Camshaft synchronizer stuck in engine 4.0 ohv

[EB4X]

Anybody else have this happen...it was a beach suv and therefore there is some minor surface rust on block where schync drops in...but wouldn't think that would be huge factor... other than sitting in engine for 25 years! !
Soaked it over night with every kind of quality lubricant -- made make-shift slide hammer contraption and looped around top... several powerful jerks but doesn't budge... cranked engine over back to TDC second time and still no go..
Anyone else deal with this?
Thinking of taking propane torch around it but don't have lower intake off (don't want to hassle with that and valve cover gaskets / junk etc) so would be a little tight with that but still doable....
P.S. I did not have any noise from synch whatsoever.....just engine code and poor performance symptoms...
??

 

[fast_dave]

@EB4X

Just saying since there is no mention of it in your posting.

Before trying to pull/jerk upwards on the camshaft synch, did you remove the "hold down fork" and corresponding "hold down bolt" that secures the camshaft synch assembly to the engine block?

This part is easily missed, since it's so far back towards the firewall, and under the overhang of the intake manifold.
It's usually covered in oil and grime - taken all together visibility is a nightmare, especially if you haven't removed the hood (just 4 bolts) for this repair.

Tip:
First: I highly suggest removing the hood for this because it makes this repair MUCH easier (hood is Aluminium and weighs maybe 25 lbs).

Second: Consider this, if you choose not to remove the hood, and you drop the "hold down bolt" or "hold down fork" you've now entered a whole 'nuther world of hurt. There are LOTS of places for those parts to hide within the Ex., and your FORD dealer won't have them on the shelf.

Third: The hold down bolt will not fall on the floor - and it's metric threaded

Borrowed Pic Below from The Ranger Station.

Link: Ford Ranger 4.0L Camshaft Sensor (CMP)

 

[EB4X]

@EB4X

Just saying since there is no mention of it in your posting.

Before trying to pull/jerk upwards on the camshaft synch, did you remove the "hold down fork" and corresponding "hold down bolt" that secures the camshaft synch assembly to the engine block?

This part is easily missed, since it's so far back towards the firewall, and under the overhang of the intake manifold.
It's usually covered in oil and grime - taken all together visibility is a nightmare, especially if you haven't removed the hood (just 4 bolts) for this repair.

Tip:
First: I highly suggest removing the hood for this because it makes this repair MUCH easier (hood is Aluminium and weighs maybe 25 lbs).

Second: Consider this, if you choose not to remove the hood, and you drop the "hold down bolt" or "hold down fork" you've now entered a whole 'nuther world of hurt. There are LOTS of places for those parts to hide within the Ex., and your FORD dealer won't have them on the shelf.

Third: The hold down bolt will not fall on the floor - and it's metric threaded

Borrowed Pic Below from The Ranger Station.

Link: Ford Ranger 4.0L Camshaft Sensor (CMP)

View attachment 316911

YEP... WAS AWARE AND GOT THAT OFF IN BEGINNING.... ON SIDE NOTE (GLAD YOU POSTED PIC)...MY REPLACEMENT ONE IS LIKE YOUR PIC... HAS MARKING/LINE ON WINDOW NEAR MIDDLE AREA...FOR REFERENCE REASONS LIKE "GAS GAUGE"... ON REPAIR MANUAL AND PRETTY MUCH ALL PICS ONLINE THE "MARK" IS AT "1/4 TANK" POINT .....NOT NEAR "1/2 TANK" POINT LIKE YOUR PIC AND MY NEW REPLACEMENT...NOT A BIG DEAL JUST ODD...I'M PLANNING ON MAKING MY OWN "1/4" TANK MARK ON NEW ONE...ANY INPUT ON THIS?...ANYTHING SHOULD BE CONCERNED.....SELLER WAS STUMPED WHY IT WAS MARKED THERE AS WELL....

 

[fast_dave]

@EB4X

I posted that pic because I knew you had a 1995 OHV Explorer- and they have the "old style" Cam Synch with the window

As far as the difference on where the mark is from the repair manual to the actual synchro, I can't tell you (1/4 vs 1/2)

BUT you should be concerned with regards to getting the new one in, matching how the old one came out - that's the bottom line here.

With regards to it being stuck in the block, and knowing the history of it being a "beach" suv, my guess is that it has corrosion from salt water right at the sealing/mounting surface of the top body where the O-Ring is, or at the next circular mounting surface which is under the first section, or a combination of the two.

PB Blaster (Penetrating Oil) and some heat shouldn't hurt, as well as a lil' left to right turning of the body as well.

Hopefully that's where the issue is, because the next possibility is down where it connects to the oil pump via a shaft (second picture).

Just for educational info, I added a link for an article on how to set this style synch up when the engine is out (I know your engine isn't out):

1995 Explorer 4.0L OHV: "Engine Out" Timing Synchronizer/ CMP Sensor backprobe test

ENGINE-OUT (removed from vehicle) PROCEDURES & STEPS FOR SYNCHRONIZER TIMING & CMP SENSOR BACK PROBE TEST ON 1995 4.0L OHV: These are the steps (with improvised procedures) to precisely and correctly align your camshaft position sensor mounted on the synchronizer (with the sight glass) when the...

www.explorerforum.com

Let us know how it all turns out!

 

[410Fortune]

I have had this happen a few times with the OHV engine
MOSTLY with aftermarket synchronizers

The aftermarket synchros are not machined well enough, they can get hung up inside the aluminum guide that sticks out from your engine block that holds the top of the oil pump driveshaft in place. The cam synchro will get jammed down inside the ear and will not release

It does not get stuck at the O ring or at the sensor housing to block, it gets stuck down by the rotating part, where the oil pump drivesahft goes in

The 1995 sensor with the glass "window" has been discussed here several times as far as how to go about replacing it and timing your engine properly> You can use the later model cam synchro to replace it

In order to get your stuck sensor out, you will need to make/weld a tool
Basically we use a small slide hammer.
Made a simple bracket to attach to slide hammer, a piece of steel just wide enough to drill two holes in so you can thread the two screws through the bracket and down into your stuck synchro, weld a nut onto it that threads onto your slide hammer
The slide hammer will then remove the stuck synchro

We also had to remove the transmission mounting studs (two 18-19mm nuts) and jack up the back of the transmission/t case until it touches the floor. This will gain you room to work at the back of the engine

I fought with several of these aftermarket synchros for days and days last year....huge huge PITA and a huge waste of time and money
Eventually I found the correct MOTORCRAFT synchro online and installed it, no more hanging up. We even machined a aftermarket synchro on a belt sander...still no go

HUGE PITA< HUGE HUGE HUGE I was NOT HAPPY and I work on these all the time.... it took 3 of us a bunch of time to get this sorted out, like a week and it costs a ton of $$$$ going through POS aftermarket synchros..........

 

[Turdle]

Silly as this may sound-
Try tapping downward on the housing then on the shaft. While rotating the shaft back and forth tap on the top lightly. This may loosen the bond inside. then once you do get some movement, try pulling out again, you might have to go back and forth with this but it may pop free. Be very careful not to pull it out quickly because you need to grab that oil pump drive shaft before it plops down into the oil pan.

 

[410Fortune]

Good advice!

the oil pump driveshaft has a small retainer on it that will not allow it to come up and through the mount "finger"

HOPEFULLY

when these things get stuck, they get STUCK
no tapping, prying, wiggle, nada .................which is why the slide hammer.

 

[fast_dave]

Be very careful not to pull it out quickly because you need to grab that oil pump drive shaft before it plops down into the oil pan.

Great call Turdle!

In all my concern over loosing the retaining fork and bolt, I forgot about that little nightmare scenario!!!!

 

[EB4X]

the oil pump driveshaft has a small retainer on it that will not allow it to come up and through the mount "finger"
HOPEFULLY

First of all ...you all rock...thanks for input.
410, on your statement about oil p driveshaft- you are saying it will/should STAY DOWN onto the oil pump MOST likely...correct?
And thanks for your assuring me I'm not in the Twilight Zone and/or loosing my mind... and that this does sometimes indeed happen to others and why it's sticking so bad in particular. It's funny that after trying various approaches I went with a make-shift slide hammer and you are recommending this as well, but with better connection to synch unit. What I had was that thin steel braided cable looped like a noose cupped below the top of unit around narrower section.
Half serious here, I don't assume you still have one of your custom brackets for this? I can paypal you shipping.
Turdle, I did try tapping down and on sides before as well...
It's sitting in parking lot of a body shop (acquaintance ..long story) several miles away ...(so that my neighbors get a break from seeing neighborhood "auto repair shop" on their street -work on all vehicles here) so I don't know how soon I'll get to around to this slide hammer 2.0 approach.
Thanks again to all... and yes, I am the king of the run-on sentences! . I'll make sure to post back final outcome...whether on road again or now need a new windshield from flying ratchet.

 

[fast_dave]

What I had was that thin steel braided cable looped like a noose cupped below the top of unit around narrower section.

Good idea with the steel cable - obviously too much "stretch" - you need direct impact force.

Try and wrap your mind around this - what about trying to place, over the top of the synch, a multi-fingered gear puller - and then "fastening" it to the body of the synch with a hose clamp that that will pull all the fingers inwards towards the synch,. Attach/thread/weld a slide hammer to the gear puller and slam away upwards...

 

[Runnin'OnEmpty]

Vise Grip makes a slide hammer puller that might help in this situation.
Can't seem to post a pic, but a search will turn it up.

 

[EB4X]

Good idea with the steel cable - obviously too much "stretch" - you need direct impact force.

Try and wrap your mind around this - what about trying to place, over the top of the synch, a multi-fingered gear puller - and then "fastening" it to the body of the synch with a hose clamp that that will pull all the fingers inwards towards the synch,. Attach/thread/weld a slide hammer to the gear puller and slam away upwards...

View attachment 316955

I like this... it's just that I'm really trying to accomplish this job without having to remove the lower intake / valve covers and all the joy that comes with that...and therefore with those still on it's too cramped / tight in there for any sizable pulley.... and then I still got the firewall 'right there' too so even with those off could still be difficult...

 

[EB4X]

Vise Grip makes a slide hammer puller that might help in this situation.
Can't seem to post a pic, but a search will turn it up.

Vise Grip makes a slide hammer puller that might help in this situation.
Can't seem to post a pic, but a search will turn it up.

Ah - ha ... Security Check

 

[fast_dave]

@EB4X

Was/Is the synch stuck so bad that you are not able to rotate the body L/R or?

Thinking out loud - I wonder if there is a grade of chain that is small enough to wrap around the small clearances that you're dealing with, yet strong enough to deal with the upwards forces of a slide hammer?

The main thought being chain doesn't flex/stretch like braided steel rope.

 

[EB4X]

@EB4X

Was/Is the synch stuck so bad that you are not able to rotate the body L/R or?

YES...for the most part.... I have to tap it with some effort to get it to rotate in either direction... which therefore I would deduce is sticking to sides a lot...probably got a combination of both scenarios... gummed up side contact points and oil p shaft sticking.... ?

 

[fast_dave]

@EB4X

Were you able to pull the body up even a little or is it flush with the block?

If it's up even a little, it wouldn't hurt to start liberally applying some aerosol PB Blaster (or equivalent), along with some L/R rotation to hopefully start breaking down the corrosion/bond between the aluminum body and the iron block.

 

[EB4X]

@EB4X

Were you able to pull the body up even a little or is it flush with the block?

If it's up even a little, it wouldn't hurt to start liberally applying some aerosol PB Blaster (or equivalent), along with some L/R rotation to hopefully start breaking down the corrosion/bond between the aluminum body and the iron block.

Doesn't / wouldn't even come up a hair...

 

[410Fortune]

there is no room for a 3 jaw puller back there
You do not need to remove the lower intake or fuel rail
removing the upper plenum and jack up the back of the trans will give you room to work

The tool we made we do still have, but Brett has it at his house in Colorado.
You see I was on a road trip visiting family and friends in CO agreed to help a friend fix his cam sensor while I was in town. 3 days later we were still working on it in Brett's driveway

The tool Brett made is a 2.5" long piece of steel with two holes in it so you can put it on top of the synchro and screw the two machine screws into the synchro body. Then he welded a nut in the middle of the steel that accepts the threads from the slide hammer... 1 good bang and the cam synchro is out. This was the THIRD TIME I have fought with a stuck synchro in a OHV in less then two years.
the cable trick might work, just know that no amount of prying or pulling would help us, only the shock and the force of the slide hammer did the trick

 

[Mbrooks420]

Use the steel cable, and hit it upwards with a blunted air chisel.

 

[Pete Deering]

Anybody else have this happen...it was a beach suv and therefore there is some minor surface rust on block where schync drops in...but wouldn't think that would be huge factor... other than sitting in engine for 25 years! !
Soaked it over night with every kind of quality lubricant -- made make-shift slide hammer contraption and looped around top... several powerful jerks but doesn't budge... cranked engine over back to TDC second time and still no go..
Anyone else deal with this?
Thinking of taking propane torch around it but don't have lower intake off (don't want to hassle with that and valve cover gaskets / junk etc) so would be a little tight with that but still doable....
P.S. I did not have any noise from synch whatsoever.....just engine code and poor performance symptoms...
??

Yes, I hit the bottom side of the synch to get to turn, used a 1/2 extension from the passenger side wheel well to get it moved. then by hand Moved it back and fore. I did a write on it