Clutch Welded to Flywheel? | Ford Explorer - Ford Ranger Forums - Serious Explorations
  • Register Today It's free!

  • Holiday Special! - 2 for 1 Elite Explorer sale!

    Right now you can purchase an Elite Explorer membership for $20 and receive a two year membership!
    If you have an existing Elite membership contact me by PM and I will upgrade your account manually.

    Click Here to start your membership and get rid of the ads!

Clutch Welded to Flywheel?

BonesDT

Elite Explorer
Joined
July 12, 2002
Messages
1,078
Reaction score
8
City, State
Westchester, NY
Year, Model & Trim Level
Red '99 Sport SOHC 4x4
While off-roading, I was riding the clutch abusively and smoking it up.

I can't shift into gear now when the engine is running. At first, I assumed it was a blown slave cylinder from the heat, which has happened to me before, because I couldn't get the clutch to disengage with the flywheel.

But then I popped off the rubber grommet in the bellhousing, and unlike last time when I had a blown slave cylinder, there was no wetness (leaked brake fluid). Actually it was very dry inside and the clutch resorvoir is still full.

So now I'm thinking that I heated the clutch up so much that it fused to the flywheel. Is this likely?
 



Join the Elite Explorers for $20 each year.
Elite Explorer members see no advertisements, no banner ads, no double underlined links,.
Add an avatar, upload photo attachments, and more!
.





Fredness

Elite Explorer
Joined
June 2, 2000
Messages
611
Reaction score
24
City, State
Tejas!
Year, Model & Trim Level
'05 Sport Trac Adrenalin
More likely that you burned the grease out of the pilot bearing and it siezed to the trans input shaft. Any howling or strange noises?
 






BonesDT

Elite Explorer
Joined
July 12, 2002
Messages
1,078
Reaction score
8
City, State
Westchester, NY
Year, Model & Trim Level
Red '99 Sport SOHC 4x4
no noises.

it has all the symptoms of a blown slave cylinder, yet the clutch pedal still has some resistance, and i don't see a leak anywhere.

trans input shaft seized to pilot bearing in flywheel? that doesn't sound good. how would i be able to remove the transmission then???
 






4x4xbrian.com

Well-Known Member
Joined
October 20, 2006
Messages
165
Reaction score
0
Location
Watkins Glen Ny
City, State
Watkins Glen Ny
Year, Model & Trim Level
01 ranger
Callsign
Btilden
I had a clutch disc disintegrate once, some pieces wedged themselves into the pressure plate. it would not dissenguage at all. no other damage was done, just replaced the disc. if you start it in gear, does it move the truck? if not nothing is siezed. and likely the clutch master cylinder.
 






BonesDT

Elite Explorer
Joined
July 12, 2002
Messages
1,078
Reaction score
8
City, State
Westchester, NY
Year, Model & Trim Level
Red '99 Sport SOHC 4x4
Yes, it moves if started in gear.

I guess im going to have to wait to see when I drop the tranny tomorrow morning (got the driveshafts, cat, and t-case off).

See, I don't have a sense of smell, but I heard everyone I went wheeling with that they were smelling a lot of rubber. I'm kind of interested to see the kind of damage I did.

I really want to get this Centerforce Dual-Friction set. Last time I dropped the tranny to replace the slave last year, I tried to order it, but it was going to take too long to ship so I went ahead and left the stock clutch in.

I'm going to try again, but as prolly with all clutch orders, time is of the essence. I'm going on 2-weeks without my daily driver. 4wheelparts.com says they can get it to me by next week. I talked them down to $312 + 20ship.



OH, and another thing. I've been seeing a lot of rumors about Centerforce Dual-Friction clutch set not coming with a true dual-friction clutch disc for the Explorer kit in particular. I called Centerforce and they denied this.
 






biggs92EB

Elite Explorer
Joined
February 20, 2003
Messages
773
Reaction score
1
City, State
Biggs, CA
Year, Model & Trim Level
92 Special Eddie
I had something very similar happen to me (3 times) in my old Geo. I was always beating the tar out or it and id break the springs out of the clutch disc, which in turn would cause the pressure plate to malfunction. I would have to start it in gear, and slam the other gears. I know it was a geo..:rolleyes:
 






4x4xbrian.com

Well-Known Member
Joined
October 20, 2006
Messages
165
Reaction score
0
Location
Watkins Glen Ny
City, State
Watkins Glen Ny
Year, Model & Trim Level
01 ranger
Callsign
Btilden
Do you really want a dual friction in your daily driver??????? Arent they really harsh? You may want to do a little research on whos got one and do they like it . I'd go with a premium stocker like a "borg warner".....fuel for thought.
 






Fredness

Elite Explorer
Joined
June 2, 2000
Messages
611
Reaction score
24
City, State
Tejas!
Year, Model & Trim Level
'05 Sport Trac Adrenalin
http://rogueperformance.com/clutchandtrans.html

I used it in two daily drivers and I swear by them. There is some slight increase in pedal pressure but not enough to cause problems. I had no problems with city driving or stop-and-go traffic either. Good stuff!
 






BonesDT

Elite Explorer
Joined
July 12, 2002
Messages
1,078
Reaction score
8
City, State
Westchester, NY
Year, Model & Trim Level
Red '99 Sport SOHC 4x4
Yes, I think I do want a dual-friction.

First, I have 33x12.50 MTs to move.

Second, I did an auto-to-manual trans swap. I'm using the "HD" version of the M5OD-R1 transmission, which I believe is the Heavy Duty version specially for the SOHC engine. However, all my clutch components are Ford stock and designed for the non-HD version of the Mazda trans AND designed for the 4.0L OHV engine. Basically, my engine is more powerful than what the clutch I have now is designed for.

Third, I'm a power-freak. I want rough shifts and I want to be able to spin-out those 33's in the rear, which I can't do now (attributing that to my inferior clutch).
 






BonesDT

Elite Explorer
Joined
July 12, 2002
Messages
1,078
Reaction score
8
City, State
Westchester, NY
Year, Model & Trim Level
Red '99 Sport SOHC 4x4
So now I am confused. I dropped the tranny this morning.

Right before I dropped the tranny, I had someone push the clutch while I looked thru the bellhousing hole. The slave cylinder was working.

Then I dropped the tranny, going on this new clutch-siezed-to-flywheel theory. I was ready to see a mangled clutch disc that I had to pry off the flywheel. Instead, the pressure plate and clutch disc looked intact with room for more wear on the clutch disc.

So why was I having problems shifting into gear with the engine running?? Why did the car lurch forward and start driving when I started it in gear with the clutch pushed to the floor??

I thought about the pilot bearing being seized to the trans input shaft theory. Going with that I figured if the power of the engine couldnt break that bond, then how would I be able to pull the trans away from the engine. The trans came off the engine with ease, with the input shaft sliding out of the pilot bearing with no problem.

Something had to have been stuck in the clutch system. The transmission would not disengage with the engine in order to be able to shift gears. Starting the engine in gear wouldn't break-free whatever was stuck. Bringing the truck to a stop stalled the engine instead of breaking anything free. So why was I able to take apart everything with my hands with ease??
 






rookieshooter

Moderator Emeritus
Joined
March 13, 2005
Messages
7,285
Reaction score
1
City, State
Martinsburg WV
Year, Model & Trim Level
84 BII "Li'l Samson"
I once had a tranny that leaked all the fluid out and the gears froze on the spinning shaft. It actually started the truck moving forward even in nutural. Check out all the gears and nutral in tranny. A long shot at best LOL
 






biggs92EB

Elite Explorer
Joined
February 20, 2003
Messages
773
Reaction score
1
City, State
Biggs, CA
Year, Model & Trim Level
92 Special Eddie
have you pulled the pressure plate off and looked at the disc? if the slave cylinder was working the then the pressure plate was being disengaged, which means the pressure plate took a shi* or the disc is screwed. hows the springs look in the disc? throwout bearing?
 






BonesDT

Elite Explorer
Joined
July 12, 2002
Messages
1,078
Reaction score
8
City, State
Westchester, NY
Year, Model & Trim Level
Red '99 Sport SOHC 4x4
rookieshooter: I don't think it's the transmission itself. First of all, even if something froze up inside the transmission, there is no reason why the truck would start driving when it is started in gear AND THE CLUTCH PEDAL IS PUSHED IN. The problem HAS to be in the clutch somewhere, because if the clutch properly disengaged when the pedal is pushed, then nothing should be going to the transmission to begin with, frozen or not.

Second, the engine runs fine when the trans is in neutral and the clutch pedal is not pressed.

biggs92EB: i took off the PP and the clutch disc. However, I was in a rush to get to work this afternoon, so I didn't give it a good analysis just yet. I will tell you I was suprised to see that the clutch disc looked completely fine. Even if the clutch disc was WORN, I would be having absolutely opposite problems than I have now (NOT getting power to the wheels).

The pressure plate also looked fine and had a smooth surface, as did the flywheel. However, I didn't analyze the springs, but all the "fingers" were there and there was nothing broken off.

I also did not fully analyze the "throwout bearing". This term I'm using for the rotating bearing that is on the tip of the slave cylinder (and comes with the slave cylinder as a part).

But I'm so confused, because I looked through the hole in the bellhousing before I removed the tranny and had my gf push the clutch pedal. What I saw was the slave cylinder properly expanding, and pushing in the fingers of the PP.

So I guess some questions would be:

1. Was the slave cylinder expanding ENOUGH? I'm not experienced enough to answer this from what I saw through the bellhousing, but I would say it looked like enough. Plus I don't see any problem (leak) in the hydraulic system.

2. Was the PP's surface retracting when its spring fingers were being pushed in? I wouldn't see why not, but I guess I could explore this more tonight.

3. If the PP's clutch surface retracted from the back side of the clutch plate, then the clutch must have been stuck to the flywheel on its own. But the clutch plate just dropped right out as soon as I unbolted the PP.

4. Was the pilot bearing in the flywheel stuck on the trans input shaft? This is the only possible thing I could imagine went wrong. I didn't get a chance to inspect the pilot bearing, but the input shaft had no problem sliding out from the pilot bearing.

Could it be that I was having all these problems soon after I heated the clutch up, and everything broke free after a week of cooling down?
Maybe, but since I don't have my parking brake hooked up, I parked the truck in gear and while towing, and I was having trouble shifting out of that gear even when pushing in the clutch, which means the engine was putting resistance on the gears.

I'm really confused.
 






4x4xbrian.com

Well-Known Member
Joined
October 20, 2006
Messages
165
Reaction score
0
Location
Watkins Glen Ny
City, State
Watkins Glen Ny
Year, Model & Trim Level
01 ranger
Callsign
Btilden
1) probably if the slave cyl moves... its enough, the highest resistance is the initial push because the fingers have poor lever advantage in their rest position. Also its not leaking... and a internal leak in mast cyl would result with a falling pedal.

2) My guess is the fingers were not moving the pressure plate at least not all the way around. If their is a fault here you can likely feel it by pushing with you hand some portion may be weak.

3) If it were stuck that good you'd probably still be chiseling it of the flywheel!

4) Ditto for the pilot bearing.

Check the pp super close, its gotta be it.
 






BonesDT

Elite Explorer
Joined
July 12, 2002
Messages
1,078
Reaction score
8
City, State
Westchester, NY
Year, Model & Trim Level
Red '99 Sport SOHC 4x4
I haven't really done much since, but I noticed this morning microscopic cracks in the PP's surface. Interesting.

Well, I'm really not happy at all about spending the $300+ on this Centerforce clutch, since this was suppose to be money-saving-month (thanks Paragon), but it's definately something I've been having my eye on for a while.

This is my 3rd time pulling my own transmission, and no matter how much faster and better at it I get, it's still not fun, especially since its my daily driver. I remember the 1st time I did it, i got that special trans-adapter for my jack, drained the t-case and trans fluids, lined that jack-adapter up perfectly, slowly lowering, taking my time, all with 4 jack stands placed all around.

Now I see where 33" tires really start paying off. No more jacking up the truck. And I also quickly realized that the "bench-press-then-drop-on-gut" method of removing the t-case and tranny works much much better than trying to bust out your jacks. the 3rd time around I even found the advantage of NOT draining the two. plus, for those of you who diligently replace the t-case to trans-extension-housing gasket, don't. It's such a waste.
 






Fredness

Elite Explorer
Joined
June 2, 2000
Messages
611
Reaction score
24
City, State
Tejas!
Year, Model & Trim Level
'05 Sport Trac Adrenalin
How often do you change the clutch fluid? When you were riding the clutch it could have done something like the brakes do when they get hot, boiling the moisture in the line and causing a mojor loss of pressure? Just guessing...

Just becaus the clutch pedal is to the floor doesn't mean the clutch is disengaged. Sounds like the Pilot Bearing (any scaring on the input shaft?) or the hydraulics.
 






Top