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Camshaft synch squeak


MDmounty

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so I did the troubleshooting to determine that I have a bad camshaft Synch. So I get one and when I took the old one out, there was metal fused to the bottom of the gear on the Synch. So I take a look down the hole and where the Synch rests and of course that spot has some pretty good trenches in it. I went ahead and put a new one in and the squeak did not change at all.
Will the trenches that were dug inside the engine the cause of the squeaking or will it be something else?


IMG_0770.jpg

Inside the engine, the inner most ring is raised, the spot that looks like a washer is the trench, and the spot behind that is raised again about the same level as the inner most ring. The crescent moon shape around the bottom is an angled cut on whatever is inside right there. Everything is solid

IMG_0771.jpg

Brand new sync is on the left, you can see where the outer paint/finish material is rubbed off but that's it. I haven't let the engine run too long with the new one in.
The old one that I ground the chunks off of is on the right and you can see where I took 2 patches of metal off on that one up front there.

UPDATE: I've put my new sync in and the problem is still there.
The squeaking mainly occurs from 1000 to 1500 rpm while I'm driving. After 1500 rpm the squeak dies down to more of a quieter clicking sound. If I hit a bump in the road while it's squeaking, the tone of the squeak will change to a deeper sound for a second or two.
 
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shucker1

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Did you take a picture?

Sync should be gear driven off of the front of the camshaft. The lower side locks into the oil pump drive shaft with a hex fit.

Sync has bronze bushings inside of the body supporting the shaft.

I think what you might be seeing are tool marks where the block was machined?

What did the metal look like? Flakes, Fine powdery? Color of material?

If you have metal on the gear you might be losing a camshaft thrust bearing.

That's a plate that attaches to the block after the cam is installed and fits behind the camshaft sprocket.
 




MDmounty

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It looked like flakes but were fused into clumps on my Synch I'll take a picture of the inside of the hole to show you guys
 




Turdle

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I'm waiting to see this also. There should not be anything there for the gear to interfere with,

Can we see the new drive gear also? I know it will be a hassle to pull out but I sure would like to see the bottom of it. That thing only goes in so far, some foreign object must have got in there somehow.
 




MDmounty

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Put some pictures in the original post so you guys can see what I'm talking about
 




Turdle

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I could be wrong, but I don't think that half moon thing is supposed to be down there, and, it looks like your old sensor looks pretty new.The gear has very little wear, the teeth are very straight across.
 




Turdle

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look at the gear to the right.
It almost looks like a previous one was sheared enough to leave that silver ring in the hole.
 




MDmounty

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yeah the one I took out has only been in there for about 5 months, I didn't notice anything like that when I took the original one out, I have some pictures I took on my phone when I took the original out I'll look at them again
 




Turdle

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Do you have a magnet you can stick down there to either get it out or at least, see if it is a loose piece?
 




MDmounty

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yeah I stuck my magnet in there and everything is solid. That crescent moon part is inside the engine it's a hollowed out area that slants down, I got it at a weird angle I guess.
 




shucker1

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SNAP!

Pictures are not working!
 




lobo411

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No pix, but are you 100% sure the squeak was from the synchronizer? I just went through this with my 4.0 OHV, and it turned out to be a belt/pulley issue. I'm not 100% sure which: to address the squeak, I re-installed my old balancer, and I noticed that the belt I was using was too long so I replaced it with a Goodyear Gatorback 86.25" belt.

Ironically, the belt that Amazon said fit my Explorer was an inch too long, and the belt they said wouldn't fit (but Rockauto said would) was perfect.
 




MDmounty

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Yeah I took the belt out completely and ran the engine and it still squeaked the same. Just to make sure I gave each pulley a good spin to make sure it wasn't one of them. I even did the high tech water test and sprayed water on the pulleys while the engine was running and no change in sound
 




shucker1

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MDmounty,

Was the replacement sensor OEM of after market?

I have heard for users on the forum having trouble with aftermarket sensors.

Driven gear on sensor is set too deep on the shaft causing the the driven gear to run in the "bottom" of the hole and rub.

I can see one picture you posted. If I see it correctly that cut out area is where the "Sync Gear" locks with the camshaft gear.

The "Inner Ring" you describe is actually the oil pump drive extension shaft.
 




shucker1

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OK, second picture came in.

Sync on right is really running low, in my opinion. Face of gear is getting "Cut" as it spins against the boss in the block.

Sync on the left begins to show the same thing.

Just a reminder. The bolt for the hold down clamp does not have to be killer tight, but tight enough to keep the sync from rotating.
 




MDmounty

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So I should put the new one in but not wrench down so hard on it? Does anyone know a specific torque I should use?
 




shucker1

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MDmounty,

Took some pictures of a good sync out of mine after 30 K miles before my #1 piston blew out.

I measure 4.045 from mounting shoulder of body to lower face of gear with shaft compressed.

"Not Completely exact."

I can set up my depth mic if you want an exact number.

Lower face of gear of same sync.

IMG_4249.JPG


IMG_4251.JPG
 




shucker1

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I would say 15-20 Ft Lbs should be good.

I look in my service manual to see if it has an exact number.
 




MDmounty

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So I put my new sync in and tightened the clamp down until I felt a sharp rise in torque since I don't have a torque wrench and nothing has changed at all. Everything runs fine, just that squeak that never goes away
 


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shucker1

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I still think that gear is too far down the shaft.

Your squeak is coming from the bottom end of the gear cutting itself on the boss inside the block.

No way to move the gear up since it is held in by a roll pin and cross drilled into the shaft.

There is a member here named Dono that might have a idea on how to fix it.
 




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