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CEL that wont quit

glh1968

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Ok heres what Ive done so far. First when I bought it (about a month ago) the CEL would come on and stay on, So I put a new MAF and O2 sens in and reset the computer. Well I drove it a while and the CEL would come on every now and then for about 2 seconds then go out. Gas milage went from 13 to 20 MPG, everything was good till now. Now the CEL comes on and stays on again, Ive cleaned the MAF, reset the computer, and it still comes on. I dont have any raw fuel in the vacume lines for the Fuel pressure. The codes Ive manage to pull are a 173, 179, and a 538. Please Help me

Thanks
 


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G

geoph1986

173
(R,M)
Oxygen sensor not switching - system is or was rich - Single, Right or Rear HO2S - Fuel control

179
(M)
Fuel system was rich at part throttle Single, Right or Rear HO2S - Fuel control

538
(R)
System did not receive "goose" test - TESTS
 




MrShorty

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KOEr 538 is almost always operator error. Review the test instructions and make sure you give it the goose test at the appropriate time.

Are the O2 sensor codes KOER codes or CM codes or both? Did it pass (111) the KOEO test.

Both O2 sensor codes point to a rich condition. From other symptoms (condition of spark plugs or exhaust or other) would you agree that the engine is running rich or running lean?

1st test with most O2 sensor codes is to check fuel pressure.
 




glh1968

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The O2 codes are KOEO test, my guess is its rich. Another thing is when I let off the gas and press in the clutch the engine doesnt drop to Idle right away. It hangs at the RPM it was at when I pressed in the clutch and slowly drops to Idle RPM. Thats without the CEL on.
 




mhallack

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Raising hand in the back row?

How do you reset the computer after replacing a part? For me I only did the mass air flow sensor. Thanks
 




Currency

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Raising hand in the back row?

How do you reset the computer after replacing a part? For me I only did the mass air flow sensor. Thanks

Unhook your battery for a period of 30 minutes.
 




MrShorty

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The O2 codes are KOEO test,
which means they must be CM codes. You might review my "notes on pulling EEC-IV codes" thread to see how to distinguish between KOEO and CM codes during the KOEO test. Does this also mean that they didn't come up during the KOER test?

my guess is its rich
based on the O2 sensor codes or what? Just trying to see if the O2 sensor is accurately reporting the fault condition or if there is some disconnect between the sensor's reading and reality.
 




glh1968

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Based on what the old O2 sens looked like (Black)
 




mhallack

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Unhook your battery for a period of 30 minutes.

Did that, keeps coming up anyway. But the good part is that it does seem to run a bit better, no more slowing down when going into overdrive. I'll check anyway the codes tomorrow and see what pulls up. Or may fix it like my boss at his taxi company fixes cel lights. Piece of duct tape over it, can see it, it's not there!!:p:
 




Currency

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Did that, keeps coming up anyway. But the good part is that it does seem to run a bit better, no more slowing down when going into overdrive. I'll check anyway the codes tomorrow and see what pulls up. Or may fix it like my boss at his taxi company fixes cel lights. Piece of duct tape over it, can see it, it's not there!!:p:

I've been around cars and carlots my entire life. I'd just remove the bulb for the CEL :)

But I wouldn't sell a car that I wouldn't want to keep myself. So that means new plugs wires and the works. :)
 




G

geoph1986

I'd just remove the bulb for the CEL :)

That's what the guy I got my X from did, and it didn't make the problem go away. What it did do was make it extremely hard to figure out what the problems were, because I didn't know the bulb was gone. I discovered the bulb was missing when I had the cluster out. Telling someone to remove the CEL bulb is just bad advice, kinda like saying to fix a crack in the windshield, use a hammer.
 




Currency

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Telling someone to remove the CEL bulb is just bad advice, kinda like saying to fix a crack in the windshield, use a hammer.

That would certainly fix my cracked windshield :p:

I personally wouldn't pull the bulb. Just saying that's what others have done. Carlots use many tricks, That's why I don't trust carlots. Sawdust fixes a slipping transmission but I don't recommend that because I'd be pissed if I bought a vehicle like that. Also heard putting 1/2 to one qt of tranny fluid in the oil will fix knocking lifters. But again I wouldn't recommend it.

I've fixed and sold many cars and have made money from it. But like I said in my last post I do everything to them that I would do if I were to keep it and drive it daily. I make sure everything is in good working order, replace plugs, wires, change the oil, tranny fluid, flush the radiator, check the brakes, replace the air filter. It costs me a buck but when it comes to selling cars and internet conversations all you have is your word. screw someone over once and the word spreads rather quickly.
 




nitro71

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Just keep tracking down the problem. Get down pulling your codes or get a code reader to do it. Check out your local junk yards. Pull n save types are usually inexpensive to go pull parts so you can try swapping stuff out if you have to.
 




mhallack

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With the covering up the CEL with duct tape, was only saying that half serious. I have done a few things like change the air filter and replaced the mass air flow sensor, checked all fluids, and got the 4X4 working again. When I got the explorer, you push either 4X4 button and nothing would happen. When the money allows I will be putting in all new shocks on all wheels, and getting the plugs changed. Which leads to a quetion of should the wires be replaced too with the plugs (outward appearences they look fine)

I did pull the code too and tried to translate them, got 111, 133, 233, and 2. Tried it three times and they all came up the same. Still don't know what 133 is.
 




Currency

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With the covering up the CEL with duct tape, was only saying that half serious. I have done a few things like change the air filter and replaced the mass air flow sensor, checked all fluids, and got the 4X4 working again. When I got the explorer, you push either 4X4 button and nothing would happen. When the money allows I will be putting in all new shocks on all wheels, and getting the plugs changed. Which leads to a quetion of should the wires be replaced too with the plugs (outward appearences they look fine)

I did pull the code too and tried to translate them, got 111, 133, 233, and 2. Tried it three times and they all came up the same. Still don't know what 133 is.

My haynes manual says 133 is, Upstream heated 02 sensor circuit slow response (bank 1)

I don't know what it means but I hope it helps :)
 




mhallack

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My haynes manual says 133 is, Upstream heated 02 sensor circuit slow response (bank 1)

I don't know what it means but I hope it helps :)

Thanks for checking that, No clue either, likely I'll need to get a new o2 sensor.:hammer:
 




MrShorty

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did pull the code too and tried to translate them, got 111, 133, 233, and 2. Tried it three times and they all came up the same. Still don't know what 133 is.
I wonder if you are misreading the codes. None of my EEC-IV code lists give a 133 nor a 233 (however, P0133 is an OBD-2 code with the same description Currency gave). The other thing I see is the stray 2 at the end of your list.

Is it possible that the "1" you've assigned to the 133 code is really the separator pulse? Then you'd have 111 (KOEO), 1 (separator pulse), 332 332 (CM), which would make a lot more sense. CM 332 points to a problem in the EGR system.

Of course, as my colleagues and I might say, "we don't want a reasonable code list, we want the actual code list in the computer." My first piece of advice would probably be to review the test instructions and then repeat the KOEO test to make sure you are reading them correctly.

SOP is to resolve KOEO codes first, then KOER codes, and finally CM codes. Since it looks like your truck is passing the KOEO test, the other thing I'd recommend is to review the test protocol for the KOER test and include that test the next time you get under the hood.
 




glh1968

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Well I got it fixed thank you all, It was the FPR it was reading 70 psi after replace it now reads 30-32
 




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