Chance to buy 100% rust free southern '98 Explorer 168k 4.0 rwd: Advice? | Ford Explorer Forums - Serious Explorations

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Chance to buy 100% rust free southern '98 Explorer 168k 4.0 rwd: Advice?

MrCreosote

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City, State
Jeannette
Year, Model & Trim Level
2010 Ford Escape XLT
Bottom line, what are the chances I can run this over 200k?
What are the most robust generations?
Wiki said 4.0 could be either OHV or OHC: most desirable? interference?

I'm currently welding up a '10 Escape XLT that appeared to have limited rust and have had to do a major LH shock tower reconstruction (should maybe have bot the Dorman repair panel. Rockers need done too. Living in the rust belt in PA makes a 100% rust free southern vehicle extremely attractive. But one bad transmission or heater core and this could become another project I just don't need.
 



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ohc is interference motor, and is known for toming guide issues. if there is no rsttling and the guides are good the rest is stout. the ohv a more reliable motor imo very simple old school motor the trans is imo the weak points my 5r55e has 327k on the original stuff, but many many have not had that luck. keep it cool is your friend with these. imo ohv manual is indestructable and long as they are not overheated. these can go 300 easy

however, i do believe with maintainence ansohc or ohv with an auto that has been taken care of (ie fliud changed) will last 200 imo even not well taken care ofs i have sene hit 150
 






ohc is interference motor, and is known for toming guide issues. if there is no rsttling and the guides are good the rest is stout. the ohv a more reliable motor imo very simple old school motor the trans is imo the weak points my 5r55e has 327k on the original stuff, but many many have not had that luck. keep it cool is your friend with these. imo ohv manual is indestructable and long as they are not overheated. these can go 300 easy

however, i do believe with maintainence ansohc or ohv with an auto that has been taken care of (ie fliud changed) will last 200 imo even not well taken care ofs i have sene hit 150
Given the history is not known, if an OHC, sounds like a timing belt/guide replacement should be done - I read there was an upgrade for the guides. ... appears the Cologne OHC has two timing chains, front and rear: (!!!)

Timing chain problems[edit]

The 4.0 SOHC engine was notorious for the OEM timing chain guides and tensioners breaking, resulting in timing chain rattle or "death rattle". This problem can occur as early as 45,000 mi (72,000 km) in some vehicles. Due to the SOHC engine's unique design involving both front and rear timing chains, the repair of the timing guides would often require complete engine removal depending on the severity of the problem. When the engine is run for an extended period of time with this issue the engine can jump timing, damaging the heads and valves.
Timing chain rattle was mitigated in later years of the SOHC (in most vehicles, after 2002) with updated cassettes and tensioners. This problem occurs with varying frequency among some Ford vehicles equipped with the SOHC engine including the Ford Mustang, Ford Explorer, and Ford Ranger. The 4.0 OHV was not affected by this issue.[6]

RE: HP: read big difference in HP between the OHV & OHC: something like 160 and 210.
RE: FUEL ECONOMY: OHV vs OHC? fueleconomy.gov: 14-19 vs 14-18 respectively.

I'm guessing the OHV w/less

Any head gasket issues?

Also, if trans fluid was never changed/flushed, some say don't do it now most likely because deposits have built up on the clutches and fresh fluid could interfere with the stability of those deposits and degrade clutch action. One approach might be a "gradual" fluid change like replacing 1 qt with new every so many miles.

MY CONCLUSION:
  • Seriously considering NOT BUYING if OHC engine.
    EDIT NOTE: Just talked to garage owner friend who has the car now, and he looked at the engine and is very sure it is OHV because if it was an OHC (he knows what both look like), it would have set off warning signs on his "radar."
  • Wiki said it was offered in non-XL trims (non-base trims), I did not notice the trim level, but it has power seats and a CD player.
  • However, my recently purchased, 229k original owner '10 Escape would be my primary vehicle - this Explorer would be a "backup" and definitely would get classic plate and classic insurance, and be driven maybe 1000 miles per year, so even if OHC and engine sounds good, might still be a low "cam guides" risk.
 






It depends on the price if it’s worth it. It’s still got an anemic transmission. Any vehicle at 170k could be knocking on a major repair.

The problem with classic plates is that it can’t be a backup vehicle. If your escape breaks (if you have the 3.0 with 200k+ a major breakdown shouldn’t be ruled out at any time) you can’t just start driving the Explorer. You also still need the yearly inspection.
 






What's the selling price of the vehicle?
 






It depends on the price if it’s worth it. It’s still got an anemic transmission. Any vehicle at 170k could be knocking on a major repair.

The problem with classic plates is that it can’t be a backup vehicle. If your escape breaks (if you have the 3.0 with 200k+ a major breakdown shouldn’t be ruled out at any time) you can’t just start driving the Explorer. You also still need the yearly inspection.

First, I'm 70, retired, drive 4000 miles a year and have found myself on crutches 3 times in the past 10 years - a real problem for all the stick shift cars I have.

I live alone and have 4 cars right now, 2 w/classic - the Explorer would be my 5th.

In PA near Pittsburgh, the police don't seem to bother people with expired anything. (I think this is probably related to they optically scan every car real time and find warrants, etc. instantly. In the past, the legitimate expired traffic stop was partly due to flush out no insurance, warrants, etc. so now they don't have to fish: they let the technology do its job. We don't even have license plate stickers anymore because of this.)

Here is the proposed Vehicle Hierarchy:
  • Primary Vehicle: '10 Escape
  • Secondary Vehicle: '74 Datsun Pickup
  • Classic Vehicle: '98 Explorer and 2 others
In the event of the Escape expiring:
  • Primary Vehicle: '74 Datsun Pickup (would be shopping to replace the Escape)
  • Classic Vehicle: '98 Explorer and 2 others
The main mission for the primary vehicle is to deal with medical issues such as being on crutches, etc. and need an automatic and AC for fighting rush hour in Pittsburgh for doctor appointments.

NOTE: Recent medical problems occurred from my 6-7-21 car crash of a rust free California 87 Chevy Turbo Sprint driving from PA to SC, 9am in morning. Evidence says I fell asleep at the wheel. I've managed drowsiness my entire life, but this was atypical and I think possibly related to 2 week previous COVIC vaccine. Who knows... but I did kill one of the last unicorns.

What's the selling price of the vehicle?
$1000 totally covered in green mold from sitting in shade.
 






$1000 totally covered in green mold from sitting in shade.
If it runs and drives, only needing basic fluid changes and maybe some tires to make it road worthy, it's a good deal
 






If it runs and drives, only needing basic fluid changes and maybe some tires to make it road worthy, it's a good deal
Since the owner passed away, there is no information such as how it was maintenance, timing belt/chain, fluid changes, etc. However, garage owner buddy noticed it had new rear shocks on it which is an indication that it was taken care of to some degree. Plus she brought it from GA to PA even though she was going to live with her sister since she was very sick.

Interior is pretty good, dirty. Only damage is the console lid is totally duct taped up (Lady who owned it was very big so it might have been broken while pushing off getting out of car.
 






The console lids are almost all bad by now. Easy to repair and recover. For $1,000 it’s worth just the rust free cab.
 






There’s no belt or chain to worry about in the OHV. The timing sets are very robust. The biggest maintenance items to complete would be all of the fluids. The brake fluid is probably totally green from sitting. The blend doors commonly fail, which might hinder the AC. A proper repair is a huge job, but there’s a work around where you cut the heater box.
 






There’s no belt or chain to worry about in the OHV. The timing sets are very robust. The biggest maintenance items to complete would be all of the fluids. The brake fluid is probably totally green from sitting. The blend doors commonly fail, which might hinder the AC. A proper repair is a huge job, but there’s a work around where you cut the heater box.
Thank You so much for the tips!
  • No belt or chain to worry about is music to my ears! (I'm a lifetime Studebaker guy and those cams are gear drive!)
  • Fluids for sure. Hadn't thought of the brake fluid, but yes, definitely.
  • Blend doors: yep, have encountered them especially in my 1969 C20 w/AC and really like the cutting hole in heater box!
The console lids are almost all bad by now. Easy to repair and recover. For $1,000 it’s worth just the rust free cab.
That's the way I looked at it. I feel the same way about southern rust free vehicles. And I'm sure there is an Explorer fanbase - especially here in the rust belt. This is going to get the best, most thorough Fluid Film seam weld/cavity/internal application possible. Then the CRC Marine / Blaster Surface Shield on the outer surfaces.

I've see Escape rust outs (mine and many in junkyard). The wheel arches are horrific, the panels don't mate properly, the pinch welds pull them together at the weld while they bulge apart between welds and so rust out. The inner construction in the floor/frame at the dog leg is a complicated structure that even "triple construction" I don't think would characterize it.

I'm hoping this Gen 2 Explorer has "older school" unibody tech and is not as rust prone as the Escape. For one, the Explorer wheel arches are absolute perfection as far as fit. So there definitely is a superior build quality.​
 






Back then they weren't unibody, instead body on frame. They can definitely rust out, but of course it takes a lot longer for thicker frame metal to rust versus formed sheetmetal on a unibody's strut tower mounts. The only suspension rust related concerns I've had were lower shock mounts, upper rear shock mount rail (which hasn't failed yet) and leaf spring shackles (which are now about due for replacement).

They are notorious for having the rocker panels and doglegs rust out in salty winter environments. My '98 had those panels replaced over a decade ago, and now it needs them again. Several things have rusted out on mine, from brake lines to cargo floor pan (behind right rear wheel due to slung salty snow sludge) to lower shock mounts, exhaust shield welds, exhaust, fog light brackets, sway bar links, etc... more than I can remember. However my frame is still intact (knock on wood).

It took over a decade for any of that to happen (and most of it after ~20 years of salty winter roads) so if starting with no to light rust today, you should have that decade + and probably much longer since you aren't putting a lot of miles on per year.

At the same time it's an old SUV, likely needs at least wear related suspension work done soon (if not done already), and replace the fluids as others have mentioned.

If the tranny starts slipping with fresh fluid, there are viscosity modifier products you can add to it to thicken it.
 






Just to add a bit of info. I have a '95 XLT with the 4.0 OHV motor. She has 214,500 miles presently. Purchased from org owner in '01, sold to a friend for his daughter to drive back/forth to school in '18, and bought back last year (I had a need, the daughter was done with her, $500). The motor/trans have not been gone into. My friend had the radiator and power steering pump replaced. There is a slight front seal oil leak, and a slight timing cover water leak. Early on I added an additional external transmission fluid filter (my friend was surprised when I asked him about it, he never saw it :D). AFAIK, the transmission has never been an issue (stock automatic). No rust issues that I've noticed. Sadly, the daughter was not much for car washing, and the paint has suffered.

Good luck with your decision,

ACE

Oh yeah, from '10 thru '17 she was used to tow my track bike/trailer, and carry all my gear, many weekends per season. No issues other than a bit down on power going up some hills enroute. But she managed.
 






Back then they weren't unibody, instead body on frame. They can definitely rust out, but of course it takes a lot longer for thicker frame metal to rust versus formed sheetmetal on a unibody's strut tower mounts. The only suspension rust related concerns I've had were lower shock mounts, upper rear shock mount rail (which hasn't failed yet) and leaf spring shackles (which are now about due for replacement).

They are notorious for having the rocker panels and doglegs rust out in salty winter environments. My '98 had those panels replaced over a decade ago, and now it needs them again. Several things have rusted out on mine, from brake lines to cargo floor panel to lower shock mounts, exhaust shield welds, exhaust, fog light brackets, sway bar links, etc... more than I can remember. However my frame is still intact (knock on wood).

It took over a decade for any of that to happen (and most of it after ~20 years of salty winter roads) so if starting with no to light rust today, you should have that decade + and probably much longer since you aren't putting a lot of miles on per year.

At the same time it's an old SUV, likely needs at least wear related suspension work done soon (if not done already), and replace the fluids as others have mentioned.

If the tranny starts slipping with fresh fluid, there are viscosity modifier products you can add to it to thicken it.

FRAME! Great! Should make rustproofing much more effective. I'm sure all those components are not rusted - the rockers are spooky perfect (OE paint on bottom pinch weld is 100% intact and not failing.)
Leaf Spring Shackles: Noted
Trans Slipping w/Fresh Fluid: Viscosity Modifiers: Noted

Just to add a bit of info. I have a '95 XLT with the 4.0 OHV motor. She has 214,500 miles presently. Purchased from org owner in '01, sold to a friend for his daughter to drive back/forth to school in '18, and bought back last year (I had a need, the daughter was done with her, $500). The motor/trans have not been gone into. My friend had the radiator and power steering pump replaced. There is a slight front seal oil leak, and a slight timing cover water leak. Early on I added an additional external transmission fluid filter (my friend was surprised when I asked him about it, he never saw it :D). AFAIK, the transmission has never been an issue (stock automatic). No rust issues that I've noticed. Sadly, the daughter was not much for car washing, and the paint has suffered.

Good luck with your decision,

ACE

Oh yeah, from '10 thru '17 she was used to tow my track bike/trailer, and carry all my gear, many weekends per season. No issues other than a bit down on power going up some hills enroute. But she managed.

External Transmission Filter: Great idea, never thought of it. In fact, a Transmission Cooler should add significant life to any trans - in fact I may look into putting one on my '10 Escape (good grief, I found one with what looked like factory tow hitch - didn't think to see if it had a factory trans cooler. It's been a couple months since back at Upull& Pay and the tow hitch one is probably crushed - you snooze you loose in that place.
 






Interior is pretty good, dirty. Only damage is the console lid is totally duct taped up (Lady who owned it was very big so it might have been broken while pushing off getting out of car.
SEE HERE:
 






If the center console lid isn't cracked (which mine was and can also be fixed with reinforcement epoxied in), you can buy vinyl material at a craft or sewing oriented store to DIY repair it. Pretty simple repair, just heat it a bit with a hairdryer to stretch into position before putting short staples in (at least IIRC, short staples hold it down), then after stapled down, trim off excess with a razor blade.
 






yes most lid wraps are held in by those staples. if cracked you can usually fill it and color match it. time consuming and not worth it imo unless its a seat.
Given the history is not known, if an OHC, sounds like a timing belt/guide replacement should be done - I read there was an upgrade for the guides. ... appears the Cologne OHC has two timing chains, front and rear: (!!!)

Timing chain problems[edit]

The 4.0 SOHC engine was notorious for the OEM timing chain guides and tensioners breaking, resulting in timing chain rattle or "death rattle". This problem can occur as early as 45,000 mi (72,000 km) in some vehicles. Due to the SOHC engine's unique design involving both front and rear timing chains, the repair of the timing guides would often require complete engine removal depending on the severity of the problem. When the engine is run for an extended period of time with this issue the engine can jump timing, damaging the heads and valves.
Timing chain rattle was mitigated in later years of the SOHC (in most vehicles, after 2002) with updated cassettes and tensioners. This problem occurs with varying frequency among some Ford vehicles equipped with the SOHC engine including the Ford Mustang, Ford Explorer, and Ford Ranger. The 4.0 OHV was not affected by this issue.[6]

RE: HP: read big difference in HP between the OHV & OHC: something like 160 and 210.
RE: FUEL ECONOMY: OHV vs OHC? fueleconomy.gov: 14-19 vs 14-18 respectively.

I'm guessing the OHV w/less

Any head gasket issues?

Also, if trans fluid was never changed/flushed, some say don't do it now most likely because deposits have built up on the clutches and fresh fluid could interfere with the stability of those deposits and degrade clutch action. One approach might be a "gradual" fluid change like replacing 1 qt with new every so many miles.

MY CONCLUSION:
  • Seriously considering NOT BUYING if OHC engine.
    EDIT NOTE: Just talked to garage owner friend who has the car now, and he looked at the engine and is very sure it is OHV because if it was an OHC (he knows what both look like), it would have set off warning signs on his "radar."
  • Wiki said it was offered in non-XL trims (non-base trims), I did not notice the trim level, but it has power seats and a CD player.
  • However, my recently purchased, 229k original owner '10 Escape would be my primary vehicle - this Explorer would be a "backup" and definitely would get classic plate and classic insurance, and be driven maybe 1000 miles per year, so even if OHC and engine sounds good, might still be a low "cam guides" risk.
the sohc has like 5 chains LOL primary on the front and back one to each VC and then one balance shaft chain if 4wd. think thats 5? yes there are upgraded tensioners and guides. however, the OG 98 ones lasted 310 on this one, so i think its how you care for it etc.

yep SOHC has big power jump, and sohc has better mileage potential IMO, but theyre pretty close.

sohc has great gaskets, studs cant take much boost, but youre not going that way anyway. ohv has issues when overheated iirc.

yeah, that too. depends on how its been taken care of.

if he think its an ohv, thats good. even if a guide goes on vacation there have been a good amout of members who have put miles on it rattling with no issue. at 1k a year, i think an explorer is a good backup. if it was a DD id go v8, but for a grand, guess its a good deal. dont see that here!
 






^ I don't mean cracked vinyl cover but rather cracked plastic lid frame under it. My frame cracked and I fixed it up with stiff wire embedded in epoxy, filling the lid frame. I wouldn't bother trying to patch a cracked vinyl cover.
 









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probably im wrong LOL youre the resident expert :) i just remember reading something about studs on these somewhere, but cant remember where.
 






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