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Chain VS. Tow Strap Cont from worst stuck pic thread.

If you never get stuck you arent wheeling as hard as you can.

Burns, you made my point on people being stuck in the old school. Its proven for offroad recovery a strap is better in every way at this point. You are just to closed off from the idea since you were taught otherwise. I was taught carb'd v8's were the best thing ever. WHile I still love them and they have their place in many cases there are better solutions out there.
 



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A chain does have its place in a recovery kit.. I carry a grade 80 chain with me in my kit.. If a situation arises where a vehicle doesn't have a recovery point, I can try to wrap the chain around two main vehicle structures and then attach a D-ring/clevis shackle to it. But most cases a strap is okay, if it requires more than that, then chances are a winch is needed.
 






Chains are only dangerous because people don't use them properly. If there is a chance of the chain breaking than it's not large enough. You guys are also talking about people getting killed while using chains. Are there that many people standing around the chain while they are being used? That's just stupid, there own fault, not the fault of the chain.
 






LOL! To funny to watch people still defend the safety of chains.

And Jones its usually the person in the vehicles that gets maimed or killed. Did you read James's post? I think it was #7?

Really wish someone would dig up that heeper that died. It had pics of the vehicle and a story explaining what happened. After reading that I am very careful when helping someone get unstuck.
 






Positive Vibes said:
And Jones its usually the person in the vehicles that gets maimed or killed. Did you read James's post? I think it was #7?

I did but he was sitting on a tractor with no cab not in an enclosed vehicle.
 






I don't know. I have used chains for years with no problem. My son is always after me to use a strap and he finally bought me one so I put it right next to my chain. Then suddenly my chain vanished. Till today he still won't admit he took my chain.
I went to get some gravel with my Ford truck and had to cross this river stream and I got stuck. The guy driving the pay loader came and pulled me out with about a 3/8' chain. Using his front bucket he lifted my rear end up about 4'-5' in the air and backed out. I asked about using a chain and he said, thats why I lifted the bucket high enough to block myself so I wouldn't get hit if it broke. I figure he must have had a chain break on him before.
But honestly, I am very cautious and never had a problem with chains. Every farmer i kinow uses a chain to pull with.
 






a chain flying with enough force to kill or seriously maim a man is going to have no problems with some auto glass.

Many chain horror stories involve the chain breaking glass or messing up panels, hoods, doors, ect.

WHY RISK IT? Why? Can anyone answer that simple question?

On farms and some other things, yes chains do have a place, but offroad there is no excuse.
 






TheRookie said:
If you never get stuck you arent wheeling as hard as you can.

Burns, you made my point on people being stuck in the old school. Its proven for offroad recovery a strap is better in every way at this point. You are just to closed off from the idea since you were taught otherwise. I was taught carb'd v8's were the best thing ever. WHile I still love them and they have their place in many cases there are better solutions out there.

Its not that im not open to useing a strap. I just have been tought that chains can be very dangerous. my dad has tought me that with proper saftey you can avoid being hurt. I have used a strap before and i didnt like it very much.
 






Burns said:
I will never switch from a chain because i always take the time to make sure everything is in the proper order before i start the enging. This is something my dad has taught me since i was little.
:shifty_ey Burns and chains...


































:p:
 






I actualy laughed out loud enough that I was asked why I was laughing by my gf. THe link to Burns haveing a chain break and him saying he used chains still. If you still use a chain after that happening to you then you sir arent thinking clearly. You even said in the last post in that thread you should carry a strap.

EVERYONE look at that link and the pics. Now imagine a little more energy.... I am sorry but if you use a chain after that happening to you then hopefully the only person that gets hurt when it breaks next time is you. Dont expect much sympathy from people that know better. If you have another one break its darwin award time
 






Every farmer i kinow uses a chain to pull with.

A hundred-thousand lemmings hurl themselves off a cliff every year, so they can't be wrong, can they? I've also seen farmers choke a chain by twisting it, and that an absolute no-no too. Just because the farmers do it doesn't make it right, safe, or a good idea.

Under certain conditions, yes, chain makes sense. Look at a lot of what farmers DO with that chain: Log downed trees on the access roads, hoist things using the bucket of the tractor, etc. The key is the WAY in which they use that chain. Shock-loading a chain is NEVER a good idea. If one can take the slack out of the chain FIRST, then apply the load with a hydraulic system or by driving the tractor, then by all means, go for it. However, if one needs to TUG on the object being pulled, chains are the absolute LAST thing you want to use.

The bottom line is chains do not deal well with shock-loads under the BEST of circumstances, and that involves a properly connected chain with a master link on a bull-ring, no twists in the chain, no kinks, or other defects. One of the FIRST things they teach in any lifting and rigging class is NOT to shock-load the chains, and regular inspection is essential. (Regular inspection of a chain involves a link-by-link inspection of the weld integrity, chain alignment, link thickness in the root as well as looking for any obvious signs of abuse (gouges, nicks, and severe abrasions). I find it hard to believe anyone on here advocating the use of chain does those types of inspections. If it wouldn't pass an inspection to rig something to hoist, and it's not designed to take shock-loads, how could chain possibly be a good choice for recovering a stuck vehicle?


But honestly, I am very cautious and never had a problem with chains.
I know an electrician that used a similar phrase about working in electrical panels without arc-flash equipment. He now has permanent scarring on his left arm. Do as you see fit, but don't endanger others.

old mechanic said:
I don't know. I have used chains for years with no problem. My son is always after me to use a strap and he finally bought me one so I put it right next to my chain. Then suddenly my chain vanished. Till today he still won't admit he took my chain.
I went to get some gravel with my Ford truck and had to cross this river stream and I got stuck. The guy driving the pay loader came and pulled me out with about a 3/8' chain. Using his front bucket he lifted my rear end up about 4'-5' in the air and backed out. I asked about using a chain and he said, thats why I lifted the bucket high enough to block myself so I wouldn't get hit if it broke. I figure he must have had a chain break on him before.

Again, look at the manner in which he used it. Took up the slack gently, THEN hoisted the vehicle, then backed out.

briwayjones said:
Chains are only dangerous because people don't use them properly. If there is a chance of the chain breaking than it's not large enough. You guys are also talking about people getting killed while using chains. Are there that many people standing around the chain while they are being used? That's just stupid, there own fault, not the fault of the chain.

Absolutely NOT true. I've seen 7/8" grade-8 alloy-steel chains rated for 30,000 lbs on each leg snap like rubber bands because they weren't rigged properly, slipped, and jerked the chain while carrying a 12,000 lb load. The shock load sent the chain up through a piston bore and busted a guy's hand (who was foolishly holding the chain to guide the chain, but that's another issue). I also personally know a guy that lost his eye and a good chunk of the left side of his face to a chain just two months ago . The chain was properly rigged, but the load shifted, snapping the chain, and sending a chunk into his head. (Had it been 1/2" further to the side, doctors said he likely wouldn't have survived) In both cases, the chains had been inspected and certified less than a week before the incident, and both operators had visually inspected the chains before their use as required by company policy. Said policies are in place to help prevent this from happening, but even the best-laid plans don't always work.

Look up the info from ANY chain manufacturer, and that'll be one of the first things they tell you: DO NOT SHOCK LOAD OUR CHAINS. Chains are not designed to handle shock loads. They cannot stretch to absorb the ENERGY created by a 7000 lb truck moving. That's what straps are for.

For more good reading about chains and their proper use, go to http://www.thecrosbygroup.com/2002edition/ASSETS/MetricPDF/M7_Chain&Accessories.pdf
From page 3 of that publication, accent added:
It must be recognized that certain factors in the usage of chain and attachments can be abusive and lessen the load that the chain or attachments can withstand. Som examples are twisting of the chain, disfigurement, deterioration by straining, usage, weather and corrosion, rapid application of load or jerking and applying excessive loads, and sharp corners cutting action.


For more good info on proper rigging of chains, see http://www.thecrosbygroup.com/productcatalog/maininterface.htm

-Joe

edit: PS: Oldmech, I don't want you to think I'm picking on you.... It's nothing personal, I just disagree with you, that's all. :) :chug
 






^^ excelent post
thanks
 






FROADER said:

Burns, if there would of been some more energy behind that chain, say maybe a hook attached it would of hit you right in the damn face. If you ever get hurt by a chain after that im nominating you for a darwin award.

Wait a second....

Burns said:
it was a break from pressure i never jerk a chain because the above could happen so i guess i will be using a strap or put a weight bag on the winch im done with chains


Burns said:
I will never switch from a chain because i always take the time to make sure everything is in the proper order before i start the enging. This is something my dad has taught me since i was little. oh and i would love not to get stuck but if you do not get stuck u never know what ur rig can do lol
 






that chain simply broke i have thought of y it would have broke and im really not sure i found the weak link in that chain. Im not done with chains. at that time i was because i was not properly ready to use them since then i have read up about. yeah i have looked into straps but its just a preferance. i have also looked into a synthetic rope for my winch. i also do not jerk a chain. previous lessons from my dad tought me not to do that. when that chain broke i was just spinning in the dirt not moving a inch.
 






gijoecam said:
A hundred-thousand lemmings hurl themselves off a cliff every year, so they can't be wrong, can they? I've also seen farmers choke a chain by twisting it, and that an absolute no-no too. Just because the farmers do it doesn't make it right, safe, or a good idea.

Under certain conditions, yes, chain makes sense. Look at a lot of what farmers DO with that chain: Log downed trees on the access roads, hoist things using the bucket of the tractor, etc. The key is the WAY in which they use that chain. Shock-loading a chain is NEVER a good idea. If one can take the slack out of the chain FIRST, then apply the load with a hydraulic system or by driving the tractor, then by all means, go for it. However, if one needs to TUG on the object being pulled, chains are the absolute LAST thing you want to use.

The bottom line is chains do not deal well with shock-loads under the BEST of circumstances, and that involves a properly connected chain with a master link on a bull-ring, no twists in the chain, no kinks, or other defects. One of the FIRST things they teach in any lifting and rigging class is NOT to shock-load the chains, and regular inspection is essential. (Regular inspection of a chain involves a link-by-link inspection of the weld integrity, chain alignment, link thickness in the root as well as looking for any obvious signs of abuse (gouges, nicks, and severe abrasions). I find it hard to believe anyone on here advocating the use of chain does those types of inspections. If it wouldn't pass an inspection to rig something to hoist, and it's not designed to take shock-loads, how could chain possibly be a good choice for recovering a stuck vehicle?



I know an electrician that used a similar phrase about working in electrical panels without arc-flash equipment. He now has permanent scarring on his left arm. Do as you see fit, but don't endanger others.



Again, look at the manner in which he used it. Took up the slack gently, THEN hoisted the vehicle, then backed out.



Absolutely NOT true. I've seen 7/8" grade-8 alloy-steel chains rated for 30,000 lbs on each leg snap like rubber bands because they weren't rigged properly, slipped, and jerked the chain while carrying a 12,000 lb load. The shock load sent the chain up through a piston bore and busted a guy's hand (who was foolishly holding the chain to guide the chain, but that's another issue). I also personally know a guy that lost his eye and a good chunk of the left side of his face to a chain just two months ago . The chain was properly rigged, but the load shifted, snapping the chain, and sending a chunk into his head. (Had it been 1/2" further to the side, doctors said he likely wouldn't have survived) In both cases, the chains had been inspected and certified less than a week before the incident, and both operators had visually inspected the chains before their use as required by company policy. Said policies are in place to help prevent this from happening, but even the best-laid plans don't always work.

Look up the info from ANY chain manufacturer, and that'll be one of the first things they tell you: DO NOT SHOCK LOAD OUR CHAINS. Chains are not designed to handle shock loads. They cannot stretch to absorb the ENERGY created by a 7000 lb truck moving. That's what straps are for.

For more good reading about chains and their proper use, go to http://www.thecrosbygroup.com/2002edition/ASSETS/MetricPDF/M7_Chain&Accessories.pdf
From page 3 of that publication, accent added:



For more good info on proper rigging of chains, see http://www.thecrosbygroup.com/productcatalog/maininterface.htm

-Joe

edit: PS: Oldmech, I don't want you to think I'm picking on you.... It's nothing personal, I just disagree with you, that's all. :) :chug
------------
No problem with you disagreing.
For discussion, what did they use before straps came out to tow or free anything stuck in the mud or whatever?
First-Leather, second-rope, third-chain, last-straps. I know they were not pulling out a buried 4x4 but there were many wagon teams buried in mud traveling across country or stuck while harrowing-plowing and then when they came out with tractors they would get burried and pulled out too. I doubt many of them got hurt or killed back then, well after a few got hurt or killed :D then they found out that they needed a larger size or better towing-pulling equipment.
Like said proper towing equipment and method is very important. I have seen many not wanting to spend the extra $$$ for the next size up rope-chain-straps from what is required and thats when problems start.
Believe me, I am not old fashioned when it comes to safety but I believe that with proper equipment-method chains are ok to use.
I mentioned before about my son stealing my chain and buying me a 25,000 lb rated tow-snag-strap. I asked him, how many times-years have we gone hunting-fishing 2-3 miles in off the main roads in dirt-mud-snow roads and got burried and the chains got us out safely. His answer was yes but there is something better out now so why not use it? OK, but that still does not make proper size chains and proper towing-pulling equipment unsafe.
Also we have gone to many animal-truck pulling contests and you will see them towing the heavy sleds with a chain.
Now your really going to think I am really old fashioned- I will take a 1" nylon tripple stranded rope over anything else, just have to be carefull of chafing making it unsafe. Same as with straps.
 






Who's talking about shock loading a chain? Of course you can't just yank on a chain without taking the slack out. That's part of the proper use of a chain. Personally though I wouldn't want to do that with a strap either, I don't think they give enough. If I was going to do it it would be with a rope.
 






TheRookie said:
I actualy laughed out loud enough that I was asked why I was laughing by my gf. THe link to Burns haveing a chain break and him saying he used chains still. If you still use a chain after that happening to you then you sir arent thinking clearly. You even said in the last post in that thread you should carry a strap.

EVERYONE look at that link and the pics. Now imagine a little more energy.... I am sorry but if you use a chain after that happening to you then hopefully the only person that gets hurt when it breaks next time is you. Dont expect much sympathy from people that know better. If you have another one break its darwin award time
U can think that if you want but i would never wish a chain breaking and hitting someone in the face.
 






briwayjones said:
Who's talking about shock loading a chain? Of course you can't just yank on a chain without taking the slack out. That's part of the proper use of a chain. Personally though I wouldn't want to do that with a strap either, I don't think they give enough. If I was going to do it it would be with a rope.

some straps (snatch straps) are meant to be used like that.

Burns said:
U can be ahole if you want but i would never wish a chain breaking and hitting someone in the face. retard

:crazy:

Hes being realistic, you have said 2 totally oppisite things regarding chains, you have seen first hand the damage they cause when being used correctly (because thats the way you always do it and were taught) So if you get hurt, its kinda your own fault. I dont think you realize how close that chain could of come to killing you. KILLING YOU :dead: . Like 410 said in your whoops thread, 18 inches to the left and it woulda hit you square in the head.

For all those to lazy

window.jpg


He said he had his head out the window at the time it broke.
 






i think breaking a chain by jerking it and putting pressure on it are two diffrent things. when the chain broke it was like it was in slow motion. the person in the passengers seat went right and i went left and then it hit the hood and came up the window and stopped there.
 



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In addition, safety is one of the main reasons why people swap in synthetic ropes instead of the standard wire cable that comes with most winches. :D

comboline-wl-200.jpg
 






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