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"Dead" Buggy

imp

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'04 Ex 4.0 Flex, 4 DTCs have come, and gone, first was P-2106, Throttle Actuator Control Forced Limited Power. Went away each time engine shut off. Came back next ~ 2-5 miles driven.

Today, it's showing P-2104, P-2112, will not erase, engine barely idles, no throttle response at all, no rpm increase with throttle.

One code is TAC Stuck Closed. Had wife operate gas pedal with ign. on, throttle plate opens and closes normally. I watched it happen!

Please, any suggestions? If these are "Permanent" DTCs, that was not supposed to be imposed until 2009, my search said. Getting rid of Permanent DTCs is an emissions legal issue.

Anyone know if a replacement PCM gets rid of them? Thanks an awful lot! imp
 
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Harpua216

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did you ever update your PCM? maybe the perm dtc's were included?
 
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imp

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did you ever update your PCM? maybe the perm dtc's were included?

No, the PCM has never been touched. However, article I found last night stated permanent DTCs were being mandated by the Fed in 2009; mine is a 2004, and I doubt, but can't be sure of course, car makers would have gone to such extremes on their own, no reason to, costs money.

There are even legal organizations now specifically aiming at fighting for removal of Federal legislation relating to this. imp
 
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Harpua216

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i doubt it too, and the newest PCM updates for our modules was in 2008 anyway.
 
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apenland01

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I'm guessing most, if not all, of the 3rd gens don't have the permanent DTC deal from the factory. Reason being, if you go to get an emissions test and you have recently reset the PCM, they will send you away saying it can't be read. If you go out and drive it another 50 miles or so, it will have enough history the emissions machine will read it. If it had permanent codes, the machine would just read it right away.....
 
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imp

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I'm guessing most, if not all, of the 3rd gens don't have the permanent DTC deal from the factory. Reason being, if you go to get an emissions test and you have recently reset the PCM, they will send you away saying it can't be read. If you go out and drive it another 50 miles or so, it will have enough history the emissions machine will read it. If it had permanent codes, the machine would just read it right away.....

I've re-thought this situation, trying to sleep last night. It dawned on me that, disconnecting battery, then reading codes, they come up "pending", then switching off ignition and re-reading them, they come up "confirmed".

So, I think the codes are being generated during the initial turn-on, prove-out process. Plus, last try I got two really conflicting codes: TAC Throttle Stuck Open, and TAC Throttle Stuck Closed! Real interesting. Next, I'll search for TSBs.

Appreciate the helpful comments! imp
 
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Harpua216

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I've re-thought this situation, trying to sleep last night. It dawned on me that, disconnecting battery, then reading codes, they come up "pending", then switching off ignition and re-reading them, they come up "confirmed".

So, I think the codes are being generated during the initial turn-on, prove-out process. Plus, last try I got two really conflicting codes: TAC Throttle Stuck Open, and TAC Throttle Stuck Closed! Real interesting. Next, I'll search for TSBs.

Appreciate the helpful comments! imp


perhaps during pre-ignition tests it senses something wrong with voltage or maybe a short and the module is saying there is a problem on the way in and the way out?
 
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imp

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perhaps during pre-ignition tests it senses something wrong with voltage or maybe a short and the module is saying there is a problem on the way in and the way out?

Interesting thought! The deeper I dig, the higher up the top of the hole I'm in looks! Maybe I will never climb out!

As this trouble started, only once, I got a B-1342 code, "ECU Defective". Looking at the step-by-step in Ford Shop Manual, of course having no fancy diagnostic machine, under B-1342 it lists 5 or 6 test steps, listing the defective ECU as being PCM, Tire Pressure Monitor, ABS Module, etc., so it's saying the PCM itself can throw a code that IT is defective.

Guesswork. I know the Dealer will squeeze a couple grand out of this one, if I have to resort to that. I am ordering a new PCM today, gambling, hundred-fifty bucks. imp
 
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Harpua216

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B codes are usually all pre ignition codes dealing with start up PATS or anti theft as well as many other KOEOs?

Are you sure there isnt a short in the fuel system? maybe tripping up the test since thats the first test ( i think, cant remember) in the chain?
 
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Harpua216

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on second thought.. i had this code when my ABS light was on. it was a sliced ABS sensor wire.

Maybe check your ABS connections. i cant remember did you say the ABS light came on?

have you been working on suspension or the wheels? master cylinder? battery?

maybe you knocked a line?
 
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imp

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on second thought.. i had this code when my ABS light was on. it was a sliced ABS sensor wire.

Maybe check your ABS connections. i cant remember did you say the ABS light came on?

have you been working on suspension or the wheels? master cylinder? battery?

maybe you knocked a line?

All good thoughts, but no, have not worked on anything since this all started some weeks ago. Began as ABS light came on after driving about 5 miles, then brake (parking brake) light, later 4X4 HIGH flashes 8 times, then stops and goes out, finally the wrench illuminated. Car drove normally, even though DTC P-2106 was detected, "TAC Forced Reduced Power" (Throttle Actuator Control).

Shut down engine, ignition on, all lamps prove out, nothing stays on, until 5 miles down the road, process repeated. Day after day. I started erasing codes, disconnecting battery, same process followed. One day, a new code: B-1342 "ECU Failure", came up just once, when gone, never repeated. But, which Electronic Control Unit? Ford calls ABS Module, Tire Pressure Monitor Module, Security Module, all of them referred to as "ECUs".

I suspect the ABS light is used as a scare tactic, used for other faults besides actual ABS trouble. There never was an ABS-related DTC, like Wheel Speed Sensor. I could be wrong. OTOH, what connection could there possibly be to 4X4 HIGH?

Never experienced anything of what I've heard over and over about Limp Home Strategy, car ran completely normally. Then, a few days ago, fortunately at home, started engine, immediate very poor, slow idle, no initial speed-up upon starting, gas pedal does absolutely nothing. New DTCs. TAC Forced Idle Speed, TAC Throttle Stuck Closed, TAC Throttle Stuck Open, all at one time! Mind boggling.

I had my wife get in the car, turn on ignition, I removed air intake hose to Throttle Body, watched throttle plate move as she pressed gas pedal, tried to hold it from moving with my finger, that baby has lots of force! Certainly was not stuck open or closed.

Many hours of researching, I found this:


"Recall for Defective Ford Throttle Body Could Come From Petition

"the problem was diagnosed as a failed throttle body, with trouble codes P2111 and P2112 present in the onboard computer system, indicating the electronic throttle actuator control system was stuck open and closed, respectively"

From: https://www.ncconsumer.org/news-art...-investigation-into-ford-escape-vehicles.html

But, why the hell the total shut-down of the vehicle now, is taxing my patience. Makes no sense. Thanks for taking the time to read all of this! imp
 
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Harpua216

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went back and checked my code it was 1352, which is key in circuit failure.

i am not sure why it would act like that but isnt 4X4 flashing usually a sign of something wrong with it or something wrong with the transfer case? most of the info out there on 1342 is that it sucks they go bad and you need a new one, none really say the car wasnt functioning or functioning improperly.

Do you have a volt meter? can you test for load through the ECU? is that even possible?
 
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imp

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went back and checked my code it was 1352, which is key in circuit failure.

i am not sure why it would act like that but isnt 4X4 flashing usually a sign of something wrong with it or something wrong with the transfer case? most of the info out there on 1342 is that it sucks they go bad and you need a new one, none really say the car wasnt functioning or functioning improperly.

Do you have a volt meter? can you test for load through the ECU? is that even possible?
P-1352 is Ignition Coil "A" Primary Circuit Malfunction. I think usually a mis-firing problem alerts the driver along with the CEL.

Yes I have voltmeters. In my case, the engine starts, idles crappy, DTC says forced idle, throttle does nothing. So, fuel and spark are there, no issue. The cause of the forced idle DTC is my headache. Until I find the cause, I'm stuck.

The Dealers' diagnostic machines plug in to the car's data port, and simulate every sensor's input to all the modules present, including the PCM, like the car was being driven. It then checks the output responses of the modules, looking for errors. Lacking such a machine, Dealers would be scratching their heads, just as I am! imp
 
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Joe in NY

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There is one ECU which performs many many functions... There is an ABS module, 4X4 module, security module, BCM (body control module) etc... There is one ECU, Engine Control Unit
 
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imp

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There is one ECU which performs many many functions... There is an ABS module, 4X4 module, security module, BCM (body control module) etc... There is one ECU, Engine Control Unit

Okay, Joe, but what point are you making? I don't understand. Am I using incorrect nomenclature? imp
 
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Joe in NY

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"One day, a new code: B-1342 "ECU Failure", came up just once, when gone, never repeated. But, which Electronic Control Unit? Ford calls ABS Module, Tire Pressure Monitor Module, Security Module, all of them referred to as "ECUs"."

This what I was referring to. There is only one ECU, not many. Engine Control Unit. Also known as PCM, Powertrain Control Module.
 
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imp

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"One day, a new code: B-1342 "ECU Failure", came up just once, when gone, never repeated. But, which Electronic Control Unit? Ford calls ABS Module, Tire Pressure Monitor Module, Security Module, all of them referred to as "ECUs"."

This what I was referring to. There is only one ECU, not many. Engine Control Unit. Also known as PCM, Powertrain Control Module.

Joe, the Ford Shop Manual in diagnoses, calls ALL the Modules "ECU". Unless I'm misunderstanding. Look at the chart, B-1342, appears a number of times, saying ECU is defective, then calls for replacement of PCM, based on more testing, then replace ABS, etc.

img48910.jpg


img49010.jpg
 
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