Coolant Leak, even when off

[cofs52]

1997 V8 5.0L
189,000 miles

the truck was losing small amounts of coolant for awhile. I let it go, and just topped off the reservoir every once in awhile. the other day, i could smell that sweet, sweet odor of coolant. I was going uphill, and for the first time since owning the car (second owner, as of 2005) the thermostat gauge started to head towards the H. Didn't get all the way there, but it was accompanied with a loss of power and refusal to accelerate.

Parked at my destination, and looked under the truck. Looked like I ran over Slimer from Ghostbusters. Waited a while, and checked radiator. Pretty much bone dry. Filled it with more fluid.Got home, more fresh fluid everywhere. Took mental note and went to bed. Next morning, checked radiator and coolant levels - a little over halfway. Thats a lot of coolant loss from the raditor for only 16 miles of driving over 12 hours. Topped off.

Now, I just use water to fill the radiator because the coolant is pricey. Haven't had problems (gauge moving towards H, loss of power) since, but I have to refill radiator every 2 days with about a 1/2 gallon or more water.

i did notice that coolant continues to leak overnight/while the car is parked. Most of the pooling is just inside the driver side tire, pooling off the axle and other parts in that area. nothing from radiator (replaced a few years ago). nothing from thermostat area (replaced a few years ago). No visible coolant when inspecting under the hood, you have to lay under the vehicle. even then, though, it is hard to trace.

when you do lay under it, the point to which my eye follows the stream is visible in the attached picture. seems to be the bottom of the engine, front left corner (driver's view). that is where the coolant is. nothing higher up from there, nothing heading towards the passenger side from there, nothing towards the driver along the engine from there.

no weird sounds. runs and starts no problem as usual
(as usual = the last 89,000 miles since purchase)

thoughts, suggestions?

my intended course of action: 1) this excellent forum, 2) pressure test, 3) upon diagnosis, repair with friend or send to shop.

 

[cofs52]

not sure how the pic got jacked to that angle, but to help with orientation, rotate that image mentally 180 degrees. that would be my view laying under the car, looking up at it.

 

[1998Exp]

Oil cooler or the hoses leading to it come to mind first. My late '98 doesn't have an oil cooler (deleted in the middle of that model year), so I can't tell you exactly, but there should be a lot of posts on this subject.
Other possibilities: 1) Timing cover cracked, warped, or has failed gasket (there are coolant passages in the top right and left corners). However, due to the engine being tilted, this kind of leak results in most of the coolant following the lip of the oil pan and dripping down at the back of the engine, so less likely.
2) Water pump.

It's very difficult to see much in that area, but look carefully, preferably with the pressure tester hooked up, and you will find the culprit. Good luck.

not sure how the pic got jacked to that angle, but to help with orientation, rotate that image mentally 180 degrees. that would be my view laying under the car, looking up at it.

 

[cofs52]

thanks for the input [MENTION=161574]1998Exp[/MENTION]

still tough to see much, but here is a better picture. with proper orientation.
took this laying under the truck.

things i saw in coolant topics:
- intake manifold (known to crack, but no coolant when looking under hood)
- head gasket (no white smoke, no sounds, have to check oil color in morning)
- heater core/valve (not leaking on passenger side)
- clamps/hoses with 190k
- water pump

 

[bill06447]

There are a couple small hoses to check, these go to the water pump. A hose is by far the most common cause of coolant loss.

Bill

 

[JimMadsen]

Since you leaked out while engine was off and the rad lost coolant while engine off, look for anything between the rad and the engine. Possibly the rad itself is leaking.

When you climb under the car, do you have a splash guard covering the bottom of the rad and the ac hoses? If yes, pull that and look for coolant pooling in there. Start the engine and crawl under neath, as engine warms up and increases internal pressure, a leak may be more visible.

 

[corkey]

my 99 ohv pushed the gasket that goes between the water pump and the block last year, it looked like it was coming from all over in the front,, cause the fan moves the coolant around with the air movement,, that made it tough to find,,,

 

[bobflood]

I have a '97 5.0 2WD with 285K miles. I had a very similar problem; turned out to be the timing cover gasket. There are two coolant passages at the top on the timing cover, one on each side; mine was leaking on the passenger side. The metal, and hence the gaskets, are very narrow there and leaks are common.

Repairing it requires removing the shroud, fan assembly, radiator, crankshaft pully and water pump. There are also four bolts up from the oil pan that go into the timing cover. You have to be very careful with the oil pan gasket, because you have to reuse it in place; the engine must be removed to remove the oil pan. All of the brackets for alternator, AC compressor, etc don't have to move. I also unbolted the power steering cooler to get it out of the way. There are lots of bolts (8 or 9 in the water pump; 6 in the timing cover itself; all different lenghts) and some will be rusted badly and might break. I replaced a number of those bolts. If your water pump has never been replaced, this is the time to install a new one.

I have access to a lift and air tools; it took a friend of mine and I about 1.5 days to do the job. We are both slow and meticulous. Hardest part of job was getting the fan assembly off and then the radiator back on (look for a Joe Dirt thread on radiator replacement - it was a lifesaver). Good luck.

 

[cofs52]

night has fallen, but thank you to everyone for the starting points and advice.

[MENTION=535]Bill[/MENTION], i was hoping initially and am still hoping it is as simple as really old hoses and clamps, or water pump. i am up at my cabin in VT for the summer, and don't have jacks and jackstands so a good diagnosis and look around has been a burden. guess that is an investment i will have to make for up here.

[MENTION=201252]JimMadsen[/MENTION], my splash cover got ripped off some time long ago, on a snowbank, somewhere in VT....radiator looks spotless up and down, though i'll admit i haven't done a thorough inspection. especially because even when most of the other splash, spill, run off dries, that spot in the pic is still wet...

[MENTION=144418]bobflood[/MENTION], not having access to the right buddy, air, or lift here in VT leads me to think I may be paying full price for this repair. i remember doing the radiator myself last time and that alone makes me not want to do this job! just got the '77 Sportster electrical problems solved, so at least I have her if I decide to disassemble the Ford. I really hope to drive this bad ***** to at least 222,222 miles. that is the goal.

[MENTION=76870]corkey[/MENTION], thanks for that extra tidbit. definitely have to take a deeper look at the water pump, its hoses and gasket.


noticed today i had my Max A/C on this whole time. I noticed today, because normally my heat or AC doesn't work at all (long other story, but one I am willing to live with) so i dont always look.

anyway, i turned it to Off, and while there is still some coolant loss, the amount was much less and the odor was much less.

 

[bobflood]

Where in VT?? I was born there and have lots of family up there, though have been living happily in the South for many years now. Family had a cabin on a small lake in Monkton (Addison County). Great area in summer and fall; not so much during the 7 months of winter!!

 

[cofs52]

I am in Woodford, Vermont. Southern Vermont, about 100 miles from Glastonbury, CT, the town I grew up in.

I live in the Green Mountain National Forest, and love all 5 seasons - summer, fall, winter, MUD and spring! Winter takes the cake - I teach snowboarding at Mount Snow as my main job. Then I piece stuff together in the spring/summer until the temps start to drop again...

I see Monkton up there off Route 7, just after Middlebury. About 2 hours from me.... Any plans to visit family this summer? Could use a hand on this job

 

[cofs52]

got a notice in the mail that the truck has a recall 09S09, Speed Control Deactivation Switch Fire.

so i figure when I bring it to the dealer to fix that, I will ask them to do ONLY a pressure test and quote me a price on the job to fix whatever that reveals.
then i will take the car and do it myself with a friend, and hopefully have the proper diagnosis.

 

[bobflood]

I am in Woodford, Vermont. Southern Vermont, about 100 miles from Glastonbury, CT, the town I grew up in.

I live in the Green Mountain National Forest, and love all 5 seasons - summer, fall, winter, MUD and spring! Winter takes the cake - I teach snowboarding at Mount Snow as my main job. Then I piece stuff together in the spring/summer until the temps start to drop again...

I see Monkton up there off Route 7, just after Middlebury. About 2 hours from me.... Any plans to visit family this summer? Could use a hand on this job

Just "Mapquested" Woodford - I have an aunt and cousins in Bennington/N. Bennington; my mom lived in N. Bennington for years so I was there quite regularly. Indeed, I may be up for some vacation in the fall, though I'm not sure that auto repair w/o a lift and air tools is how I want to spend my time!! Good luck.

 

[cofs52]

update:

when i took the truck in for recalls, i had them do a pressure test. this revealed a leak in the water pump, from the weep hole. the dealership quoted $320 to replace the water pump. not a bad price, so i brought the truck down to them for the job.

when i call to ask about it, the woman on the phone inquires if i could come down to the shop to talk. uh oh. i couldn't make it during business hours, so then a service manager got on the line.

apparently, the new water pump was installed, and during the reinstallation a water pump stud bolt broke. now, instead of a slow leak, the car is straight up dumping coolant.

they quoted me 4-5 hours of labor to remove the broken bolt. the service manager then said something about, depending how that extraction went the problem could be fixable or if more damage occurs, I could be looking at a valve cover/heads issue. he also said something about not being able to get the parts for such an old truck, outside of a scrap yard.

needless to say, with the truck worth about $1,500 only I told them to hold up wait a minute, and just stop. not worth $400 in labor to find out now i have a $1000+ job on my hands.

thoughts on where to go?

i'm thinking maybe just plug up the hole where this broken stud bolt is from and continue driving, if my friends and I cannot extract it ourselves. the car is at 190,000 miles and i just want her to run again.

[MENTION=144418]bobflood[/MENTION] - totally understand that! regardless, if you find yourself near Bennington in the fall, drop me a line and we can grab a beer in town.

 

[bobflood]

Sounds like they continued putting it back together after breaking WP bolt/stud?? That makes no sense to me.

You need to get a second opinion; something sounds fishy re the valve cover/head story. Bolts breaking ICW water pump replacement is not unusual; usually the next step is to continue on to remove the timing chain (TC) cover the pump mounts into (only six more bolts). Depending on which bolt has broken, and where that bolt broke off, will determine how big a problem you will have getting the broken piece out. Some of the water pump bolts stop at the TC cover; others go thru the TC cover into the block or head.

The TC cover is available from RockAuto, but it is unlikely that would need to be replaced. Rockauto also has a "water pump bolt" set - don't bother as there are only three or four bolts (the pump has nine bolts) and none of them work. I replaced a number of bolts; got then at a nut/bolt company here called Fastenall.

If I get to Bennington in October, I'll let you know. Would be interesting to met someone on this site face to face. Good luck.