Bridging the divide between prerunning and general trails

[CodePoet]

Hey all, I FINALLY finished school (Indiana University), won't be too long before I have that all important job and alittle money in my pocket. The explorer is not the most important thing in my life of course but it won't be too long before I am actually able to put some money in. So i'm just thinking about all the possibilities I have, I feel the planning stages of any big project will save not only time and frustration but also money. I was originally going to do an sas, which alot of people do here and it's very cool...but the idea of maxamizing the capabilities of a ttb has been crossing my mind again. With that thought the idea of a prerunner begins to follow. The only problem with that is in Indiana about the only places to run a truck like that is in the corn fields (farmers might have a problem with that lol). I was wondering what the possiblities of bridging the two worlds of prerunners and more general trail 4x4's. I am considering the idea of cut and turned beams, I'm sure I can build the jigs to do it correctly. THe next is extending the ra's 10-12 inches with heims and builing a new x-fer case cross member with tabs build in (just like dannyboy did with his sas). I feel this would greatly improve flex. I really hope 410 chimes in since he knows alot about cutting and turning beams, Is there a max amount of lift you can bend in? The writeup on trs has it for 4" but if 5" or 6" lift would be possible bonus, i'd also like to keep my f-150 spacers for 6"-8" total lift. With this kinda set up I would think 20+ inches of useable travel could be had in front. In the rear...well that'll be worked out later lol, might have to look in on perry's expo with the 4-link rear...but will probably do an soa and fab up some anti-rap bars. I was also thinking that I could use a set of perry's glass 01 converstions which would give me more room in the front and rear for tires and flex. I would think this setup would make a good trail vehicle as well as a prerunner especially by lifting it more than might be needed for a prerunner...i don't know, just mulling things over (keeps my mind busy )

What do ya'll think?
cp

 

[Rick]

First off congrats on getting out of school

Paul Bredehoft has already went that route with a complete pre-runner front suspension and steering setup. His truck is very low slung yet does well in the rocks as well since it's locked front and rear and has a ton of travel.

Here are some photos:

http://www.explorerforum.com/tds_02/

 

[Josh S.]

its gonna be quite difficult to get 20+" of front travel while keepin the 4x4. youll definitely wanna go wider, which entails getting new axleshafts made=$$. anyways, as rick said Paul's is a great example of what a 4x4 ttb can become, as well as camburg's 4x4 X...somewhere on camburg.com

 

[CodePoet]

Thanks for the comments I was wondering about swapping in a d44 ttb as described here. This would not only widen the the front but also give me a much stronger axle in general. I'm going to have to get ahold of Paul Bredehoft, that thing is awsome. I'll have to do some reasearch if cutting and turning the d44 is the same basic procedure as the d35, would that be a route to explore? Thanks for the comments!

Later
cp

 

[Robb]

Why are you trying to bridge the gap? Like you said, you don't have any prerunning ground to run on.

 

[CodePoet]

Haha your right...maybe I should have titled it using the ttb to it's full potential . I don't know what i'll do honestly...just exploring my options

later
cp

 

[Rick]

The D-44 setup like Paul's would be about as good as TTB can get IMO. The D-44 solves a couple problems. It gets rid of the weak aluminum cased D-35 and solves the wheel bearing problem.

Paul has had problems with his long side axle shaft. For some reason he hasn't been able to successfully run a front locker with the long travel TTB. His fab guy has been working out a solution.

 

[Josh S.]

Haha your right...maybe I should have titled it using the ttb to it's full potential . I don't know what i'll do honestly...just exploring my options

later
cp

Its OK CP, Robb just doesn't like prerunners GO TTB!! The D44 TTB is a mighty big process to swap into our X's from what I've researched. There's some good info on dezertrangers.com...If I'm not feeling too lazy in about 5 minutes I'll go find it.

 

[Josh S.]

ok, here's a nice long thread about modifying ttb and making it kickass. Unless you plan on REALLY beating on your rig, I wouldn't mess with the d44 ttb install...unless you wanna be different or have the xtra insurance. Me, I'm just too lazy to get into it any more, and for what I do so far I don't need d44 ttb. D35 can handle a lot of abuse(prerunning-wise), but especially if ya wanna run some fatty meats on there, like Rick mentioned, it'll fry yer wheel bearings. I'm not planning on running much bigger than 35's ever, so I should be cool.

http://www.dezertrangers.com/cgi-bin/ib/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=2;t=7015;hl=d44

 

[Robb]

Its OK CP, Robb just doesn't like prerunners

Hey Now!!! :mattmoon:

I believe in creating a rig that is right for the individual. Hell, if I had an area to prerun within 150 miles, I would have a nice 2wd IFS LT setup under my rig right now. If I had any real crawling nearby, I would have D60s sittin in the backyard, instead of the little axles I have now.

As it stands, I have, as I believe CP has, general trail riding. And I believe he should look into creating the best rig possible for those conditions. From my research, I think a D44 TTB or SFA is close to the same amount of work/fab. IMHO, I would rather have the SFA, but that is just me.

 

[IAmTodd]

I would have a nice 2wd IFS LT setup under my rig right now. If I had any real crawling nearby, I would have D60s sittin in the backyard, instead of the little axles I have now.

You don't use your's as is, you have no room to speak!

 

[CodePoet]

Great info guys I really appreciate it...it's gonna take awhile to awhile to get in all read and digested but i've got the time . I just want to look at the two options I like the best (sfa, turned beams) then make my decision...whatever I do I know it I will be spending alot of time fabricating but I really want to learn .

later
cp

 

[Josh S.]

haha, just givin ya a hard time robb I guess I'm lucky to have different kinds of wheelin around me, so I'm tryin to build an all-purpose rig...one that I can keep up a moderate pace in the desert, while being able to cruise it up some cool trails

 

[CodePoet]

an all purpose rig is what i'm going after too, this truck will still be drivin on the street, many many fun dirt roads, coal mines (lots of fun in those ). And more traditional 4x4 trails (no mudding though). I would think with the d44 I could very reliably run 35" tires, thinking a good AT like what pro-comp has. Anyway thanks for all the help, if I go this route...i'll be asking alot more questions

If I do go with the d44ttb swap how much will it need to be shortened or lenghtened? The trs writeup is swapping in the d44 into a ranger so I would think the widths would be similar to my explorer. If they shortend their d44 3 inches (not counting the different mounting postions) I would need to shorten mine 1 inch while cutting and turning it do I would have an axle 6"s longer than the d35ttb? Am I correct on this? Anyway thanks for all the help guys!


Later
CP

 

[Josh S.]

I'll leave this one to 410

 

[CodePoet]

Ok a more general question...the reason we would need to lengthen the axle is to give it the correct width in relation to the axle. I think this is correct cause if you picture a circle with a radius (the radius is 1/2 the axle and the center point is the pivot point) and you rotate it down...say15 degrees (that number is pure conjecture) the point at which the radius has moved to is not only down but in, towards the center (the y coordinate on our x,y plane has moved closer to the point x=0 y=?, where originally it was x=?? y=0)....i can barely undertand what I just wrote lol. Basically you lengthen it to keep it the same width right? If this is the case then I would need to lengthen it more the more lift I built into the beams, so my last post wasn't correct since it would all depend on the amount of lift.

After looking at those trucks man it's hard not to want to go this route, they are freaking sweet! I'm really impressed by what i've seen so far. If I do go this route I'll also probably want to build in some axle trusses into the d44 just to give it alittle extra strenght, since I'm not going to take it to someone to do (i want to learn and make all the mistakes...only then will I become a ttb jedi) that should post too much of a problem. How strong is the 8.8? I've read posts that say it's comparable to the 9" with the exception of the pinion carrier (?). Just curious. Thanks for all the help guys, just want to learn as much as possible before I start down the road

A confused
CP

 

[Josh S.]

the 8.8 can take a beating, if set up right. 9" is stronger, has a removable third member, and doesn't have the c-clip design like the 8.8 does. Meaning, if yer axleshaft breaks in half, the thing won't slide out. 8.8's can get beefed up purty good with trussing and stuff, but make up your mind whether you want an 8.8 or 9" b4 throwing cash into your 8.8 like I did.

 

[CodePoet]

Yeah I figure if I do keep the 8.8 i'll truss it up nice with some 1/2 inch plate steel ran the lenth of the axle. I might do an soa (i'm going to look into deaver leaves so that might not happen). I thought that there was a full floater kit for the 8.8 so I could get rid of the c-clips, also when I regear it, which i'll do no matter what direction I ultmatily choose, add good locker to the rear. I'm going to try and get some more info about the truck rick refered me to to see if they were able to lock the front end...might be different with a d44 though (dont' know at this point). BTW, your link has been very helpful...so much information it's hard to know where to start haha.

Thanks again!
CP

 

[Josh S.]

Yah lol, that thread got a bit wordy for me, so I just started skimming after a while. Lotta good info tho, glad it worked out.

 

[CodePoet]

Yeah thanks...i've been thinking and I might try to make the d35 work, but if I do i'm going to put d45 outers on it so it can handel 35" tires easier, and deffinilty truss it like Paul Bredehofts truck (in ricks link). I guess wether to use the d35 or the d45 will be based on the amount of shortening/lenghtening i'll have to do and cost, but I would think if I look around the boards I could find a d45ttb pretty darn cheap (see d35's here for free sometimes lol). I went to offroadwarehouse to look at a few things I'll be needing for yhe lift, i'll probably go with camburg springs, deaver leaves, bilstine 5150 12-14" stroke shocks. I if I use the d35 i'll keep my f-150 spacers so I'll have about 7-7.5" total lift. Since i'll be doing all the fabrication myself (might take all the parts to a pro to run the weld beads, but i can easily build them and tac them togther). I think that would make a very nice rig capable of many different types of terrain, and a few jumps wouldn't be out of the question .

later
cp