase you stated. There are many other things that drive that price difference that have nothing to do with Auto Stop/Start.
 

blwnsmoke

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Because its built into price. Which btw is up what 8k? I dont like it want it or need it, but have to pay for it. Like I said, if it were an option selected and paid for, it would fail.
Up $400 on the base model, next..
 

Napalm

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Well I have to say I'm more and more curious about the plug in hybrid model of the explorer coming.


meanwhile on the start stop system - don't some of the 18 and 19 models have it now. I assume they do their engine counterparts on other platforms do.

So it's not introduced on the 2020 model. Also you're lucky Ford includes a button on the US cars. and Lucky it disengages to maintain Cabin comfort temp - something most Asian market cars, sold by asian companies don't do.

Maybe I don't know research something else.
 

blwnsmoke

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Well I have to say I'm more and more curious about the plug in hybrid model of the explorer coming.


meanwhile on the start stop system - don't some of the 18 and 19 models have it now. I assume they do their engine counterparts on other platforms do.

So it's not introduced on the 2020 model. Also you're lucky Ford includes a button on the US cars. and Lucky it disengages to maintain Cabin comfort temp - something most Asian market cars, sold by asian companies don't do.

Maybe I don't know research something else.
Explorer PHEV is not for the US market. 5th gen never had start/stop but majority of Ford vehicles now have it.
 

AdrenalineJunky

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Auto Stop/Start is very smooth from what I have experienced. I don't buy any argument that it is a safety issue, unless you stop on RR tracks (which is dumb in any case). Also you are not going to have much luck finding a new vehicle from almost any manufacturer that doesn't have it or let's you turn it off and leave it off. It is one of the ways they can give you more power while maintaining emissions and mpg requirements.

It is disingenuous to imply that feature drove the price increase you stated. There are many other things that drive that price difference that have nothing to do with Auto Stop/Start.
No it's not. Prices of all vehicles have steadily and substantially increased. There is a price on these components and its most definitely not free. If it were an option as in selectable or not, it would not sell. You all know it.

The Real Reason Stop/Start Systems Won’t Stay Turned Off | News | Car and Driver
 

Mbrooks420

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No it's not. Prices of all vehicles have steadily and substantially increased. There is a price on these components and its most definitely not free. If it were an option as in selectable or not, it would not sell. You all know it.

The Real Reason Stop/Start Systems Won’t Stay Turned Off | News | Car and Driver
I think he means the feature had nothing to do with your *claimed* increase if $8,000. If you don’t like it, don’t buy one. This is how you are able to still buy something with performance. They eek out more fleet MPG, as required to meet EPA regulations. The other option is economy based motors and tunes across the board. You have four choices as I see it.

1. Live with it.
2. Turn it off every driving cycle.
3. Get a custom tune to remove it.(if you can’t disable via FORScan)
4. Buy something else.

It won’t be long before this is standard equipment across the board.
 

Napalm

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Explorer PHEV is not for the US market. 5th gen never had start/stop but majority of Ford vehicles now have it.
Supposedly but the Aviator model does get a PHEV option in the US so give it time or whatever. Also heard while the PHEV was going to debut first in EU - because taxes - it would end up in the US in a year or 2 regardless.

Don't the 18 and up explorers with the 2.3L ecoboost have start stop? If not it would be the only application of that motor without it. Not sure about the focus RS - it might not either but it's not the exact same engine either.
 

Napalm

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No it's not. Prices of all vehicles have steadily and substantially increased. There is a price on these components and its most definitely not free. If it were an option as in selectable or not, it would not sell. You all know it.

The Real Reason Stop/Start Systems Won’t Stay Turned Off | News | Car and Driver
well no. Yes the prices go up and no I don't agree with it. But it's partially inflation and it's partially US and other country Regulations. ALso marketing feature sets is another issue.

But specific to start stop - the car won't sell in places like Asia or Europe without - period. So just worldplatform marketing alone it had to be developed.

Also nothing in the system is novel to the car other than some ECU/PCM (pick your term) logic. The pedal sensors were always there, the starter motor isn't actually much different if at all, the battery might have grown a touch, the alternator output is unchanged usually. Biggest difference is I'll admit the logic and testing that went into timing the fuel and spark cutoffs - so the engine stops in the easiest rotating point to restart. And it's more than one spot mind you.

And the reason they want the system armed (active) by normal use - is because they get credit for it in their city MPG numbers to meed CAFE, EU, and Japan emissions and mpg requirements. Remember that worldcar thing again. It if it wasn't active with normal operation - they can't take credit for it in the testing if it requires the driver to activate it.
 

Flying68

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No it's not. Prices of all vehicles have steadily and substantially increased. There is a price on these components and its most definitely not free. If it were an option as in selectable or not, it would not sell. You all know it.

The Real Reason Stop/Start Systems Won’t Stay Turned Off | News | Car and Driver
Do you even have a vehicle with Auto Stop/Start? Have you driven one? If so, what brand (you don't list an Explorer or any Ford product in your profile). I drove a 2019 Expedition and the Auto Stop/Start is very smooth and didn't affect anything on normal driving, same with the Navigator I drove. I starts the engine immediately as you lift the brake and accelerates normally as you push on the accelerator. Like has been mentioned before, it is virtually required now to meet newer emissions and MPG requirements. There will probably be a time coming where it can't be turned off.
 
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blwnsmoke

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Do you even have a vehicle with Auto Stop/Start? Have you driven one? If so, what brand (you don't list an Explorer or any Ford product in your profile). I drove a 2019 Expedition and the Auto Stop/Start is very smooth and didn't affect anything on normal driving, same with the Navigator I drove. I starts the engine immediately as you lift the brake and accelerates normally as you push on the accelerator. Like has been mentioned before, it is virtually required now to meet newer emissions and MPG requirements. There will probably be a time coming where it can't be turned off.
Your experience mirrors mine with my Expedition and Navigator rentals which I have posted a few times for the nay sayers.
 



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