Bkennedy's SAS and Rebuild Thread

[BKennedy]

OK, so good idea to get the axle at 4* positive instead of a little over 7*

Now, how about the brake question??????????

 

[Rick]

I think it's one of those things that can't be positively determined until you try it. It will steer better in the tight stuff. It may not drive as well on the highway, but it may not be enough difference to notice at 70 mph... Only one way to find out

 

[FR-425]

Is the anti-rattle clip on top or bottom of the inside pad? I remember it only fitting one way. I can't find any diagram of the front brakes for a 1976 Ford F-150 on the interweb.[/B][/COLOR]

Yes, Bottom.

 

[FR-425]

This is what 15*'s of "Negative" caster will get you.

The Red lines I added would be the wheel tilt for 15* of "Positive" caster.

Negative caster = upper ball joint behind the lower.

Positive caster = upper ball joint in front of the lower.

Your 44 is Negative caster orientation.

So the more caster the more tilt, and the greater the force of "return-to center".

Positive caster is undesirable for off road use because the "outer" wheel is tilted in such a way when turning as to push the tire off the rim or push the rim down onto the rocks.

You will see Positive caster on very long wheel base vehicles to improve turning radius.

The return-to center force is the most important factor for you. With oversize tires, more is better. Helps with highway speed wander by having a very high return-to-center force.

I'd stick with 7*

 

[FR-425]

But if you need to compromise for the pinion angle 4* will do.

Unless you want to pull the axle out and have the diff turned.

 

[BKennedy]

But if you need to compromise for the pinion angle 4* will do.

Unless you want to pull the axle out and have the diff turned.

I think you got the positive and negative mixed up. From Wild Horses 4x4:

Item #: Caster

Caster Angle
The caster angle is defined as the number of degrees backward (positive) or forward (negative) of the tilt of the king pins (Dana 30) or ball joints (Dana 44) in relation to a vertical line through the center of the front end.

Caster correction on lifts over 3.5"
These are our observations from years of building early Broncos. We know there are always exceptions to the rules, but we have noticed about 90% of Broncos with wandering problems are the result of incorrect caster. The specification for Bronco caster is +4 to +9 . When the Bronco is lifted the caster will move in the negative direction. Properly installed degreed C-bushings will move the caster back in the positive direction. Because of the caster issue about 50% of Broncos going to a 4.5" lift and most Broncos going to a 5.5" lift will need more caster correction than the standard 7 degree C-bushing. The additional correction can be addressed in a number of ways. These three are the most common.

1. Radius arm drop brackets: Only drawback with this method is the unavoidable loss of ground clearance.
2. Long radius arms: This is the most common method of correcting caster on taller lifts. Advantages include maintaining ground clearance, additional articulation off-road and improved handling.
3. Bending the stock radius arms: We know this is old school, but long before degreed C-bushings people were lifting Broncos and bending the stock arms to achieve good caster.

The D44 is positive caster oriented. The Duff radius arms I got have a built in 4* positive caster for lifted vehicles. I used an additional 7* positive C bushings upon the advice of Duff. I also have a set of 4* bushings at the house.
Mine is now sitting at a little over 7* positive. That is orientating the yoke down. If I replace the bushings I currently have installed with 3* less caster bushings, I should get roughly 4-5* positive, which is more suited for off-road use. It will turn better and move the yoke up, giving me a better driveline angle. I will have to change them out in a few weeks and see how it drives down the freeway.

 

[BKennedy]

Right, exactly what I said, but of course I am just 180* out.

Old school I guess we always called - upper ball joint behind the lower - Negative.

Today I did the unthinkable................................ I welded on a J&*p. Not just any J^#p though, but Mike's green machine. He has the only one in captivity that does not have a bolt-on gas can mount available for his rear bumper. So, we made one today. A double can even...It came out awesome.

How to put these....

Between the spare and the back window.........

Do this...........

To make This..........

It's nearly perfectly level when the tire carrier is closed. Took about five hours total.

Then.......I spent some more time on the Explorer. Had to pull my incredible wiring job back apart to find the wire that goes to the windshield washer pump. Found it just as I was giving up, it was cut off all the way at the back of the harness, I guess I got a little snip happy towards the end. Hooked it all up and it works!! One less thing. Then, put it all back together. Also got the fuse panel and relays covered with some rubber sheeting that I can easily pull out of the way for access.

Oh, and if you ever are considering purchasing a Smittybuilt gas can carrier, don't. Total POS (x2). Has a bunch of little rubber tabs that fell off throughout the day, bolt holes were not square, and it was about an inch too wide all the way around for the new style gas cans. I wanted to split them down the middle and cut an inch out, but Mike wanted them as is so if he ever finds any old style cans they will fit.

 

[Stic-o]

To all you Ford brake, Dana 44 crowd:
Take a look at your brakes. Is the anti-rattle clip on top or bottom of the inside pad? I remember it only fitting one way. I can't find any diagram of the front brakes for a 1976 Ford F-150 on the interweb.

I still owe you a answer on this. I don't even remember a clip though.

 

[BKennedy]

I dig the Green Machine.... ... . .

That reminds me, I need to give him the winch cable I took off mine when I switched to synthetic rope. His is all ratty looking and he is too cheap to replace it.

Today I had time to either:

Install the rock lights (need to weld four tabs down each underside of the Explorer, then mount the lights and wire them up. Would take all day.

Or, make a camp / lunch table.

I made a camp / lunch table. It slips over the square tubing on the tire carrier. very sturdy. Made it to fit between the cage's "C" pillar down tube and the trim panel for storage. Height is perfect for me.

My old graveyard partner, Mike (green machine pilot) and I are taking a trip we have been planning for a few years, down the Mojave Road, next week. Long road trip, mild wheeling, great scenery, epic adventure. No females allowed, except the dog. Just two rigs, with no passengers. We are making it a five day run so we can take our time and some side trips. Great shake down run for the Explorer and all its new parts. For this run, I figured we will not be spending any time rock crawling in the dark (rock lights), so the table was the practical choice.

 

[BKennedy]

Spent the week off roading in the Mojave. Had a great time. Explorer performed exceptionally well, except for in the whoop-de-do type roads, which go on for miles on the Mojave Road. It bottoms out in the front too easily, and the rebound is too fast, causing the front to spring up for the next bump, so it can bottom out again. When I had the shocks valved, it was suggested to me that since I drive it on the street as well as rock crawl it, that I go with a light compression, with a medium/firm rebound. Now that I have been driving it in all types of terrain, I think it needs medium compression and rebound to even it out. It does drive very smoothly on the street, but I can live with a little more compression firmness if it helps it not bottom out so easily. If that doesn't help as much as I would like, I guess I need some air bumps to lessen the impact.

Total miles were nearly 700 (highway and dirt).
We drove to the real end of the Mojave Road, Camp Cady. It took us nearly half a day to find the frigin place, and a bunch of gas. Got finished and it was getting dark and we needed to find a place to camp. Realized Calico was only 14 miles away and headed over there. Went wheelin in the morning up Odessa Canyon. I have never seen it so torn up. The ledges were 4' tall in places. Explorer drove right up and over them. Had to winch Mike's Green Machine J&*p up two out of four ledges. The last was just a precautionary measure as the ledge got very narrow and has a 20' drop on one side. Long wheel base beat out short every time!!
I will do a write up on the trip soon.

 

[Stic-o]

Funny, me and the Wife we're coming back from Vegas last weekend and we were talking about how long it's been since Calico

 

[BKennedy]

Funny, me and the Wife we're coming back from Vegas last weekend and we were talking about how long it's been since Calico

The part of Odessa canyon where you busted out your back window would be a no go for anything less than what we were driving. Needed a front locker to get over the first part (3+ foot ledge), and to keep off the window basher rock. Mike's air compressor would not run, so his ARB would not work. I Mickey Mouse'd the wiring bypassing the switch and got it to run so he could get up the ledge. I could not get the right angle on any surface that would allow him to winch himself up using the Explorer for an anchor. It was fun though, nice end of the Mojave Road run, saved the hardest stuff for last.
Only trail damage was some lost paint off the sliders and rear diff for me, and Mike lost a front sway bar bolt, then scraped the pin off with the tire where the sway bar link mounts when not in use. He needs to limit his steering a little for left turns.

 

[Rick]

I have never seen it so torn up. The ledges were 4' tall in places. Explorer drove right up and over them. Had to winch Mike's Green Machine J&*p up two out of four ledges. The last was just a precautionary measure as the ledge got very narrow and has a 20' drop on one side. Long wheel base beat out short every time!!

That's awesome

I see air bumps in your future. Mine does great in most fast stuff, but in certain whoops it's too soft like you said and it bottoms out. I've never done anything about it. I just say ouch every time it hits hard and then I slow down

 

[FR-425]

Air bumps; who would'a thought. :scratch: Oh yea, I remember, Greg said that at truck-haven and got scolded by the California highway patrol!

He let me go without a ticket though.. ... .

Good times in the 4x4 arena!

 

[sirhk100]

Valve your shocks for go fast stuff. You won't notice it at all crawling because the pistons won't be traveling fast enough. Most of the oil will be going thru your freebleed piston ports rather then thru your valving at crawling shock shaft speeds. It'll ride nice and handle nice on the street, more sports carish. If you have tons of body roll, when you have the shocks apart, close up all the freebleed ports leaving only one open on the piston. You'll gain way more in every single situation you put your exploder thru with shocks that are valved correctly then adding a set of hydrobumps will ever do for you.

(for reference, I've got 18 shocks in my driveway collection I'm responsible for tuning, maintenance, and up keep on... 6 on the race truck, 4 on my exploder, 8 on my play truck.)

BTW, I'm running 17* of caster, you should see my tires roll over when turning!

 

[BKennedy]

Valve your shocks for go fast stuff. You won't notice it at all crawling because the pistons won't be traveling fast enough. Most of the oil will be going thru your freebleed piston ports rather then thru your valving at crawling shock shaft speeds. It'll ride nice and handle nice on the street, more sports carish. If you have tons of body roll, when you have the shocks apart, close up all the freebleed ports leaving only one open on the piston. You'll gain way more in every single situation you put your exploder thru with shocks that are valved correctly then adding a set of hydrobumps will ever do for you.

(for reference, I've got 18 shocks in my driveway collection I'm responsible for tuning, maintenance, and up keep on... 6 on the race truck, 4 on my exploder, 8 on my play truck.)

BTW, I'm running 17* of caster, you should see my tires roll over when turning!

Thanks.
Bumps are way down on my list, just like changing out the wedgie bushings for less caster so it turns tighter. It drives very nice on the highway now and it might mess it up if I go with less caster. I am not sure how much 3* will have on turning radius, but I think it might have a noticeable effect on highway speed driving.
I am hoping going from light compression and firm rebound to medium / medium will make the shocks work better all around for me. I don't get much body roll, except in slow speed sharp turns, as in turning from one street to another from a stop.
I also ordered a pair of Fox spring dividers. They should help the main springs from rubbing on the bottom part of the shock body.

 

[BKennedy]

Air bumps; who would'a thought. :scratch: Oh yea, I remember, Greg said that at truck-haven and got scolded by the California highway patrol!

He let me go without a ticket though.. ... .

Good times in the 4x4 arena!

 

[BKennedy]

.............. I just say ouch every time it hits hard and then I slow down

That was about it; 20+ miles of speed up, brake, bottom out, speed up, brake, bottom out, rebound, bottom out, ouch, ouch, slow down. Some of the road is smooth, like graded road smooth. I would be cruising along at 45 or so, then see a big dip, brake to 30, wham....speed up, repeat.
I have those round bump stops that taper in steps towards the ends. Seem to work pretty good. I could see the wider rings in the dust on the bump contact points, so I guess they must compress well. Also got the height of the bump stops adjusted correctly so the pumpkin doesn't contact the cross member.

 

[FR-425]

I agree Brian, If you just up your compression rate a bit and speed up the rebound a touch it should do the trick.

Medium/medium will probably do it.

 

[sirhk100]

Thanks.
Bumps are way down on my list, just like changing out the wedgie bushings for less caster so it turns tighter. It drives very nice on the highway now and it might mess it up if I go with less caster. I am not sure how much 3* will have on turning radius, but I think it might have a noticeable effect on highway speed driving.
I am hoping going from light compression and firm rebound to medium / medium will make the shocks work better all around for me. I don't get much body roll, except in slow speed sharp turns, as in turning from one street to another from a stop.
I also ordered a pair of Fox spring dividers. They should help the main springs from rubbing on the bottom part of the shock body.

In all honesty, "most" people don't run enough compression and are running too much rebound. Changes in your shocks won't make drastic differences crawling cause the movements are so slow when it comes to how fast the shaft is going in and out of the shock. Sounds to me you'd be going in the right direction with what you want to do for sure.

Oddball scenario on shock valving. I had a truck that was bouncing off the face of a jump and bouncing on landings. My thought was I needed more rebound to keep it from bouncing up. Makes sense right? In reality I needed more compression cause i was blasting thru the compression and then slamming the truck upwards off the ground from bottoming out so hard. Had nothing to do with rebound. I increased my compression to keep the front end from rebounding so much. Who'd a thought right? I'm far from a pro so take my info with a grain of salt but typically you're going to want to go heavier on compression and lighter on rebound I bet then you think. Too slow of rebound typically makes it so that tires don't have enough time to droop out and take advantage of the compression damping between bumps. It causes the suspension to pack up further and further every hit.

Long story short, if you're currently soft on compression and slow on your rebound, going medium and medium will help for sure!

BTW, not sure if you do your own shock work but if you don't, don't be afraid to tear into it. If you can do a SAS on an exploder ripping apart a set of shocks and putting them back together will be cake work for you! If you don't have a nitrogen tank you'll just have to go get them charged but don't be intimidated by tearing them down and making changes on your own. It's insanely simple work wise to do! The secret is knowing what changes to make but as long as you keep good notes of where you were and where you're going, you can always go back. Taking the shocks off and on the vehicle is harder then actually changing the valving.