Auto Trans pan gasket leak.

[pugsy]

So I had a ATF leak and brought it to a shop to see if they could pinpoint it. They said it was the pan gasket and it was most likely the original!! So they changed it, and now it only leaks from the back of the pan. Looked at the tranny and it doesn't look all that wet above the pan, so thinking the culprit was the gasket.
But what are the chances of them not properly seating the gasket? If there's a small warp in the pan, can it be fixed, if so, how?
I'm going back on Sat. morning for them to take a look and want to be prepared for their hairbrain comments of why it leaks still after they changed the gasket.
Any input welcome!!
Thx

 

[sn0border88]

want to be prepared for their hairbrain comments of why it leaks still
Thx

First of all, I would try not being a smartass. Odds are they know more about transmissions that you ever will. its possible the didnt torque it right, or more likely it got over torqued (tightened with an impact gun) and squashed the gasket. It could be warped from something, and it would make it next to impossible for just a cork gasket to seal that. Maybe it wasnt all cleaned off properly before the new one was on, there are a hundred things it could be. Take a closer look at the trans/trans case gasket, I just replaced mine and it made it look like the pad was dripping.

 

[pugsy]

Ya...I know it could be all those things. The thing is that they should've done it right the FIRST time. They should've torqued to spec, check the pan for warps, cleaned the mating surface. I would've done it myself but didn't want to make a mess in the driveway. The thing that pisses me off the most is that they charged me $40 for the ATF!!! Seriously, for 4 quarts maybe...ridicolus. They also changed the invoice after I approved the repairs...tried to make a 24 look like a 34 to get an extra 10 bucks outta me. $7 to dispose of the used ATF....come on...you F'n serious???
I wouldn't call it being a smart ass....I call it knowing my truck and knowing how to run a business!! I love when repair shops try to pull the wool over my eyes!! lol I don't know what they were thinking!

 

[BrooklynBay]

Do you have a torque wrench? If so, I would suggest that you climb under the truck to see if those bolts are properly torqued. Check the side of the gasket to see what kind of "quality" they installed. Cork isn't that great. Neoprene requires gasket paste which takes time to harden before filling it up with ATF. Rubber doesn't need any paste. It will leak if it has paste.

 

[pugsy]

Thanks Brooklyn. I will check it out...I'm thinking I may have to re-do this job myself. I'm not paying the shop any more $$. What's torque spec on the pan bolts? I think I've read around 130 inch lbs. That right? I don't have a "light" duty torque wrench...how does that feel by hand? Just snug?

 

[BrooklynBay]

You could get a torque wrench from Sears, Harbor Freight, Home Depot, Autozone, etc. I think the bolts are 10 Ft/Lbs. Use a little thread lock on the bolts to prevent them from getting loose, and causing leakage at a later date.

 

[trucku]

I didn't know shops charge to dispose of oil. In NY they cant charge for that.

Yeah it sucks when you know you could have done it better yourself.

 

[BrooklynBay]

Some shops have waste oil heaters. They store oil in the summer to burn in the winter. It's like having free heat.

 

[pugsy]

So I went back to the shop this morning. They took a look at it and said the leak wasn't coming from the new gasket anymore. They told me it was the seals on the servo's that are leaking now. How convienient that they "forgot" to tell me this on Wed. when I had it in the first time.
Anyhow...I have my doubts so I didn't give them anymore of my money nor will I in the future. I went to check the fluid when I got home, and the dipstick was laying on my engine still!! haha...great workmanship. I will replace the cheap cork gasket with a new rubber one first, torque to spec, then see if it still leaks.
Thanks for the replies!

 

[BrooklynBay]

Clean the area where the servos are just in case there is a chance of them leaking.

 

[pugsy]

How many is there? Just the 2 on the passenger side of the tranny? My leak now seems to be more pronounced towards the back of the pan. Is there any seals on the back of the tranny? Any good links to a diagram of the A4LD?

 

[93TwotoneXLT]

As someone with plenty of automotive know-how, a few differnent torque wrenches, not knowing the phrase "I would have done it myself but...", and very few excuses, I would suggest taking the explorer to a different shop. You obviously don't know much about what you are doing.

 

[BrooklynBay]

The rear (right at the point where the body meets the extension housing) of the transmission has an over fill vent on the top. It could leak if you tried to add ATF with the engine off, or if it's over filled.

 

[BrooklynBay]

Here are some A4LD pictures:

The picture on the left has a 4X4 housing while the one on the right is for rear wheel drive only. Notice the different pans in addition to the extension housings.

 

[pugsy]

Thanks Brooklyn!! Appreciate it!!
No need for the wise cracks woton...this site is also where you can "learn" about your truck. I don't see any input from you either???? I refuse to spend more $$ on this at a shop when it's not my daily driver.

 

[93TwotoneXLT]

That's TwoTone, not woton. You said it yourself, this is a learning website. Since you have much to learn when it comes to transmissions I would not go blasting away at the first trans shop that tells you the leak is not coming from where you think it is. I run a Lincoln-Mercury service facility, so I can tell you that leaks from the middle of a transmission generally end up at the back of the pan, due to the transmission being mounted at a slight downhill angle and gravity being what it is. I don't mean to make wisecracks, but you yourself admit to not knowing much about tranny's, yet the first thing you do when someone who works on them for a living is dismiss what they say because you don't like the sound of it. Now THAT is what making a wisecrack really is.

 

[sn0border88]

x2

And I bet if you took that same attitude with the persons at the shop, it may be a cause as to why you got the treatment you did.

 

[pugsy]

My bad...sorry for the name thing...was early in the morning!! Thanks for your input twotone, it would've been welcome on the first post! And I never claimed to know where the leak was coming from...the pan gasket is where the shop told me it was leaking from - who am I to argue!! I didn't get bad treatment. But...can you tell me why they waited untill the SECOND time I brought it back to tell me I had a servo seal leak and required additional work? If they work on these for a living as you've said, don't you think they would of seen it the first time and know that it wasn't the pan gasket leaking and fixed the job right the FIRST time???? Or checked it before sending me on my way thinking my leak was fixed?? I had to kill another morning to bring it back. Now I've spent $$ and I'm no better off then when I stepped foot in the shop - does that make sense to you as someone that runs a service facility? I have no problems with the shop (other then their pricing as I've mentioned in earlier posts), I just have no patience for paying for incompentance and paying for "unnecassary" work.
If I get the servo seal work done from them. Who's to say that will stop the leak???
Anyhow....just my 2 cents.

 

[93TwotoneXLT]

It is possible that the shop was quick to just replace the pan gasket without really checking out the transmission for any other leaks and call it a day. If that is the case then I agree with you without arguement. However, it is also possible that by fixing one leak the transmission developed another. Transmission pumps maintain high line pressures in order for the valve body(brain) to work properly and engage each gear effectively. Since the transmission is under high pressure, and since I am sure your Ex has plenty of miles on it, the pan gasket may have been leaking fluid while also relieving pressure inside of the tranny. I have seen plenty of instances where replacing one gasket on an engine or transmission ends up causing other leaks that may not have been there before. As an example, lets say that one of my techs finds that the front pump seal is leaking on a 4r70 Town Car tranny. No other gaskets on the tranny are leaking at the time so we replace the front pump seal and tranny pan gasket and filter while we are in there, might as well right? Two weeks later the same car comes back in now leaking from the extension housing. In a perfect world the customer would have the disposable income to replace all of the seals that can possibly leak on a older tranny with 100K+ miles on it. Unfortunately, you replace the seal that is leaking at the time the car is in and hope the others hold up, because if you tell the customer all of the seals should be replaced then you are "just trying to rape them for all they have" even though as someone who realizes that cars are built by people on earth and not angels in heaven another seal is probably going to let go in the near future. Check the different posts on here about tranny modulators. Many people replace defective modulators due to tranny fluid leaking into the intake only to have the tranny detonate on them soon after. Those who replaced the modulators themselves know they are the ones who replaced it and blame nothing but the tranny for grenading. Have the same work done at a shop and all of the sudden the tech must have "done something, or something wrong" to make the tranny explode. My reccomendation is to find a lift, remove the tranny, rebuild it with all new seals, clutches, frictions, valve body componets, various hard parts, etc, then re-install it and hope that you didn't forget anything. Should fix everything. Of course a band could break, front pump fail, trash left in the lines,....

 

[pugsy]

Agreed! Thanks for the reply, I know myself and many others on here appreciate when people post on how things work, etc.
But, I will not be re-sealing the whole tranny. There's no driveablity issues, I will continue to top it up every month or so. It's not getting dropped until there's a serious driving issue (it's a secondary vehicle). For now, a board will catch the drips, and I will monitor for more serious problems. It's been leaking for almost 2 years now (maybe longer, that's only how long I've had it for) with no reprecussion.