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Different type of misfire 5.0 2001 Explorer

kendrake6969

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Hello, My misfire is acting different than any other one I have checked on this forum. When I start it cold the engine shakes really bad in park, when I shift into gear and put a load on it the shaking is much less. when idling at a stop light there is just a little shaking but when I give it gas the engine has a very noticeable shake until it is up to about 30 mph then it seems to run ok and has normal power. If I put it in park when warm it shakes real bad again. I can hear pinging or unevenness in the right exhaust at this time. It has 136000 miles on it, had the plugs and wires replaced after the miss started, no CEL on, and the on board economy shows the same 10.1 miles to the gallon it has always shown. It has had the misfire 3 to 4 weeks now and seems to be getting worse, I don't see any abnormal white smoke or coolant smell from the exhaust. I'm really surprised with all the shaking that it hasn't tripped the CEL. I could use some help to determin the most logical order to perform diagnostics, other wise it's $140 to the Ford dealer to diagnose it.
Thank You Very Much for your Time.
 



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kendrake6969

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YEAH Thanks so much for the help. Nice fourm.
 






Mbrooks420

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Sometimes things get lost in the forum list. Could have just bumped it the next day, and I’m certain you’d have gotten a response.
 






1998Exp

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YEAH Thanks so much for the help. Nice fourm.
No need to be upset. Sometimes nobody knows the answer your question - especially when it's a tough one like yours.
 






kendrake6969

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Sometimes things get lost in the forum list. Could have just bumped it the next day, and I’m certain you’d have gotten a response.
I'm sorry but I don't know what "bumped it the next day" means.
 






kendrake6969

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Update: The Ford dealer won't even look at it, they say it is too old.
 






Mbrooks420

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Bumping something on a forum is posting a new reply to bring it to the top of the unread posts list.
 






koda2000

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I don't recall ever seeing/reading your post. When you post and don't get a response a "bump" means that you bring your post back to the top of the list by adding a second posting to your thread, typically saying "bump". On a busy day it's easy for a thread to get moved off the 1st page of the forum. Personally, I NEVER read beyond the 1st page unless I'm looking for something.

If it were my vehicle, the first thing I'd do is remove the plugs and do a compression test. This would show or eliminate the possibility of a mechanical problem (valves, pistons). If that proves okay (around 160+ PSI in all cylinders with no more that a 10% difference between cylinders) then you problem may be electrical or fuel related. Have you checked to make sure that the plug wires are installed in the correct firing order? When you remove the spark plugs to do the compression test, keep them in order and examine them. The coloring will tell you a lot about what might be going on.

If it's not the valves, pistons, spark plugs or wires, it's probably a fuel injector that's not working. 136,000 miles is nothing for a Ford 5.0L V8 engine. My guess is that your problem is probably something simple.

I don't know what kind of traffic you drive in but 10 MPG is horrible. All my 5.0's get between 14 to 17 around town and 20'ish (sometimes more) highway. Sounds like you've only got 7 cylinders firing.
 






Centaurus5.0

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Hello, My misfire is acting different than any other one I have checked on this forum. When I start it cold the engine shakes really bad in park, when I shift into gear and put a load on it the shaking is much less. when idling at a stop light there is just a little shaking but when I give it gas the engine has a very noticeable shake until it is up to about 30 mph then it seems to run ok and has normal power. If I put it in park when warm it shakes real bad again. I can hear pinging or unevenness in the right exhaust at this time. It has 136000 miles on it, had the plugs and wires replaced after the miss started, no CEL on, and the on board economy shows the same 10.1 miles to the gallon it has always shown. It has had the misfire 3 to 4 weeks now and seems to be getting worse, I don't see any abnormal white smoke or coolant smell from the exhaust. I'm really surprised with all the shaking that it hasn't tripped the CEL. I could use some help to determin the most logical order to perform diagnostics, other wise it's $140 to the Ford dealer to diagnose it.
Thank You Very Much for your Time.

If the wires are good and not crossed, grab a set of used coil packs from the junk yard or ebay for $40 or craigslist part out and swap em in. If that doesn't change anything id then say find a reputable shop to diagnose it.
 






CDW6212R

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Ditto. Besides diagnosing things, it's also time to replace the front O2 sensors, fuel filter, plugs etc, anything not done recently. It usually ends up being one of those with an older vehicle.
 






koda2000

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Ditto. Besides diagnosing things, it's also time to replace the front O2 sensors, fuel filter, plugs etc, anything not done recently. It usually ends up being one of those with an older vehicle.

OP - Good advice, but diagnosis you misfire before spending money on parts. I absolutely hate throwing parts at a problem without knowing whats wrong. Depending on what you find, the coil might be a good idea.

Also, scan for ODB II codes, even though you say your CEL isn't on. Does your CEL light come on during the bulb check?
 






CDW6212R

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I agree on the coil packs, I've had one die, and it threw just a misfire 0301 code. The PCM doesn't catch everything, just most things.
 






Turdle

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Heck, this might be caused by a little corrosion where the coil packs ground to the bracket. You might check this.

Also, did you use motorcraft spark plugs? Wires?

also, as asked above, verify the check engine light comes on with key on.
 






Centaurus5.0

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If the missing just started happening one day, and it was still there after the plugs and wires were changed the only other ignition components are the coils and cam sensor. CPS usually don't go bad on the later models but is easy to remove the sensor cap and inspect. The one on my 1996 was completely gone but amazingly still ran "fine". Extreme heat can burn up coil packs and seeing that the OP is from Las Vegas coil packs would be the next suspect, even though it has low miles. In my experience when coil packs go bad the engine runs like wires are crossed and both times it's happened there were no codes.

So if the plugs and wires are new (motorcraft) and the cam position sensor isn't blown out then all there is left is the coil packs. What else could a scanner tell you it could be? If its not coil packs, then the op has something other than ignition problems.

I agree it would be a good time for fuel filter and the pcv and mam cleaned. New o2's and reman'd injectors if your feeling spunky.
 






crunchie_frog

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download FORSCAN and see if you can get some more information. It will show your actual O2 readings, fuel trims, and all of your sensors and it can plot several of these together and you can see live what your sensors are seeing. Also, just because the plugs and wires were replaced does not mean this was done correctly and still are not the problem. Also, see Turdle's note... checking for corrosion on the coil packs and checking to be sure your CEL comes on when you turn the ignition key to on.
 






koda2000

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If the missing just started happening one day, and it was still there after the plugs and wires were changed the only other ignition components are the coils and cam sensor. CPS usually don't go bad on the later models but is easy to remove the sensor cap and inspect. The one on my 1996 was completely gone but amazingly still ran "fine". Extreme heat can burn up coil packs and seeing that the OP is from Las Vegas coil packs would be the next suspect, even though it has low miles. In my experience when coil packs go bad the engine runs like wires are crossed and both times it's happened there were no codes.

So if the plugs and wires are new (motorcraft) and the cam position sensor isn't blown out then all there is left is the coil packs. What else could a scanner tell you it could be? If its not coil packs, then the op has something other than ignition problems.

I agree it would be a good time for fuel filter and the pcv and mam cleaned. New o2's and reman'd injectors if your feeling spunky.

Maybe you meant to say crank position sensor? The cam position sensor has nothing to do with ignition. Crank position sensors typically tend to either work or they don't, so more likely coil related if spark problem.
 






koda2000

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download FORSCAN and see if you can get some more information. It will show your actual O2 readings, fuel trims, and all of your sensors and it can plot several of these together and you can see live what your sensors are seeing. Also, just because the plugs and wires were replaced does not mean this was done correctly and still are not the problem. Also, see Turdle's note... checking for corrosion on the coil packs and checking to be sure your CEL comes on when you turn the ignition key to on.

Would you recommend the ELM327 for use with FORSCAN?
 






Centaurus5.0

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Maybe you meant to say crank position sensor? The cam position sensor has nothing to do with ignition. Crank position sensors typically tend to either work or they don't, so more likely coil related if spark problem.

Your right. The CMP sensor (or CPS??) would be more fuel and not ignition related. But it does effect timing, which can make and engine misfire and is easy to check. If this were a OBD1 5.0L, the distributor would have everything to do with ignition (or timing) and nothing to do with fuel (timing).
 






crunchie_frog

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Would you recommend the ELM327 for use with FORSCAN?

If the ELM327 is what connects the laptop to the OBDII connection, then yes. I got mine off ebay and it was a cheap Chinese one and I had to get them to send me another one to get it to work. Also, I had to get the correct driver for it but I was finally able to get it to work. It can be good for troubleshooting or I take snap shots of the sensor inputs, values and calculations (like fuel trim) and you can see how things change over time or how things are different (or are the same) on similar engines/models. You can even do a complete extra key(s) programming ( not a clone).
 



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koda2000

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Is there anything that allows you to connect a smart phone to the ODB II port, or is it that you use a laptop for FORSCAN?

To-date (8 years and 6 Expl's) I haven't needed anything more than my small ODB II scanner to figure out CEL's and all my vehicles have always run well, but it would be nice to be able to see more data and program my own keys. My '01 ST only came with one key. I purchased another blank, but have never had it programmed, which is something I need to do. Damn truck never runs long enough w/out breaking down for me to consider it a priority.
 






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