Crapped another right bank timing cassette

[E.T.]

Aww yeah. Two days of fun ahead of me. And that's after the five day wait with no car for the part to come in the mail. To be fair it has been two years and 14,000 miles, including a few trips over various mountains since I pulled the engine and replaced both last time. Looks like the re-engineered tensioner for the left bank has held up well, though I haven't investigated the oil pan for obvious parts of that cassette just yet..

 

[donalds]

Take pictures please

 

[E.T.]

Step 1: Remove all the junk you don't see in this image..:

Step 2: find out that half the rear timing guide has snapped off and fallen into the cavity:

I'll document the whole engine removal / guide replacement process once the guides arrive- don't want to leave the engine out in the world in case the local meth-heads make off with it in the middle of the night..

 

[donalds]

 

[CDW6212R]

Aww yeah. Two days of fun ahead of me. And that's after the five day wait with no car for the part to come in the mail. To be fair it has been two years and 14,000 miles, including a few trips over various mountains since I pulled the engine and replaced both last time. Looks like the re-engineered tensioner for the left bank has held up well, though I haven't investigated the oil pan for obvious parts of that cassette just yet..

What brand of parts did you put in it the last time? I hope this time goes smoothly, and solves it for the next 10+ years.

 

[E.T.]

No idea what brand of parts. I think the tensioners which came were OEM , hence had the crappy springs in them. I ended up using the old rear one in the front with a screw in to increase the spring tension. Am almost certain the lack of tension in the rear unit is what's caused the problem, so am thinking I might put an identical screw in that one. I very much doubt it will solve the problem for the next 70,000 miles, though!

 

[CDW6212R]

There are now good manual tensioner choices, some members here have used them for years. They install like the OEM, except they have a tension adjustment made at the install. The OEM tensioners are the best made for hydraulic control, the cassettes are what isn't definitely known, but I think those are also.

 

[E.T.]

I know there are ones which were used on Polaris ATV engines which fit. Cheaper just to drill and tap a hole for a 25mm M6 socket head cap screw and seal it with silicone, though

 

[donalds]

I know there are ones which were used on Polaris ATV engines which fit. Cheaper just to drill and tap a hole for a 25mm M6 socket head cap screw and seal it with silicone, though

I posted a vid somewhere on the forums
A

He is the O.G.

 

[CDW6212R]

I would go with the Polaris tensioner, that won't leak and is made to last the life of the engine. I'd read about a bolt being put in, I see it's to go in the outside and push down in.

 

[CDW6212R]

I posted a vid somewhere on the forums
A

He is the O.G.

That Cober character is funny, I loved the eagle video though.

 

[E.T.]

I would go with the Polaris tensioner, that won't leak and is made to last the life of the engine. I'd read about a bolt being put in, I see it's to go in the outside and push down in.

I can definitely see your point- my engine has >270,000 miles on it though, so it's had a lot of its life go by already..

Here's what I ended up creating after watching that video. I think I posted it elsewhere:

 

[E.T.]

OK, so I finished the job and took a ton of photos.. took something like 36 hours straight with no sleep.. will post images and censored profanity laden commentary at some point soon!

 

[2000StreetRod]

I can definitely see your point- my engine has >270,000 miles on it though, so it's had a lot of its life go by already..

Here's what I ended up creating after watching that video. I think I posted it elsewhere:

View attachment 332127

Does the bolt push on the piston or the spring within the cylinder? A disadvantage of the stock configuration is inadequate spring pressure to keep the timing chain taught. This is why the chain rattles until oil pressure builds up and pushes the piston against the cassette guide. An advantage of spring and hydraulic tension vs mechanical fixed tension is the "shock absorber" relief to the cassette guide reducing its stress and potential breakage.

 

[CDW6212R]

Does the bolt push on the piston or the spring within the cylinder? A disadvantage of the stock configuration is inadequate spring pressure to keep the timing chain taught. This is why the chain rattles until oil pressure builds up and pushes the piston against the cassette guide. An advantage of spring and hydraulic tension vs mechanical fixed tension is the "shock absorber" relief to the cassette guide reducing its stress and potential breakage.

I believe the original idea was good, but they built in too much range of motion for the fluid portion. I think a version made with a mechanical adjustment, plus the hydraulic circuit, might be far better and not end up with huge slack over long mileage.

 

[donalds]

Does the bolt push on the piston or the spring within the cylinder? A disadvantage of the stock configuration is inadequate spring pressure to keep the timing chain taught. This is why the chain rattles until oil pressure builds up and pushes the piston against the cassette guide. An advantage of spring and hydraulic tension vs mechanical fixed tension is the "shock absorber" relief to the cassette guide reducing its stress and potential breakage.

I made a cutaway thread you may enjoy Ford Timing Chain Tensioner Cutaway

 

[CDW6212R]

I made a cutaway thread you may enjoy Ford Timing Chain Tensioner Cutaway

That's a great thread, seeing what's inside of the OEM tensioners helps to know how the system is supposed to work. I used to think the steel springs inside might be a wear item, weakening over time. I'd had a few used ones to feel and compare to new OEM tensioners. The used ones do have weaker springs, but I no longer think the spring is the main reason for problems. It seems more likely that the seals in the tensioners wear too much when they get some age, and the leaking bleeds off too much strength, the force on the cassettes.

 

[swshawaii]

@2000StreetRod

Sent TWO requests that were months apart to admin for Ford Timing Chain Tensioner Cutaway to be made a sticky with no reply's or success. Possible?

 

[2000StreetRod]

I made a cutaway thread you may enjoy Ford Timing Chain Tensioner Cutaway

I did enjoy that video. However, it raised questions. The check valve allows oil to flow from the side port into the cylinder which escapes thru the piston hole lubricating the contact with the cassette guide. The diameter of the piston hole is less than the diameter of the side port allowing pressure to build within the cylinder when the engine is running. Even if the seal leaks due to wear the normal path for oil to exit the tensioner is via the side port or the piston hole. Even if the spring has lost its strength, the only time the timing chain should rattle is when there is no or low oil pressure. I suspect with age the clearance between the diameter of the piston and the bore of the cylinder increases due to wear allowing oil pressure within the assembly to escape faster than what enters the assembly via the side port. When someone drills and taps a hole in the bolt head end of the tensioner does that destroy the check valve?

 

[donalds]

When someone drills and taps a hole in the bolt head end of the tensioner does that destroy the check valve?

Oh yea