Body roll problem solved

[aaron81006]

I have been dealing with some pretty gnarly body roll and it kinda gets a little scary. I have been trying to find good and inexpensive solutions with little luck. Paying 200 bucks for a thicker one just doesn't make sense. While browsing around looking at other folks ideas, I had my own eureka moment. "I can add a second sway bar above the other one". I can the whole assembly for pretty cheap at the PnP, modify the brackets at the frame to hold a double bushing and build an H style bracket to hold the ends together. This would work similar to a 4 link. Any thoughts?

 

[colintrax]

No. Just no.
What kinda shape are the end links in? What about your shocks? Get everything fresh before you go modifying it

 

[aaron81006]

Shocks are new and the bushings are in good shape. So, what's your reasoning behind your "no"?

 

[4x4junkie]

To me it sounds like there's something else wrong with your setup (tire pressure too low? Shocks too soft?). Either that or your expectations are much too high for what is in reality a utility truck.

I run no sway bars at all on my rides without issues.

 

[colintrax]

Shocks are new and the bushings are in good shape. So, what's your reasoning behind your "no"?

What brand shocks? Are you SURE the bushings are in good shape? Front and rear? As the above poster said, what's your tire pressure?

$200 for a thicker bar is a much better idea. I don think you realize how much work/money it'd be to add a 2nd bar. As from a handling/ride perspective a thicker bar will give you better results. Not sure how you think it's similar to a 4 link?

 

[aaron81006]

Junkie: I guess by expecting my truck to not sway 3" up and down while driving down the highway, then maybe you're right. Call me crazy. I've wondered about the shocks myself but the ones on there now are brand new Rough Countries that came with the new lift and I had this sway issue before I put on the lift and new shocks. Almost all of the bushings are new but I climbed under there and by getting a closer look I did find two the could be replaced. I'll order those tonight. Also, the tire pressure was a little low so now they're tight. That should help. Sometimes I think too hard about stuff and overlook the simple things. That's why I like to get an outside perspective. Thanks for your thoughts.

Collin: I don't have an extra $200 bucks laying around. What I do have tho is access to a $M fab shop. I could build that setup for less than $50. I guess, unless you have some engineering data to compare the results of the two systems, neither of us will know the truth about that. In my mind, two sway bars would resist more torque than one just like adding another leaf spring to the back. It would be like a 4 link in that it would have parallel bars with the pivot points in the same plain so that the parts stay vertical as the axle moves up and down.

FR: I like your idea. I see how you moved the link bar on the bottom but how did you get it wider without cutting the sway bar? Do your link bars just have a jog in them? They look straight in the pic.

Thanks everyone for the input.

 

[aaron81006]

Correct. Moment, mechanical advantage and all that... I'm curious how you connected the rods at the top to gain 2" (each side, right?). From your pic, it looks like a stock connection.
Did you add spacers with the new bolts?

 

[jd4242]

Did you get a alignment after the lift?? Did you get a steering drop bracket? How much lift was the lift? You might be experience bump steer causing the truck to sway or rock..ps you can swap the rear bar out with a second gen sway bar from pnp and it helps, thicker bar..

 

[aaron81006]

Yeah, did the alignment at time of lift. The drop bracket is the one that came with the kit (for now anyway, working on building one at will do a true drop to level everything out). Crazy thing is, the sway is not from the steering. Believe it or not, I can let go of the wheel while it's rocking and continue in a straight line. No vibration or anything.
Have you (or anyone you know) done the G2 swap? Is it a direct fit? There are plenty of those at the PnP.

 

[jd4242]

Yeah, did the alignment at time of lift. The drop bracket is the one that came with the kit (for now anyway, working on building one at will do a true drop to level everything out). Crazy thing is, the sway is not from the steering. Believe it or not, I can let go of the wheel while it's rocking and continue in a straight line. No vibration or anything.
Have you (or anyone you know) done the G2 swap? Is it a direct fit? There are plenty of those at the PnP.

How much lift you have?? The fa600 should work fine for 6" of lift. .yes I run a 2nd gen sway bar in the rear, it helps.yes its a direct swap

 

[aaron81006]

It's a modified 4" Rough Country lift. The P-arm that came with it works fine but did not drop everything back down to horizontal. I want to build the new arm just so it's all flat.
Thanks for the info on the G2. I'll look for one at the PnP.

 

[Anime]

A much easier (and very inexpensive) way of improving the performance of the stock sway bars is to upgrade the bushings to polyurethane. Energy Suspension makes a complete kit for the Explorer that replaces all of the suspension bushings on the vehicle, including the sway bar, end links, etc. Replacing all of them makes the biggest difference, but just replacing the sway bar and end link bushings works great for reducing body roll. The whole kit is just a little over $100.

You can also get poly bushings for the rear bar on a 95-98 if you want to use the rear bar with poly bushings.

As previously mentioned, if you're getting a lot of body roll, you should check the shocks - worn out shocks will allow a lot of body roll, new ones that are doing their job should reduce it.

Also be sure and check out other things like the body mounts and body mount bushings. If they are falling apart, the excessive body roll may be due to the body actually leaning independently of the frame, rather than the suspension being the cause.
Replacing the old stock rubber body mount bushings with new polyurethane ones from Daystar can reduce body roll as well.

 

[cloaked_chaos]

The fa600 should work fine for 6" of lift.

Any clues on where to get one for cheap? I have an FA400 and it isn't near enough drop for my lift but I can't find an FA600 cheaper than the ~$200 price range.

 

[4x4junkie]

Any clues on where to get one for cheap? I have an FA400 and it isn't near enough drop for my lift but I can't find an FA600 cheaper than the ~$200 price range.

Low-$200 is about the going rate (still beats buying a new set of tires for $600-1000 2-3 times more often than you need to).

http://www.jamesoaksenterprises.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=57_63&products_id=106
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sja-fa600



There is a seller at this moment on Ebay at just under $200, but I doubt you'll find it much cheaper than that (unless you can find a used one).

http://www.ebay.com/sch/eBay-Motors-/6000/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=skyjacker+fa600

 

[aaron81006]

I got it figured out.
First things first tho: DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME.

I was still battling the sway and finally have it wooped. Here is the final product and it works great.

I bought a front sway bar off of a 03 Explorer from the pnp. This bar is huge compared to the wimpy bar the the 93 Expo came with. After many hours of thought and test fitting, I decided that yes this bar was going to work but it was too wide and needed some modification. The bar has the same mounting width but flares out at the end. Out omes the torch. I carefully heated and bent the ends in until they were to closer to 90 degrees from the main bar. The majority of the twist occurs in the middle area of the bar and this area never got to be too hot to touch. Barely even warm. The ends where the bending happened are pretty much just levers.

End links from a 95 Cherokee have the correct ends and come with new bushings. This is a great start but they are too short. I lengthened them 2 1/4". I also ordered new bushings for the mount for the 03 Explorer. I mounted the bar in the stock location and added the new links.
It's amazing how much this has improved the ride and handling. It's no wonder they started using these heavier bars in the later years.

BTW, this setup only cost me about 65 bucks.
Also, my tire wear is perfectly even.

I'm also still thinking about how to do something like this on the rear.

 

[Capone425]

Question. When you say body roll, are you referring to the vehicle just swaying back and forth inexplicably while driving at highway speeds? I have this problem with my 91. If I approach 60MPH what I get isn't the standard death wobble, but rather the whole vehicle sways back and forth like a small boat on the ocean. My brother had it on his second gen but we attributed it to the IFS since he rednecked it like crazy but just putting longer bolts in the torsion bars and cutting the fenders to fit 33's. But when I pulled the rear end and lift springs that were on mine out in favor of a 2nd gen with a SOA and stock springs (the lift springs were way too stiff and allowed relatively zero suspension travel) I also got the same problem. Now I don't have a sway bar in the back either. It's not a huge issue for me as mine will soon be a trailer only rig, but if I can get it figured out for the summer I would have more freedom to travel and wheel at places further from my house until I buy a car trailer for it.

 

[aaron81006]

Hey Capone. Yes, my problem was the same as yours. It was similar to me standing on the nerf bars and bouncing up and down. This would happen to me at about 55+ mph and in windy areas. This heavier sway bar fixed it and didn't make it too stiff.

 

[CDW6212R]

I like it, well thought out and uses easy to get parts. For going off road where twisting is mandatory, the big bars will be a bother to disconnect a lot. But here's the back bar you need, the EE rear bar was the largest made, now unavailable. The stock rear bar is puny, 5/8" maybe. This is close to 1 1/8" as I recall;

 

[Capone425]

Hey Capone. Yes, my problem was the same as yours. It was similar to me standing on the nerf bars and bouncing up and down. This would happen to me at about 55+ mph and in windy areas. This heavier sway bar fixed it and didn't make it too stiff.

Awesome,
I do have a bit of "death wobble" in the front end but I know how to cure that, being able to fix the ship lost at sea feeling will be huge for me. Thanks.

 

[aaron81006]

Yes CDW, this current setup is def not quick release. If you need it to be, you can add these clips, some quick pins and some straps or clips to hold the bar out of the way.
You would also have to use the links that have the round tube connection on both ends, like stock.