Cut & Turn Project

[91ROKKRAWLER]

i also agree more with the Zimms method. it makes more since than the cut at the balljoint setup. i think thats more for 2wd vehicles that have no shafts that go between the two beams... oh yeah, btw....PICS!

 

[Shen2187]

I'll post PICS!! once I actually make some progress. Right now I can't get to where my beams are because my alternator decided to take a poop. Getting it tested in the morning, and hopefully have a replacement in by this afternoon. Even then it's still a matter of getting the 3/16 steel plate for patching the gaps. I would actually like to use heavier plate to make a skidplate for the bottom of the diff while I'm at it but that costs $$ which is going into the alternator now.

 

[Anime]

Most of the 4x4 beams that are cut on the spindle side of the pumpkin are for long travel rigs that are RWD, but use the 4WD beams for strength or looks.

If you cut it that way, you have to account for the amount that turns the diffy holes on the beam, or you'll wind up with the drivers side shaft pointing downward and the passenger side pointing upward. Most of the time this kind of cut is limited to extremely modded or fabricated from scratch beams, but it's certainly possible to cut and rotate the diff cover part of the beam as well.

Doing it on the other side keeps the alignment intact, the spring mounting angles the same, and all you really have to do is add enough material for strength and then buy or make extended radius arms.

 

[Shen2187]

Most of the 4x4 beams that are cut on the spindle side of the pumpkin are for long travel rigs that are RWD, but use the 4WD beams for strength or looks.

If you cut it that way, you have to account for the amount that turns the diffy holes on the beam, or you'll wind up with the drivers side shaft pointing downward and the passenger side pointing upward. Most of the time this kind of cut is limited to extremely modded or fabricated from scratch beams, but it's certainly possible to cut and rotate the diff cover part of the beam as well.

Doing it on the other side keeps the alignment intact, the spring mounting angles the same, and all you really have to do is add enough material for strength and then buy or make extended radius arms.

Yeah I actually found out about all of that stuff yesterday because my brother wants to do the same on his Full-Size Bronco. It seems to be much easier to cut the actual beam instead of the balljoint area. I mean, sure it would give more travel in the end, and it tucks the diff up out of the way a little better, but I'm not going for anything crazy. Just enough to get me where I want to go, and then some.

The radius arms are going to be extended and heim joints will be used. Would rather spend $60 on heims than $60 on RA bushings.

 

[black91EB]

subscribing, I've been thinking about this for a while, and I also have a spare set of beams.

 

[Shen2187]

Yeah I might be getting my hands on some 5/16" steel plate, should be strong enough.. Other than that not a whole lot going on.

 

[CopyKat]

This is a funny thread. Started off good, but it's just too funny now. Looks like you need to do more reading. look up a member named "lifeguard" I believe he did a cut and turn that was out of the ordinary. Worked out in the end.

There is no set degree or measurement to follow.

I was told the way to do it is to mount the beams with the coils you plan to use. Measure the coil height. Pull everything apart. cut the lower ball joint seat out. Mount up the beams. Block the beam at the coil location with the coil height you measured earlier. With 0° bushings move the ball joint seat out untill your at 90° to the floor.

That is the correct way to do it. Cutting the beam between the pivot and the pumpkin is just adding more fuel to the cut and turn fire. It Messes up the geometry even more than it is already.

As for the ball joint cut being 2wd only. That is so wrong. Look for info over at Dezertrangers. Cutting the beam like the Zimmermans is not the prefered method.

Heims are over rated. I've got 15-16" travel out of the front of mine and I just use the rubber bushings. They are only $25 for the set.

 

[Shen2187]

This is a funny thread. Started off good, but it's just too funny now. Looks like you need to do more reading. look up a member named "lifeguard" I believe he did a cut and turn that was out of the ordinary. Worked out in the end.

There is no set degree or measurement to follow.

I was told the way to do it is to mount the beams with the coils you plan to use. Measure the coil height. Pull everything apart. cut the lower ball joint seat out. Mount up the beams. Block the beam at the coil location with the coil height you measured earlier. With 0° bushings move the ball joint seat out untill your at 90° to the floor.

That is the correct way to do it. Cutting the beam between the pivot and the pumpkin is just adding more fuel to the cut and turn fire. It Messes up the geometry even more than it is already.

As for the ball joint cut being 2wd only. That is so wrong. Look for info over at Dezertrangers. Cutting the beam like the Zimmermans is not the prefered method.

Heims are over rated. I've got 15-16" travel out of the front of mine and I just use the rubber bushings. They are only $25 for the set.

1.) It's called learning. I knew very little of the involvement of doing this at the start.
2.) I've read his thread. He's posted here a couple times.
3.) I don't care what the "preferred" method is. I'll do it how I like.
4.) Most 2wd's do the balljoint cut.
5.) Heims will normally never need to be replaced.

I don't appreciate your attitude. Trying to force people into a decision shows that you are weak. Failure of your own self esteem. Lifeguard knew I was wrong at the beginning, instead he asked me why I thought what I did. Because of that I learned further. Just because I choose not to do it that way does not mean that the information I gathered from him was useless. It actually helped quite a bit. Perhaps you should take some notes, learn from others on the forum.

 

[CopyKat]

1.) It's called learning. I knew very little of the involvement of doing this at the start.
2.) I've read his thread. He's posted here a couple times.
3.) I don't care what the "preferred" method is. I'll do it how I like.
4.) Most 2wd's do the balljoint cut.
5.) Heims will normally never need to be replaced.

I don't appreciate your attitude. Trying to force people into a decision shows that you are weak. Failure of your own self esteem. Lifeguard knew I was wrong at the beginning, instead he asked me why I thought what I did. Because of that I learned further. Just because I choose not to do it that way does not mean that the information I gathered from him was useless. It actually helped quite a bit. Perhaps you should take some notes, learn from others on the forum.

Whatever deuche it's your truck. Some learn from reading, some from trial and error.

I find it funny that all the big names like Autofab and Camburg etc all cut the ball joint end. They are race proven and the 4x4 still functions. How can it be for 2wd guys only? Only D35 parts the 2wd guys use are the Knuckles out. Why keep the bulky 4x4 beam if your only running 2wd?

The way your planning to do your cut and turn I think is the RedNeck way to do it.

Your going to end up with horrible geometry and issues that are relevent with that kind of cut.

I'm past warning you about it, but warning future enthusiasts that may read this post trying to get correct information.:

 

[Shen2187]

Whatever deuche it's your truck. Some learn from reading, some from trial and error.

I find it funny that all the big names like Autofab and Camburg etc all cut the ball joint end. They are race proven and the 4x4 still functions. How can it be for 2wd guys only? Only D35 parts the 2wd guys use are the Knuckles out. Why keep the bulky 4x4 beam if your only running 2wd?

The way your planning to do your cut and turn I think is the RedNeck way to do it.

Your going to end up with horrible geometry and issues that are relevent with that kind of cut.

I'm past warning you about it, but warning future enthusiasts that may read this post trying to get correct information.:

Yeah, thanks but no thanks. Kindly piss off.

 

[Pollarican]

Chill out cry babies. Obviously both can and have been done so to each his own.

 

[Dannyboy]

Alright, everybody can relax the internet muscles or go play elsewhere.

Keep this on topic or it will be gone...and Shen, go ahead and change the 1st line of your signature, it's not appropriate for this forum.



Oh and +1 for relocated ball joints.

 

[Shen2187]

Alright, everybody can relax the internet muscles or go play elsewhere.

Keep this on topic or it will be gone...and Shen, go ahead and change the 1st line of your signature, it's not appropriate for this forum.



Oh and +1 for relocated ball joints.

There ya go chief. Just don't like having someone cramming their ideas down my throat. This thread will remain on topic.

 

[Anime]

The Autofab and Camburg trucks that have a cut and turned TTB at the ball joints have it mounted with no front driveshaft, whether it be a 4WD with no front driveshaft or a 2WD with a TTB setup for looks.

Their 4WDs with a front driveshaft use a custom fabricated extra wide set of beams that bears only a slight resemblance to the stock beams.


Sure, you can cut it at the ball joints and turn it, and get some more clearance under the pumpkin...BUT you have to turn the pumpkin part of the beam the same amount, either by welding the holes, re-drilling new ones, and modifying the beam around the pumpkin to fit it in level again, or just cutting and turning the pumpkin cover part of the beam back to level.

You also might want to level out the spring seats on the top of the beams if you're going to be using coils, or just have bowed out coil springs that are going to try to pop out of the top seats every chance they get. Sure, spring retainers help, and the bowed spring actually works in a very similar arc to the TTB, but it's so much nicer knowing a spring isn't trying to eject itself when you're driving like a nutball with a nice expensive long travel rig.

Sure, there are guys who have a cut-and-turn at the balljoint TTB setup who didn't account for anything else and are running front halfshafts at weird angles, bowed springs, and positive camber. There's also people running 4-5.5" lift springs on their TTB with no drop brackets, no extended radius arms, and positive camber out the wazoo.

People who know how to do it right just laugh and shake their head...and hope those other people don't hurt or kill anyone because of their ignorance.

 

[CopyKat]

The Autofab and Camburg trucks that have a cut and turned TTB at the ball joints have it mounted with no front driveshaft, whether it be a 4WD with no front driveshaft or a 2WD with a TTB setup for looks.

Their 4WDs with a front driveshaft use a custom fabricated extra wide set of beams that bears only a slight resemblance to the stock beams.


Sure, you can cut it at the ball joints and turn it, and get some more clearance under the pumpkin...BUT you have to turn the pumpkin part of the beam the same amount, either by welding the holes, re-drilling new ones, and modifying the beam around the pumpkin to fit it in level again, or just cutting and turning the pumpkin cover part of the beam back to level.

You also might want to level out the spring seats on the top of the beams if you're going to be using coils, or just have bowed out coil springs that are going to try to pop out of the top seats every chance they get. Sure, spring retainers help, and the bowed spring actually works in a very similar arc to the TTB, but it's so much nicer knowing a spring isn't trying to eject itself when you're driving like a nutball with a nice expensive long travel rig.

Sure, there are guys who have a cut-and-turn at the balljoint TTB setup who didn't account for anything else and are running front halfshafts at weird angles, bowed springs, and positive camber. There's also people running 4-5.5" lift springs on their TTB with no drop brackets, no extended radius arms, and positive camber out the wazoo.

People who know how to do it right just laugh and shake their head...and hope those other people don't hurt or kill anyone because of their ignorance.

That is Epic and needs to be saved for all time.

 

[sirhk100]

Hold on here... Shen... Where do you plan on cutting the beams? Inboard of the pumpkin or outboard? If outboard between the coil and pumpkin or between the spindle and the coil? And you're not going to move the lower bj?

Also, Shen weren't you the one that started this thread looking for advice on how to modify the beams? And then you blow up at someone giving an alternative method? Whoa... From just a nobodies reading perspective you come across pretty bad here.

And is Anime and a couple others suggesting that by moving the lower BJ this makes it so that people aren't running 4wd? And are you also saying that camburg and autofab's kits are not meant to run 4wd?

Anime, if you kick out the lower BJ why do you think the diff needs re-indexed? Just curious...

I just want to clarify some things I'm reading here.

I can only remember seeing 4WD beams used on a intentional 2wd truck once btw... I've seen countless beam ends used but only one entire beam.

 

[lifeguard379]

read this. http://broncoii.org/forum/index.php?topic=5849.30
you will notice copycat post in that thread to, and it will explain why i had to turn the diff. mostly because i didn't listen to him at first(didn't understand what he was saying about keeping the ball joint lined up). but he took time out of his day to do a little drawing. and it will help you understand allot.

 

[sirhk100]

The way copycat said to do it is the most straight foreward sure way easy way to do it. Figure out your ride height, cut the lower, position it where it needs to be to meet your alignment needs and button it up. Simple and straight foreward. Or you can rely on someone elses magical number and hope it works in your application.

 

[410Fortune]

We built some jigs, we built some beams, we realized we missed one dimension when constructing our jigs, you must think of the beam as a triangle from pivot to BOTH ball joints. Simply moving the pivot point upwards for lift will shorten your track width = a no no, so you must build in some increased width to your newly cut beam so you dont come up short.

We scrapped one set of beams and then we had our jigs correct and built 3 more sets.
I run 3" duff drop brackets at the pivot (actual 2" drop I believe)
I run a 3" cut and turn in the beam and a 2" extended track width per beam. I use a 6" skyjacker coil (for now) with an F-150 spring seat (another 1-1/2" for coil sag).
I have the stupidrunner steering along with Skyjacker radius arms (for now)

we had to build a custom outer axleshaft for the passenger side to make up for the new increased track width.
I bought a spicer dana 44 shaft BLANK, had it cut to length and splined for the dana 35 slip yoke, it works perfect.

Here are some spy pics to give you a simple idea of a simple jig that works very well

If I was to do it over again I would do a combo cut and turn in the beam on the pivot side and a ball joint turn to account for more lift, a bit more bump travel, a bit more ground clearance, and if you move the ball joints out the correct amount you can run dana 44 outer shafts and gain another 8" of track width. Now you are in the 20" wheel travel range with good radius arms.... it gets expensive real quick, its never enough..... swing set steering would be next, or a good clean simple inverted Y setup like Autofab uses

You may also consider a modified dana 44 TTB swap, this has alot of benefits right out of the box, if you can build the beams or just order them from Autofab LOL

dana 44 ttb
stronger ball joints
better wheel bearing spacing
stronger hubs
bigger brakes
and 19" of wheel travel ( cheating 8" of track width but who cares!)




4x4 IFS + long travel = $$$$$$$ no matter how you swing it, I went on the cheap and with a big learning curve, my front end runs locked 35's and has about 12" of useable wheel travel (maybe 14 on a good day, still too much camber/toe change for my taste) it works well for me but I want more... of course

 

[Maniak]

I've found pics of the cut on the Pivot side of the pig, and cut between the ball joints and the pig. But, I haven't been able to find a pic of the cut at the lower ball joint only..


Anyone have pics (before plating etc) of the lower ball joint only cut?

~Mark