boostin a 5.0 need some help

ok so ive owned my explorer for 2 months and after workin out some minor stuff Im ready to start the STS turbo project. I have a few parts left over from my old cars SRT-4 and Evolution so I have a start just need some more info if anyone can help..
OK I have
- T3/t04e 50 trim .63 ar internally gated(Im not sure if i can stick with the internal or not opions please)
-SS oil feed line
-MBC
-Front mount intercooler that im tryin to test fit up
-Diverter Valve(no BOV )
-Cone filter
-Boost Gauge/wideband
I know Im gonna need charge pipes couplers etc... And from what ive read an STS oil pump for the turbo drain.
Besides Fittings,flanges and exhaust work anything else?
Im not tryin to get a list to be completly done just one to get some power into the truck(like 4-6 psi) for now.

Now to the ?'s
-@how much boost can a 5.0 motor take?(i know every motor is different but just a guestimate)
-Intercooler worth doin or at such low boost levels should i even bother?
-Can i run the truck on low boost with no tuning w/o blowing it up? I do have a wideband and will be monitoring the AFR closely
-On 6 psi with a few more supporting mods any guesstimates of track and HP/TQ #'s


Thanks to anyone that takes the time to read this i appreciate it very much

 

[Turdle]

subscribing

 

[Afboy143]

look at this

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169060&highlight=turbo+5.0

 

[jah81592]

I already have done this with a 4.0L sohc. The max boost I would run on the stock 5.0L would be around 10psi. Get yourself a good set of 42# injectors and and 255LPH Holley forced induction pump! Don't skimp on your fuel system or tuning. I feel your turbo will be a bit small but this will be optimum for quick spool/reduced lag. If you tow any amount of anything or are in stop and go traffic I would recommend a intercooler. I recommend it anyway because you can make more power due to you IAT's being lower and ability to run more timing. I would say negative on running 6# boost and not blowing it up. The 19# injectors would max at an estimated 3200rpm and you maf meter would sign off not too long after that. I will travel if interested for tuning.

What size intercooler are you going to run? Mine is large and I had to dissassemble the whole front end to install. Because I couldn't get my drill in for 1 hole.
Check out these two threads.....
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147866 -turbo installation
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153134 - intercooler installation

Upon initial installation my project was being tuned by another tuner. But I became a tuner and all the latest (quickest) timeslips have been with my tuning!

 

[98blk5.0]

look at this

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169060&highlight=turbo+5.0

thanks ive read that twice now...


I may be usin a SRT or EVO FMIC i have both sittin at my house. And I the fuel and tunnung i know you shouldnt skimp on the fuel will more then likely be installed before the kit goes on. But as far as tuning Im new to tuning with these type of tuning devices. Ive previously only tunes with an APEX SAFC II just tuning AFR's, and had great sucess I just want to read more into what kinda engine managment i want to do. This is just gonna be a baby step over the winter im gonna plan on building the motor, lots of port work and a meth kit(also have a spare one at my house) and see how fast i can get an explorer down the 1/4 mile

Any more suggestions? all the info is much appreciated
Im tryin ultimatly to get the explorer to keep up with my old cars times
SRT-4 was 12.7 @121(bad traction problems)
Evo was 12.5 @110
Any feel this is doable in a 5500lb SUV

 

[Turdle]

Speaking of intercoolers--what is the consensus on this?
I have spoken with the owner-developer. The way he describes it sounds very intriguing. Supposedly can build to below zero intake temps for a 15 second burst, or, maintain a 50 degree charge in run mode.
It is a solid state heat exchanger, requires 40a of current though.

http://www.killerchiller.com/

 

[justin146]

A 50 trim turbo is too small for the 5.0. I would look into a 60-1 with a .68 housing, and a p-trim wheel. I just swapped in a Holset HX35 just to experiment with, and it seems to work great. I know of a few 5.0 mustangs running this turbo with good results. I have to get this freakin thing tuned before I can tell you just how good it works on the Ex. I now have a shop to work in, so I can finally get mine finished. My new intercooler just came in yesterday. I am actually doing a rear mount intercooler with a fan and a scoop to help airflow.

I first tried to use a 57 trim on mine, but it turned out to be too small. It was really hard to stay out of boost on the highway.Then I swapped in a 61mm .84 P trim, and it was a little too large. I made a plate to partially block off one side of the divided turbine, and it worked great. But since this truck sees more street duty than track, I decided I wanted more bottom end- hence the Holset swap.

Dont get me wrong, the 50 trim would "work", but you'll limit the RPM potential of the engine, thus lowering the horsepower potential. I saw a buildup of a 4.9 Ford with this size turbo, and it hit a wall at about 4000RPM, put ~300WHP down, but had over 550ft/lbs at the wheels! Basically gave it the powerband of a diesel.

 

[jah81592]

As far as tuning SCT will be the best bet for you. Your tuner will have full control over the a/f,trans,shift points,spark, basically everything!

 

[98blk5.0]

ok so no 50 trim... which sucks but ok..
so i need new turbo
SCT
Fuel
and im good to go?

 

[justin146]

ok so no 50 trim... which sucks but ok..
so i need new turbo
SCT
Fuel
and im good to go?

For fuel, I got a GT supercar pump from my local dealership for like $100. It would be sweet if you put two 50 trims on it

 

[98blk5.0]

twin 50's would be great i have a buddy doin a STS twin DBB 50trim'd GTO supposed to make upper 500 low 600 at like 9 psi...

 

[chingadera]

If you plan on useing that T3/T4 you will need 2 of them. Other wise you may want to look into a T70 or the likes if you plan to go single. Also you said sts. I recently built a home built remote mount twin T3/t4 turbo set up on my mustang with a 4.6 sohc v-8 http://forums.modulardepot.com/media-center/100677-home-built-twin-turbo-non-pi.html
anyways if you are going remote you will find the hardest part is rigging up an oil return. I would recommend a return oil pump from rbracing.com I used there pump and it has been flawless (they have a pump, backflow check valve, and timer). Also I would go with a 90mm lightning MAS and 42lb injectors, with a custom sct dyno tune. Mike Murrilo of san antonio Tx. did my car and it is awsome. Also a walbro 255lph pump will work great for fuel. I would set it up for 8psi and you should be looking at around 420rwhp. The stock 5.0 bottom is good and also the stock heads on an explorer 5.0 are gt-40 clones as far as castings so the motor should be pretty strong. Good luck.

 

[Chief34]

I am installing a Kenne bell Superchager on my 5.0 very soon.... I have been told not to run more than about 5~6 Psi if I want it to last. The stock 5.0 is pretty strong but the Pistons are the weak link. They are Hypereutectic pistons wich are silicon based. ANY detonation and they will likely melt. They are a little stronger than regular cast pistons but They are still succeptable to failure if you get detonation.
If your 5.0 has been rebuilt than you might even be in worse shape because a lot of places will just rebuild them with regular cast pistons to save money. That even makes it more weak. So anyway, I know there are a lot of mustang guys who have boosted alot more on a stock short block, but from what I have researched there arent to many who have had them last very long doing it....
Good Luck,
Tim H.
P.S. definately get it dyno tuned.

 

[chingadera]

You can run 8psi on hypertectic pistons on a 302 easy and it will hold up just fine. The pistons in my 4.6 are made the same way and the rods are even weaker than 302 rods and I easily push 8psi with no problems at all. As long as you get a good tune you will have no problems running 8psi. I have even seen some guys running 12psi without issues....but that is just pushing it. The stock 302 heads have a good sized combustion chamber in the heads and its shape helps keep off detonation. Also if you intercool your charge air you will decrease the chance of detonation by a ton. Use 2 steps colder plugs and gap them down to like .035 as long as you have a good tuner you will have a very reliable set-up.

 

[CDW6212R]

Yes, keep the tuning conservative to start with, avoid detonation. The PCM's in the Explorer are very good.

BTW, can you find a couple of Eagle Talon turbos, the manual versions? Those are supposed to be good for 302's, and are set to 9psi. stock. I have one that was going on a Lincoln long ago. I've got a Kenne Bell 2200 for my 302 some day. Good luck,

 

[rocket 5979]

For fuel, I got a GT supercar pump from my local dealership for like $100. It would be sweet if you put two 50 trims on it

Justin that GT pump is not designed to be in your type of application. I would suggest not using it and getting a Walbro GSS342 255lph fuel pump. That pump is meant to see variable voltage (aka different kind of duty cycle) and will not last too long in a constant voltage application in a vehicle that is driven on a semi normal basis. The only reason I ran dual Ford GT pumps on my truck was because it is not even close to being a daily driver so I didn't need the reliability of a pump meant for a return fuel system. All Explorers up to 2005 (I don't know how the 2006+ are) use a return style fuel pump in mechanical returnless configuration that has constant voltage (non-variable). EF.com would not let me update my sig without making me take a whole bunch of stuff out so it is not close to being updated. I have been running dual Walbro GSS340's now for about a month. They will support just as much power as my dual Ford GT pumps would but they will also be more reliable because they are meant for a return app.

98blk5.0 get a get a Walbro GSS342 fuel pump and your fueling needs will be satisfied up to about 500hp. You won't be going near that on your stocker 5.0 block anyways as those usually crap out right at or a little before that power mark anyways. Get yourself some used Lightning 42 lb/hr injectors and you will be good to go for a while.

Like James (jah81592) said, go with SCT for your tuning needs. Both James and I are SCT custom tuners and can vouch for the quality of the product as we both use SCT products in all of our personal vehicles as well.

 

[justin146]

Justin that GT pump is not designed to be in your type of application. I would suggest not using it and getting a Walbro GSS342 255lph fuel pump. That pump is meant to see variable voltage (aka different kind of duty cycle) and will not last too long in a constant voltage application in a vehicle that is driven on a semi normal basis. The only reason I ran dual Ford GT pumps on my truck was because it is not even close to being a daily driver so I didn't need the reliability of a pump meant for a return fuel system. All Explorers up to 2005 (I don't know how the 2006+ are) use a return style fuel pump in mechanical returnless configuration that has constant voltage (non-variable).

The '98 Mustang disagrees with your statement- it uses the same pump as the '99 Mustang(returnless), but in a return configuration. It is my understanding that returnless pumps are ok for return systems, but not the other way around. VMP Tuning recommends the Aviator(returnless) pump for return systems, so I dont see a problem using the GT pump.

 

[CDW6212R]

Rob just stated that the 99+ pumps are almost all constant voltage pumps.

"...All Explorers up to 2005 (I don't know how the 2006+ are) use a return style fuel pump in mechanical returnless configuration that has constant voltage (non-variable)..."

The Ford GT pump is not the same, as in different from the 98 or 99 Mustang pump, etc. I didn't know those details, and I thank you for that Rob. Regards,

 

[rocket 5979]

The '98 Mustang disagrees with your statement- it uses the same pump as the '99 Mustang(returnless), but in a return configuration. It is my understanding that returnless pumps are ok for return systems, but not the other way around. VMP Tuning recommends the Aviator(returnless) pump for return systems, so I dont see a problem using the GT pump.

Returnless pumps can work in a return configuration allot better than vice versa. Just because something will work in another configuration does not mean it is the best thing to do. Justin @ VMP is wrong in his advice. A return pump is best used in a return system and a returnless pump is best used in a returnless system. Any kind of crossing over will sacrifice long term reliability which is fine in a track only vehicle such as my Explorer which was why I used the GT pumps for a while. However, I can count on only 2 fingers the people who have track only Explorers and thus do not need to worry about long term fuel pump reliability.

I suggest that you refrain from giving advice based upon second hand recommendations. I have tested the GT pumps, tested the stocker systems, and also tested the Walbro GSS342 and also GSS340 models. I have also built entire fuel systems from scratch. The bottom line is that I might just know what I am talking about and I actually care when someone gets inaccurate advice in here or anywhere else.

If 98blk5.0 needs more fuel he should just buy a Walbro GSS342 255 lph fuel pump and be done with it. Here are the reasons why:

1) True return pump.
2) Much cheaper than the Avi pump and just a touch more expensive than the GT pump.
3) Pretty sure it is drop in and be done with regards to wiring. The wiring harness will have to be modified if fitting the GT pump in.
4) Able to use stock intank fuel line instead of buying the SAE30R10 fuel line which isn't cheap.
5) The higher pressure nipple on the top of the GT pump is beveled and gets smaller towards the end. Unless you crank things down REAL tight the fuel line has a good chance to work itself off (or loose) and cause pressure loss or total system failure. The SAE30R10 line will help this allot as it did for my setup but it still takes a chance with that beveled nipple.
6) Peace of mind that he is using the right pump for the right fuel system and thus having the full life of the pump.
7) At 255lph the Walbro will be able to support more horsepower than most anyone will usually make with a FI 5.0 Explorer.

 

[jah81592]

The '98 Mustang disagrees with your statement- it uses the same pump as the '99 Mustang(returnless), but in a return configuration. It is my understanding that returnless pumps are ok for return systems, but not the other way around. VMP Tuning recommends the Aviator(returnless) pump for return systems, so I dont see a problem using the GT pump.

Sir,This is a incorrect statement. I have covered this several times on these forums. You will get slower starting with a returnless pump because of the lack of a check integrated into the pump. The 1998 and 1999 Mustangs do not carry the same pump. I really feel that this supercar pump has been an excellent thing to be available for the returnless guys but the line has been smeared and people think these will live in the return style environment. The life is shortened with these pumps in a returns style setup.

Do not use a Supercar pump in a return style setup!!!! When you are spending as much as you will be on turbo,injectors,MAF,etc what is another $50 on the pump. This is essentially the heart of the fuel system. Go with a Holley 255lph. E-mail if you need to know the part# for the fuel pump. I have personally used this pump for alot of miles. I also use them for my customers because of the reliability!