Dog issues- | Ford Explorer - Ford Ranger Forums - Serious Explorations
  • Register Today It's free!

  • Holiday Special! - 2 for 1 Elite Explorer sale!

    Right now you can purchase an Elite Explorer membership for $20 and receive a two year membership!
    If you have an existing Elite membership contact me by PM and I will upgrade your account manually.

    Click Here to start your membership and get rid of the ads!

Dog issues-

Turdle

Lowrider
Staff member
Moderator
Elite Explorer
Joined
June 16, 2003
Messages
30,445
Reaction score
2,206
City, State
Humboldt, KS
Year, Model & Trim Level
2000 Mounty
Well, I am just about as bummed as I can get. I try not to think about it-but I have to.

We have two terrier type dogs-
Natty-a mixed terrier we rescued from a ditch during an ice storm.
Nigel- Jack Russel (parson Russel whatever) terrier which I picked from the litter.
Both are just about 7.5 years old. They have been very great companions, and as watch dogs they are about the most alert I have seen.

Under normal circumstances they play well with children-but herein lies the problem

Natty -the dog I trusted to never do anything like this-was laying on the sofa when Jacan, my 3 year old grandson went to hug her-
She growled and snapped at him!:eek:
This left a small purplish bruise on his cheek. I think it was more of a "tooth bump" than an actual bite-
About 20 minutes later he did the same thing-and she snapped again. This time nothing happened from the ordeal. But I was watching.

Then, again he tried hugging her about 15 minutes later and she snapped at him bumping his lip into a tooth.

Ok
3 strikes--you're out.

A dog should never-EVER snap at a child. I don't care if the child grabs a handful of peanuts-the dog should merely give ground and that is it!!!!

In this case she was clearly defending her territory.

I can't bear the thought of putting them down, and I know it is like turning my back on a best friend to find a new home for them.
However-I have been warned.

These dogs have no health issues, other than needing heartworm medicine-and summer allergy shots. I am purchasing a new product today for them which takes care of all of the bad guys-including fleas and ticks-( worms heartworms etc)

They are full of energy-
Nigel will climb a tree for you-or clean out a ditch whistle. He loves holes. He'll also shred your junk mail for you.

Natty pretty much tries to get there first-even when she doesn't know where "there" is.

I will make the commitment to pay all vet bills and food expenses.

They need a good home,with a fenced yard,and, without the risk of small children.
They must go as a pair. They are definitely bonded for life.

I give my word, around larger kids they never wear out-and will play all day long.

Oh yeah-
They think they are people, so they are used to sleeping up our bed, and taking up most of it.

If a guest comes for an overnight visit-Nigel will sleep with them.

Since this site is filled with such warm and loving people-this is my first choice for placement.

Anybody? Thes dogs are way too good to be put down, but I have been warned. I no longer can trust them around my grandchildren.


This hurts:(
 



Join the Elite Explorers for $20 each year.
Elite Explorer members see no advertisements, no banner ads, no double underlined links,.
Add an avatar, upload photo attachments, and more!
.





nssj2

Well-Known Member
Joined
February 10, 2007
Messages
947
Reaction score
1
im sorry to hear, its always tough. sound like great dogs minus this incident. our old german shep, who wouldnt hurt a fly, did the same thing one time. she was just under the weather, unfortunately can't recall what. after she felt better, never happened again. take em in for a check up, and keep your fingers crossed!
 






sodjer6

Well-Known Member
Joined
August 16, 2002
Messages
481
Reaction score
2
City, State
Lincoln, NE
Year, Model & Trim Level
'96 Sport/'04 XLT
Maybe when the little ones come over the furry ones can get placed in a room with a gate or door closed, outside or in a kennel? My grandparents used to have a terrier mix that absolutely hated little kids. Until we got older and she wouldn't growl/snap at us she got locked in the bedroom while we were over.
 






techieman33

Explorer Addict
Joined
January 29, 2005
Messages
7,982
Reaction score
8
City, State
Topeka, KS
Year, Model & Trim Level
00 V8 Mountaineer
I'm so sorry Jon, they are great dogs, I can attest to that, seeing as how I shared a bed with them. I agree with sodger6 though why not just keep them outside or in a bedroom when the grandkids are over. that's what we always had to do with our last lab, she was great with the 4 of us, but didn't like anyone else. I'm just glad that the lab we have now is good with my cousins kids, they can do anything they want to her and she just wants to keep licking them. One of them even took a nap on top of her, and she just laid there for at least an hour until he woke back up.
 






m4dc0w

Well-Known Member
Joined
September 16, 2006
Messages
669
Reaction score
3
City, State
Edmonton, AB, Canada
Year, Model & Trim Level
Explorer 97XL
Jon,

As a longtime dog owner/lover and trainer, you are right it is a territorial issue. The reason the dog snapped at your grandchild was because he thinks he the alpha male in the house.

As you said, they think they are human, and not dogs. Examples of this is when they are on the sofa and beds, especially when visitors are present.

The reason for the snapping was that the child is lower than him in the pecking order. When he approached for the hug he got snapped at, because the dog was in a higher more dominant position (physically, as I assume you grandkid was on the ground).

In the past we found that if you keep clothing or something with the childrens scent around the house the dog will adjust slightly to the presence of the smells.

The pen idea is good, but it will also cause resentment to the animals as they will relate the children to being locked up.

How did you reprimand the dog for his actions? that is also a key issue.
 






Mbrooks420

High Voltage.
Elite Explorer
Joined
February 2, 2002
Messages
13,380
Reaction score
3,993
Year, Model & Trim Level
1998 Mountaineer AWD
I feel bad that you will have to part with your dogs, but commend you for accepting the fact, and aren't waiting until it's too late. Far too many people downplay, or ignore, the warning dogs give their owners.
 






Brett F.

Well-Known Member
Joined
November 17, 2004
Messages
302
Reaction score
0
City, State
Upstate SC
Year, Model & Trim Level
'93 4x4
Abby, I still miss her unbelievingly, was a chow lab mix. She was a great dog. She was incredibly soft with all the kids in my neighborhood that were my kids age. I was watching the little girl next door while dad went to get mom some medicine one time and I was letting her play on our swing-set. She was about 3 at the time and when she tried to hug Abby she got snapped at. Thank God she didn't get bit. I scolded Abby and I could tell she knew she had done wrong but from then on all smaller children were told she would bite and they stayed away from her. Abby had already let the little girl pet her and rub her tummy but the hug was too close and personal.

I told my neighbor about the incident even though there were no marks on her at all just in case she said something like Abby bit her. He was ok with it but then went and bought her a swing-set of her own so she wouldn't want to come over on ours.

I would agree that instead of relocating the dogs to maybe try removing them from the area the kids will be in until the kids are older.

Sorry you're faced with this situation. Good luck on your decision.
 






Albino 94LTD

Recovering from Moab 2016
Joined
June 24, 2003
Messages
3,895
Reaction score
100
City, State
Newcastle Wa
Year, Model & Trim Level
White 94 Limited
Callsign
KG7PKQ
Pack Leader

Research Cesar Millan's methods. The dogs need to know the grandchild is also a pack leader and not to be messed with.

Give it a try before you put them out.
 






Blee1099

Evil Asian
Moderator Emeritus
EF Vendor
Joined
March 3, 2002
Messages
13,891
Reaction score
41
City, State
Elkridge, MD
Year, Model & Trim Level
04 4Runner, 22 Silverado
Research Cesar Millan's methods. The dogs need to know the grandchild is also a pack leader and not to be messed with.

Give it a try before you put them out.

I can see Jon making that noise that Cesar makes.. lol
 






Turdle

Lowrider
Staff member
Moderator
Elite Explorer
Joined
June 16, 2003
Messages
30,445
Reaction score
2,206
City, State
Humboldt, KS
Year, Model & Trim Level
2000 Mounty
Well
While picking Powder up from the vet I discussed the issue. She also suggested a time out room, or kennel.

This seems to sugar coat the issue-but I guess we will work with it.

tssssss
 






Mbrooks420

High Voltage.
Elite Explorer
Joined
February 2, 2002
Messages
13,380
Reaction score
3,993
Year, Model & Trim Level
1998 Mountaineer AWD
A young child's face is not the thing you want to use to test out a dog training technique.
 






CDW6212R

Hauls the mail.
Elite Explorer
Joined
June 17, 2004
Messages
23,533
Reaction score
4,038
City, State
Knoxville, TN
Year, Model & Trim Level
98 Limited AWD
Research Cesar Millan's methods. The dogs need to know the grandchild is also a pack leader and not to be messed with.

Give it a try before you put them out.

I'm sorry to hear of this issue as well. I agree, and unless the animals can learn that they are way below children, the answers aren't good for them. Best of luck,
 






Sams01XplrSprt

Southern Cali Explorer
Joined
November 14, 2004
Messages
14,167
Reaction score
3
City, State
Newport Beach California & Bay Area California
Year, Model & Trim Level
2001 Sport (sold)
that sux jon
 






Burns

Elite Explorer
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
October 20, 2004
Messages
8,993
Reaction score
25
City, State
Pulaski, TN
Year, Model & Trim Level
1991 Explorer/2002 F-250
Well
While picking Powder up from the vet I discussed the issue. She also suggested a time out room, or kennel.

This seems to sugar coat the issue-but I guess we will work with it.

tssssss

I really think the best option is to put them outside or in one romm when the little ones are over. I dont think just getting rid of them is the best idea. This way you can keep the best of both worlds. It would truely be very hard to get rid of to life friends
 






unclemeat

Explorer Addict
Joined
October 20, 2002
Messages
3,077
Reaction score
4
City, State
Richmond, VA
Year, Model & Trim Level
91 sport
I agree with the Ceasar Millan thing. It is all about dog behavior, and how humans precieve it. Dogs need "Rules, boundaries and limitations" you are their pack leader. Dogs are very predictable if you know what to look for. The tail and ears are a dead giveaway for aggressive behavior.
 






gijoecam

Village Idiot
Elite Explorer
Joined
May 31, 1999
Messages
8,339
Reaction score
13
City, State
Trenton, MI
Year, Model & Trim Level
98 ExSport, '00 F-150
I'm in the middle of Cesar's second book, Be the Pack Leader. His first one was Cesar's Way. Check them out from the local library, or order them from Amazon, B. Dalton, Borders, or Waldenbooks. It's worth every penny! Believe it or not, the 'Dog Whisperer's' techniques do, in fact, work. If you think about the psychology of the event from a dog's perspective, all his techniques seem so simple and straightforward that it amazes me. They're also quite effective.

If you can, make it a point to watch the Dog Whisperer on Animal Planet (National Geographic?) or rent some of his videos from NetFlix or the local video store or library... They really do make peerfect sense.

As mentioned, it's likely a dominance thing for your dog. The dog sees himself as dominant over your grandson. (In all likelihood, he sees himself as dominant over you as well, but that'll become more evident as you become more familiar with Cesar's philosophies.) What was your response when the dog nipped? Basically the dog learned with the first nip that if he turns and 'nips' your son goes away. This was reinforced with the second and third occurrences. You, as the pack leader you should be, should have responded immediately, asserting your dominance over the dog, and demonstrating to the dog that this type of behavior is unacceptable in your pack and that there are consequences for unacceptable behavior. (In Cesars words, there should be rules, boundaries, and consequences) It would have used the 'claw hand' to simulate the bite of a dominant dog to redirect the behavior, NOT to punish the dog.

Good lord... I dodn't realize I had gleaned so much from his shows and books... That being said, I have found myself being MUCH more comfortable around dogs in the last couple of years. My in-laws have a 115 lb Rottweiler that's very undisciplined, and it shows... But he's learned what he can and can't do with me, and what behavior is acceptable and isn't when I'm around... he's a different dog with me there because he recognizes me as the dominant one... Not so with my in-laws, and it's because of the way they treat him... like a furry human.

Seriously, read the books, or consult with a local dog psychologist (NOT a dog trainer). Check out Cesar's web site to see if he has one he can recommend in your area... It's worth every penny. They'll bring new life into your world, trust me!!
 






Dan Whitaker

One fast putty tat
Elite Explorer
Joined
December 24, 2001
Messages
7,095
Reaction score
39
City, State
Raytown MO (Kansas City suburb)
Year, Model & Trim Level
No Mounty no more.
Jon,

you can't rid of them. Who is Powder going to chase and boss around besides you?
 






Explorer#2

Explorer Addict
Joined
March 28, 2005
Messages
1,593
Reaction score
2
City, State
Birmingham Alabama,
Year, Model & Trim Level
1998 XLT
Cesar's methods work. We as a fraternity did it with our new house dog. It took him about a week but we set down "Rules, boundaries and limitations". Mars is about the happiest dog I have ever seen. And he knows his place in the pack. He also knows what good behavior for a dog is. If he steps out of line he gets reprimanded quickly, and in the same manner every time.

What we would have done to Mars is gotten him away from where your grand child was and gotten him to lay down and roll over on his back with all his paws up in the air. He is a Great Dane so this isnt always the easiest thing but we do it, and stood over him not saying anything just standing with him under my legs. We wouldnt have said anything to him or looked at him just stood there calmly and being dominate. Because he is on his back he is being submissive and im being dominate or the “pack leader” by standing over him and putting him into the position he is in, he is learning that I think the action that he did was wrong and he shouldn’t do it again. Since im being dominate or the “pack leader” he listens to my actions. If we need to reinforce anything we take our hands and do just what Caser does. You make your hand into a mouth and grab the dog on the neck, this is just how female dogs move their puppies around so its fine for the dog. Now we don’t pick Mars up by his neck, but he is a full grown dog and weighs over 100 lbs so it wouldn’t be good for him. It is interesting because when we do this he almost goes limp and is very easy to control and put on the ground.

We did this for about a week after we go him when ever he did something wrong and we haven’t had a problem with him since. He even remembers which couches he can get on and which ones he can’t. Some of the guys’ dont want him to sit on their couches in their rooms and he can be left in the room over night and he still doesnt get up on the couch. We did this with other actions not just couches. By doing this you are setting yourself as the dominate one or the "pack leader". The dog knows what you think is ok and what you think is bad.

Since your dogs have gotten to sleep in the bed with you and be “people” they think they are not just members of the pack but also leaders of the pack. This is not the right place for a dog to be. They are meant to be followers when they are in a pack with people. He, the dog, was protecting what he though was his and since he feels that he is one of the dominate ones in the house hold then there was nothing to stop him. If you change your actions and make the dog remember that his is not the pack leader im sure very sure this action will stop. This seems more like a once in a blue moon type outburst but if you did try to make changes like the ones we did with our dog it does take a while and its not easy. You have to be on your toes all the time, but it pays off in the end. Mars is a great dog that runs to meet us as we get to the fraternity house and he is always super happy. I think most of this is do to the fact that he does have “Rules, boundaries and limitations".
 






Black92LX

Well-Known Member
Joined
April 3, 2008
Messages
296
Reaction score
0
Year, Model & Trim Level
2003 Explorer XLT
Just out of curiosity what did you do to reprimand the dog?

As stated your dog feels it's alpha to the child. You are the alpha and the dog needs to know that you are alpha no matter what and it is not to act in that fashion unless you allow it.

The best thing to do would would be grab the dog put it on it's back and yell in it's face until the dog went into a submissive state.

I had terrible dominance issues with my German Shepherd when she because about 9 months old. She started stepping her boundaries on me and seeing what I would do. It took about 5 back rolls in the course of a month for her to remember her place in my house.
Then when she was about 2 I brought home a pitbull puppy that I had rescued and she wanted to play the dominance game with the pup. In this situation the pup was too little to take dominance so me being the pack leader had to show her that they were on the same level but I was in control.
She went after the pup maybe 3 times the first week but each time I gave her a back roll and good yelling right in her face. And the behavior stopped and they are best friends and inseparable now.
10-31-07_1546.jpg


A lot of folks seem to find this as harsh treatment. But it is exactly how it would be handled in the wild and needs to be handled in the home.
The dog needs to understand that it is never acceptable to snap or growl at a child.
And if a stern back roll and yelling will do it. It needs to be done.

I wouldn't be at the point of getting rid of the dogs just yet. There is still the opportunity for change but do not let the child and dog be alone together. If the dog shows any sign any sign at all it needs to be put on it's back instantly and held there until it goes submissive. If it wants to squirm let it squirm until it goes submissive. But that dog needs to know you are the boss and you will not allow it to behave in that fashion.
 



Join the Elite Explorers for $20 each year.
Elite Explorer members see no advertisements, no banner ads, no double underlined links,.
Add an avatar, upload photo attachments, and more!
.





rizzjc

Scubajoe - Radio Mod
Staff member
Moderator
Elite Explorer
Joined
July 13, 2005
Messages
4,067
Reaction score
22
Location
NC
City, State
Garner, NC
Year, Model & Trim Level
2019 F150
Callsign
N1LVN
Well
While picking Powder up from the vet I discussed the issue. She also suggested a time out room, or kennel.

This seems to sugar coat the issue-but I guess we will work with it.

tssssss

Punish, and crate. And ALSO teach the grandkids not to mess with the dogs, especially if they are in their "spot". I always keep an eye on the dog with the kids, but she takes all the abuse they give her. But still, I warn the kids AND the dog.
 






Top