Can't fill fuel tank plus codes: P0401 and P115E

[jam1ej20]

Can't fill fuel tank plus codes: P0401 and P115E -- FUEL FILLING ISSUE FIXED

Hoping someone can help narrow down my problem.

2007 Explorer XLT. 4.0 V6

This started as a fuel filling problem. The gas pumps kicks off every few seconds. Initially, I thought evap canister or solenoid.

Then a few days later I get the CEL with the following codes: P0401 and P115E. I know these are EGR and Throttle Body codes. I'm trying to figure out if there is any connection to the fuel filling issue.

What I have checked:
1. I pulled the evap solenoid at the fuel tank and it is getting power. I'm not sure how it's supposed to work but I can blow through the solenoid valve when it is energized and also when it's not. This doesn't seem right to me BUT it also doesn't explain the fuel filling issue to me. If I can blow though it, it seems that the air could escape and it wouldn't be kicking out the fuel pump.

2. I pulled the line at the valve under the hood and blew air back. I can feel air coming out of the vent near the filler neck. However, it's clearly pressurizing the system as when I remove air pressure, I get a surge of air back my way. So while air is getting through, it is also backing up pressure so there is some resistance.

Again, I'm not sure how these things should be or if they are normal. Just documenting what I have tried and what I have seen.

Thanks for any advice or ideas.

 

[banditxp]

Pretty sure there was/is a TSB for this.
i think this was it. TSB #CSP-13N01

 

[jam1ej20]

I can't find a full copy of that TSB but it looks like it pertains to some sort of capless fuel tank. My filler neck has a screw on cap instead of a capless fuel fill pipe flap. Can anyone link to a full copy of the TSB?

Thanks

 

[Flag Gibby]

Yes, you are right that TSB is only for the capless system that Ford used in the later years of this generation. The vent solenoid should go between open and closed when you apply and remove power from it, it should not be open all the time. Sounds like I would start by replacing that part since the P0410 indicates insufficient EGR flow in closed loop mode.

 

[jam1ej20]

Yes, you are right that TSB is only for the capless system that Ford used in the later years of this generation. The vent solenoid should go between open and closed when you apply and remove power from it, it should not be open all the time. Sounds like I would start by replacing that part since the P0410 indicates insufficient EGR flow in closed loop mode.

I agree that the solenoid doesn't seem to be functioning correctly and I can see how that would lead to the EGR code.

What I'm having trouble understanding is how that could effect the fuel filling. I'm thinking I may have more than one issue here. Maybe the canister on top of the fuel tank has water in it too...or is clogged in some way?

 

[Flag Gibby]

Since you were able to test the solenoid then you should be able to pull the canister easily enough and see if there is any water in it or you can also go this route which is a typical way that service bulletins tell you how to test it:

Difficulty filling the gas tank. The pump keeps clicking off. Tests/Procedures: 1. Disconnect the vapor line at the charcoal canister that comes from the liquid vapor separator and goes to the charcoal canister. See if the fuel tank can be easily filled then. 2. If the fuel tank can easily be filled with the vapor line removed from the charcoal canister, reconnect the vapor line and remove the other lines from the charcoal canister and see if the fuel tank can be easily filled. 3. If the fuel tank is once again difficult to fill, replace the charcoal canister. 4. If disconnecting the vapor line at the charcoal canister does NOT make the fuel tank easy to fill, then disconnect the vapor line from the liquid vapor separator at the fuel tank in case the vapor line is plugged/restricted

With this generation explorer odds are that you have water in the evap canister since that is the most common thing that causes the filling issue.

 

[jam1ej20]

Thanks, that is what all my research is telling me too. Does anyone know if the tank has to be lowered to remove the canister. It looks like it does to me...just trying to hear it from anyone who has done it or knows for sure. Looks like I'll be wanting to replace the vent hose with the new "shepherd hook" design as well.

Thanks

 

[Flag Gibby]

It's tight, but you should be able to get at the retaining clips and pull things without dropping the tank. Several others that have visited here with a canister problem were able to pull it without dropping the tank.

 

[jseabolt]

I'm not getting any check engine light codes on my '06 but mine is horrible at trying to fill the fuel tank. If I try to fill the tank while the fuel nozzle is on full blast it kicks off every 2 seconds. Usually I have to select the first notch on the gas nozzle and fill it slower than I would my other cars.

However what's odd is at some gas stations I can fill the tank in a resonable amount of time and at others I can't.

 

[MotorCityFats13]

my fix for this with other cars I have owned was to only stick the gas filler in less than 1/2 way sometimes only like 1/4 of the way... it puts more space between the filler and the rising fuel that causes the kick off problems

 

[MotorCityFats13]

my fix for this with other cars I have owned was to only stick the gas filler in less than 1/2 way sometimes only like 1/4 of the way... it puts more space between the filler and the rising fuel that causes the kick off problems I know its not a fix but I think its more a problem with the filler than your truck

 

[jseabolt]

my fix for this with other cars I have owned was to only stick the gas filler in less than 1/2 way sometimes only like 1/4 of the way... it puts more space between the filler and the rising fuel that causes the kick off problems I know its not a fix but I think its more a problem with the filler than your truck

Yeah. I try not to insert the fuelpump nozzle all the way into the filler hole. It will never fill like that.

I just wondered if this was some sort of design flaw such as the filler hose between the tank and neck is not big enough to handle the volume off fuel at once?

It is weird every now and then I encounter a fuel station that has their flow rate turned down and doesn't kick off (as bad).

Other times I encounter a fuel station (typically Murphy Oil at Wal-Mart ) that has the flow rate jacked up so high the pump won't cut off and sprays fuel all over the place. This happens reguarly with my Subaru Baja.

I assume because their gas stations are so poorly laid out that the faster they can get you in and out the more fuel they can sell fuel. I very seldom stop there due to their poor layout. Not worth the .1 to .2 cent discount per gallon.

Shouldn't there be a standard as far as flow rates at gas pumps? Instead of however fast the manager wants the fuel to pump?

 

[MotorCityFats13]

The calibration prolly sets the speed of flow... If they turn it up it might start counting wrong so older pumps probably have to pump slower... I have not found a pump since i picked up my 07 in december that let me go more than 1 click

 

[jam1ej20]

It's tight, but you should be able to get at the retaining clips and pull things without dropping the tank. Several others that have visited here with a canister problem were able to pull it without dropping the tank.

The only way you're getting to the vapor canister on my explorer to drop the fuel tank or maybe take out the driveshaft and exhaust... I took the canister off this past weekend and blew air through it. There was some resistance and it builds up some pressure. I left it off and ran to the gas pump and it filled up no problem. I put the canister back on and the fuel pump clicks off again.

I ordered a new vapor canister and will install this coming weekend. I will report back when I change it out.

Regarding the codes, I erased them about 200 miles ago now and they haven't returned. We'll just have to wait and see on those...

 

[jam1ej20]

Also, this is the TSB that applies: TSB 07-25-3
http://www.revbase.com/BBBMOTOR/TSb/DownloadPdf?id=140577

 

[jam1ej20]

I installed the new fuel vapor canister ($250 from Ford) and all is good now. Fuel flows without cutting the pump off.

Just a warning about the new design for the vent hose: Do NOT buy 8L2Z-9S327-A from Ford. I ordered the part because I was unable to find a picture of it anywhere. Thinking this was a full vent hose (from the filler door all the way down to the purge solenoid) I ordered it from Ford. They tried to charge $44 for the hose. When I went to pick up the parts, the new shepherd's hook design was a barbed fitting and a 6" piece of curved vent hose that you have to splice into your current hose. I declined to buy from Ford and just made my own. I'll post pics of what I made, how it works, and how you can do it too for $3 in parts from Lowes.

 

[jam1ej20]

Remove the vent hose from the elbow at the filler cap.
Get a piece of 5/8 hose. (molded u-bend gas vapor rated hose is best)
Install one end of u-bend onto elbow and the other end to old vent line with 5/8" barbed fitting.

This new shepherd's hook design stops water from being able to enter the vapor system and clog your canister. The water can't travel up-hill.

The original design had the vapor hose connected directly to the elbow which would allow water to travel down the hose.