Climate change- the BIG question-Join in!

[BIGHVM]

Is this fact or a global condition that has happened many times before in the earths past?

I have my doubts bout this as I have read many articles disclaiming it written by scientific types in the picture on such matters.

Is it true that cows fart effects the Ozone more than driving?
Is it true that paying huge taxes to our governments will fix the ozone layer?
do they have a secret machine that sucks in poison gases and emits pure ozone?

What do you all think?
I assume like me, as you drive Explorers- you do not fully believe whats being said about climate change and cars, for my part I think the industrial revolution and all the millions of millions of tons of carbon that went up in the air and driving of cars till now would have shown up sooner than the last few years as bad for the globe.
I also stand firm that recycling were possible is a good thing as it helps to protect the worlds resources, certainly from the point of trees that is good as they absorb carbon dioxide and help the atmosphere.
I really do not feel guilty for my car as I like you- I am sure, keep it running in very good condition, I am aware I should not dump used oil in rivers as fish suffer, and my batterys and consumables for the car are disposed in a proper manner too.

I feel a massive contribution to this post will follow and I welcome views from all over the world on this matter-Give us your thoughts on this here folks please!!!!

 

[Turdle]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/sep/16/climatechange

 

[blueka]

I don't think my not driving an explorer is gonna make an ounce of difference when you've got countries like Russia, China and Korea pumping infinite tons of crap into the atmosphere..

And paying more tax to the government is not gonna make an ounce of difference

Si

 

[Joe Dirt]

I agree with Si.

It's a crock of something, but not truth.

 

[blueka]

I think until countries that i've already named are made to sort themselves out then it's unfair of our government to expect us to reform.

I choose to drive a big car because it's safer than a small one in an impact. I choose to drive a 4x4 because sometimes I like to goto places that I couldn't normally go in a normal road car. So why should I be penalised because I want to be free? The world's gone mad.

yes I know there are more economic 4x4's out there but I don't like them. I like my Ford Explorer and as there's not a diesel option over here and LPG is too expensive to convert to, what choice do I really have?

Si

 

[RhainyC]

Ok here's my two bits...and a reasonable well thought out video about the global warming issue.

Global warming is happening. Period. Whether or not we *caused* it is not the problem. Now the problem becomes what can we do to lessen it's impact...

I won't nit pick here, just share a very interesting video, that if it does nothing but make you re-think things, is worth the almost 10 mins time it takes to watch it.

 

[calisoundmix]

that's a great video, great way to simplify it

i'm convinced we have altered the earths climate in some way, not necessarily for the bad though, yet. as for those who say it's a natural cycle, well it is to an extent but we are simulating a large part of it by our releases. the larger point i'm worried about is all the secondary sources of so called greenhouse gases, like methane, did you know it's more than 20 times as potent as CO2?

and not only that but did you know that there are significant deposits of frozen methane in the permafrost near the northern and southern poles? and there are massive deposits of frozen methane under the ocean where they are only kept in check by the extreme pressure and the coldness of the ocean, if the ocean temp rises enough to release these deposits we could be devastated, our planet has a history of methane releases with mild to extreme consequences.

like when volcanoes triggered the last methane release, about 50 million years ago. within the span of a single decade water temps rose ~20 degrees! and fossils from that era show ferns and swamp type plants growing in the north pole. the scary thing is thats not as bad as it gets, about 250 million years ago the largest known methane release happened and it wiped out 94% of all life at that time, would we survive? yes, but under this worst case scenario our planet would probably look more like mars than what we know today.

but i digressed, as for your questions paying higher taxes usually just means higher subsidies for the next generation of big business, and often results in "fake green" like ethanol and some recycling, i mean the only reason paper and plastic are recycled because OUR taxes are given to recycling companies to do it, recycling plastic and paper costs more and produces more waste than starting from scratch with new resources, and as for the hippies whining about trees, guess what we grow forests just to make trees, and we are at no shortage of landfill space, just look at socal, the pour dirt over their landfills and turn them into golf courses and wildlife habitats.

and as for driving a "gas guzzler" suv, i am contributing less of a CO2 footprint as hippies call it, then your average guy who buys a new fuel efficient car every 5 years, by using my car to it's maximum life i save it from the highly energy intensive process of separating and reusing the metal and other component.

but i'm rambling and i'd love to hear others points on this..

 

[storlied]

I'd like to know more about these methane releases.. any resources I can read up on? Any other information to share? This is quite interesting.

 

[calisoundmix]

sure, i first heard about it on a science channel program (offshoot of discovery channel) but i did a quick google for "methane global warming ocean" and heres a few good articles

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_20060830/ai_n16692997
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=global-warming-spurs-ocea
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/01/040113080810.htm

if work slows down later i'll go more in-depth

 

[wetdog]

hi all, its my belief that the world is just going through another climate change.
after all, we have had a volcanic age,an ice age, so why not a water age, caused by the earth warming up and the polar ice caps melting.
the earth is a living thing, and as such is constantly evolving. as are all its inhabitants.
every creature on this planet has evolved to fit in with earths climate at the time.

just my take.

 

[bisjoe]

From John Stossel of ABC News:

"Dr. John Christy, professor of Atmospheric Science at the University of Alabama at Huntsville said: "I remember as a college student at the first Earth Day being told it was a certainty that by the year 2000, the world would be starving and out of energy. Such doomsday prophecies grabbed headlines, but have proven to be completely false." "Similar pronouncements today about catastrophes due to human-induced climate change," he continued, "sound all too familiar and all too exaggerated to me as someone who actually produces and analyzes climate information."

The media, of course, like the exaggerated claims. Most are based on computer models that purport to predict future climates. But computer models are lousy at predicting climate because water vapor and cloud effects cause changes that computers fail to predict. In the mid-1970s, computer models told us we should prepare for global cooling.

Scientists tell reporters that computer models should "be viewed with great skepticism." Well, why aren't they?

The fundamentalist doom mongers also ignore scientists who say the effects of global warming may be benign. Harvard astrophysicist Sallie Baliunas said added CO2 in the atmosphere may actually benefit the world because more CO2 helps plants grow. Warmer winters would give farmers a longer harvest season, and might end the droughts in the Sahara Desert.

Why don't we hear about this part of the global warming argument? "It's the money!" said Dr. Baliunas. "Twenty-five billion dollars in government funding has been spent since 1990 to research global warming. If scientists and researchers were coming out releasing reports that global warming has little to do with man, and most to do with just how the planet works, there wouldn't be as much money to study it." "

 

[rich uk]

its my belief that we as intelligent life cant help but use the resources around us its all good IMO to challenge both sides of the this.. bottled water being shipped around the world is mindless...heating my house with gas is cool or cooler than using wood or coal ,converting my ex to gas is cool ,paying the high taxes on fuel duty(£5 gallon) effects the price of everything we buy+£25 congestion charge...the HGV,s £200 charge to enter low emission zone in london...to the point.....money out of our pockets...and wont be long guys and we wont get near a city in our 4x4 motors...which means I have to buy and insure another car...which also uses energy to maintain ,
that guy in the video proves the point ,whats the answers ...its a biggy and as per usual the poor are going to pay the price finding out...should we feel guilty for being energy users at all ....

 

[Joe Dirt]

Problem is, for every link that supports it, one can be found refuting it.

http://www.politicaldogs.org/2005/05/polar-ice-cap-is-growing.htm

So now the ice caps are growing? I'll pass on this stuff for now.

 

[blueka]

I'm just waiting for that body of water between alaska n russia to freeze back over then I'm gonna drive to the states.. haha.. I wish

Si

 

[Joe Dirt]

Great I'll have the dash pulled by then...

 

[bisjoe]

£200 charge to enter low emission zone in london...to the point.....money out of our pockets...and wont be long guys and we wont get near a city in our 4x4 motors...which means I have to buy and insure another car...which also uses energy to maintain

The city of Seattle may do the same as London, with a toll to enter downtown. They have already done so in effect by charging a city tax of 10% (on top of the state and local sales taxes) on parking.

I make signs for several parking garages, with taxes they are running $15-$35 all day, $250 and up for monthly. When a lot closes down for a new building all the surrounding garages take advantage by raising their rates. It's not driving people to the bus, but rather keeping them on the eastside where Bellevue (almost all free parking, no meters) is booming.

 

[Ian5700]

Well although their is a media consensus that the enhanced greenhouse effect is happening (global warming), there is actually no consensus within the scientific community on whether or not it is actually occured. There is consensus within the scientific community on the greenhouse effect, but not global warming.

The role of humans contribution to co2 levels is very small, as natural levels are way beyond what humans are emitting.

 

[CDW6212R]

The global warming is a political subject designed to get people to accept a redistribution of wealth.

It is unrelated to normal cycles of climate change on Earth. There are far more examples showing the opposite of what global warming people suggest. They are all just distractions to pressure people into allowing a taxation of governments or countries or individuals.

We as humans do have an affect, I do not doubt that. But it is nothing(drop in an ocean) compared to what is being suggested. We would run out of oil centuries before our burning of it showed any real affect on climates.

In the USA the official temperature monitoring sites(hundreds of them) were poorly located and indicated warming trends. When this all started those sites were public knowledge, the locations could be found, and sometimes seen on video or picture descriptions. A huge percentage of them were located on pavement mounted poles, near incendiary units(waste burning), on the side of buildings(heated or AC inside), and near many other sources of unnatural heat. Thus none of that temperature data was accurate or trustworthy. As many of those poor sites were publicized when the global warming garbage began, the site locations were taken down from the official websites.

We as humans need to be careful in not being wasteful. That doesn't mean that we should sacrifice while people like Al Gore keep wasting as much as they want to.

Al Gore is an embarrassment to my state, and my country. He "invented the internet", and believes that he can gain power by this new political agenda. I say go home to your nanny and play games with him/her, but leave me and my community alone.

 

[BIGHVM]

This is turing out to be a real horners nest, with wide and varied thoughts- What is surfacing is that we are making an impact with waste.

For me THIS point below is the main reason for much avoidable waste- worldwide!

I hate to see in this day and age why for example we dont grow banannas in England, I know it can be done in the right conditions using heated green houses etc- but what infact makes the supermarkets buy in from another country is the cost to them, once the labour taken into account its cheaper for them to buy from abroad knowing that people are being paid crap money to slave in fields and even with the plane costs, transportation, storage, increased packing and packaging costs, its STILL cheaper than paying the National mimimum wage in this country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Heres a fact, Years ago I was a manager for Dixons stores group,(Major electrical retailer). When I first started I noted that many of the good, TVs, washing machines etc were made in the UK, brands like, Carlton, triumph existed and sold very well, years later and things had changed- not a single thing on sale in the store or by special order was made in the UK anymore- NOTHING!
It was for brown goods, (Tvs, videos, hi-fi, etc) made in Japan or china
For White goods,( washing machines, fridges, dishwashers etc) made in Europe.

So what killed British Industry-lack of design- NO we could then still do that to a world class standard, lack of skill- NO then we still had people who would learn a trade and stick with it from boy too man with pride too.
It had to do with cheaper labour!!!!!

The millions of litres of aviation fuel, packaging and refrigeration wasted is sinful and underlines the fact that Joe public will not have much of an impact on gas emmisions so long as the above continues, even if we all stopped driving our cars.

 

[rich uk]

I heard the reason ALIENS were not flying around in outer space is that like us they destroyed there worlds through global warming before they could advance beyond localised space travel......
sorry hehehe
rich