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Dreamr's 5.0 top end build up

410Fortune

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yup I know that story all too well
 


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dreamr

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hehe the list is getting smaller, today may be the day of first firing if my helper will hurry and get here.

- connect headers to h-Pipe
- fill oil
- pre lube valvetrain and secure valve covers
- Bolt down air intake assembly
- plug in the battery and start up
 








dreamr

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I'm kinda scared though:eek:

Keep your fingers crossed that I did everything right, and that a piston and valve don't have a collision.......

ohh yeah and that the fan and shroud don't meet up.....it's a bit tight with the new 3-core radiator
 




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I'm kinda scared though:eek:

Keep your fingers crossed that I did everything right, and that a piston and valve don't have a collision.......

ohh yeah and that the fan and shroud don't meet up.....it's a bit tight with the new 3-core radiator

:popcorn:
 




dreamr

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Well it did start....

After a bit of tuning it even ran fairly well :D
TPS @.98
Fpressure @ 40 PSI
Base timing @12
Idle at 950

ohh and i also added a air compressor line dryer to the pcv line. Figured why let all that oil back into the intake.

I ran it for the twenty minutes recommended with the idle set just under 2 k, shut it down, changed the oil and filter, then fired it back up. There appear to be no leaks.....

Now my concerns
Valvetrain noise. It scared the hell out of me when I first started the car, but once the oil pressure came back up it quieted down a lot. There is still a moderately significant chatter to it. Honestly I think I need to pop the valve covers after a drive or two and re-adjust the rockers. I want to drive it to work at least once to let the new parts kinda settle in. Then I can re-check head and intake torque when I adjust the valvetrain.

As to general runnability. Once I tuned it a bit as listed above it started to idle fair. It still has high and low spots in the cycle though. In addition it has a tendency to vary rpm slightly every minute or so.....In general it ran fairly good, but needs some more fine tuning. With the FPR at 38psi it seemed a bit better, and the exhaust was clear. at 40 psi I can see the exhaust, but it seems more responsive to the touch.

The cam ties into the above I think, but it does have a nice blubblubblub sound to it......:p:

Here are a few pictures after it was all back together.....

It still sits on tramps though waiting for me to do the final checks and a bit more tuning before driving.

30_done_1.jpg

32_done_3.jpg

31_done_2.jpg
 




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Good job. Do you have hydrolic lifters? We used to have it at idle and then back off the adjusting nut untill it ticks and then turn down untill it stops and then go 1/2 turn more on all rockers. I think you really need to check the rockers. IF your harmonic balancer is indexed 90 degrees you could just brlng number one up to TDC adjust and then turn crank 90 and go to next cylinder in firing order and repeat on next cylinder. Just a thought.
 




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Good job. Do you have hydrolic lifters? We used to have it at idle and then back off the adjusting nut untill it ticks and then turn down untill it stops and then go 1/2 turn more on all rockers. I think you really need to check the rockers. IF your harmonic balancer is indexed 90 degrees you could just brlng number one up to TDC adjust and then turn crank 90 and go to next cylinder in firing order and repeat on next cylinder. Just a thought.

Ya beat me to it...was gonna post the EXACT same thing. Whenever I did a hydraulic lifter motor, I usually fired up the car with the valve covers off (don't rev it or you're in for a helluva mess!!!) and then did the same adjustment. If you're doing solid lifters, it's gonna be a little noisy when cold.
 




410Fortune

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also rockers need to be re-torqued after 500 miles or so, so get used to this proceedure :) I have had my valve covers off 3 times now and I am going to be doing a 4th here pretty soon because I am finally getting new lifters and pushrods (I used the factory ones when I did the cam and rollers = no beuno)

Nice work!! looks fantatic
 




dreamr

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Ohh come on I really want to drive it though :D

You are all right however I really do need to pull the valve covers. When I adjusted them originally I spun the pushrod while tightening the rocker nut untill the friction on the pushrod increased (zero lash?) then tightened them down a half a turn.

Too bad I have to take the upper intake, and everything connected to it, off to remove the valve covers :rolleyes:
I guess I take it off, then put it back on and start the car with the valve covers off as y'all recommended. I kinda want to do it that way so I can see where all the noise is really coming from.......
 




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I have often thought of a valve cover with a removable panel, for just this reason.
I think it could be made easy enough huh?
 




dreamr

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I have often thought of a valve cover with a removable panel, for just this reason.
I think it could be made easy enough huh?

Now that there is a good idea. Develop one and you'll make some cash in the EFI performance market!!!




So my other question is in regard to vacuum. I can't find any specs in my manual for some reason (i hate chiltons sometimes)

To test I hooked in to the vacuum line that runs from the intake over to power all the smog/egr stuff. What reading should I be getting here?
 




dreamr

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OK...the valve covers are back off, but I can't think of how to access the valvetrain after re-assembly w/out covers. The intake is in my way still for a few valves......... and with it running how much mess am I looking at? The start up idle will be 1200-1300 rpm and settle down to 950

I considered just tightening them all about 1/4 to 1/2 turn, as I set them all a 1/2 turn past zero lash originally...... or do I really need to go back through the process of TDC for each cylinder? I have next to no access under there at this point to turn the engine over with any real accuracy...........

As a note 410 I am using stud mount rockers vs the pedestal mount. there is no torque setting unless you count the 8 lbs for the top nut lock pin.
 




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Now that there is a good idea. Develop one and you'll make some cash in the EFI performance market!!!




So my other question is in regard to vacuum. I can't find any specs in my manual for some reason (i hate chiltons sometimes)

QUOTE]

IMO, I don't think you'll get the same vacume reading in a shop manual. This would be due to that more aggresive cam profile. Depending on how much split overlap you have will have a determining factor on your vacume. On your more performance cams this is when the intake and exhaust valves are both of their seats at near the end of the exhaust stroke. This helps in scavanging the clyinders for more fresh air by letting the momentum of the exhaust pulses pull air thru the partially opened intake as the piston reaches and gets at TDC. So now you are starting to get a free charge of fresh air before the piston even starts it's downward intake stroke. But this also happens to lower your vacume and your lower rpm throttle responce. So don't be surprised if it your vacume is lower. And this is where that distictive lope sound comes from at your idle. But at higher rpms is when the split overlap design really comes into play.

Does the ticking you hear sound like the ticking of all 16 rockers or just a couple and is it on both cylinder banks?
 




dreamr

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rookieshooter said:
IMO, I don't think you'll get the same vacume reading in a shop manual.
This would be due to that more aggresive cam profile................

I had wondered if that would be the case. The intake vacuum is very steady but sits pretty low down around 15 or a bit less.

rookieshooter said:
Does the ticking you hear sound like the ticking of all 16 rockers or just a couple and is it on both cylinder banks?

At first it seemed like it was coming from everywhere with the driver side being the loudest particularly the front. I opened everything up and went through the process of setting pre-load again. I tried to do it with the car running, but that just got really smokey as oil hit the headers. I then went through starting at TDC 1 and set the preload on those rockers, turned the crank 90 degrees and set the rockers on the next cytlinder in firing order. Some of them seemed very loose before I touched them. To re-adjust them I played with the pushrod while turning the nut untill the pushrod had no play, turned the nut 3/4 turn set the pin and bumped the nut another 1/8 turn to lock it in good. She seems quite a bit quieter now, but I think there may be one or two quiet chatters in there. Sounds kinda like it used to or like my tuck now.






It is still running a bit rough. I re-set the base timing at 14 degrees which seemed to help a bit. Something odd here. There is a shunt you have to pull on the dizzy to set base timing. Typically it is set at say 10 degrees...plug the shunt in and it jumps up to like 32 or whatever the eec advances it to. Mine only jumped up maybe 5-8 degrees, any theories here.

Fuel pressure. Wow this can make a big difference.......When I set it yesterday I had read that the pressure at idle was 39psi. I thought that this meant with the vacuum line connected so I set it at 40 psi. My exhaust seemed a bit thick as well as slightly rich smelling. I then read on a mustang forum that I was supposed to set the pressure with the vacuum line disconnected. I did and the slight surge/shudder went away as well as the exhaust clearing up to mostly invisible considering the temp was kinda cold outside. When I plugged the vacuum line back in the Fuel pressure drops to 35ish......hmm 5 psi of fuel makes a big difference.....

Idle well I keep looking for the sweet spot where she will purrrrr, but it is just not there. 1100 rpm is nice, but I know from experience with this car that high idle and AOD don't mix well in traffic. 950 is the next compromise. It is choppier, but steady. Below that it gets quite rough.

I ran the diagnostic checks...KOER....KOEO.....Continous Cycle Memory (CCM)..I would have run a cylinder balance test, but she is kind of a loud lover and draws the neighbors attention :D

KOEO I eventually cleared a couple pesky codes

CCM stayed clear of codes

KOER I had a few here, but can't get rid of these 4

12 - idle rpm to high
13 - idle rpm to low
44 - Thermactor system inoperable
94 - air diverter circuit malfunction

for 12 and 13 I am confused! What does it want me to do? I go below 900 rpm and I lose code 12 but keep 13. I go up to 1100rpm and I lose code 13 but keep 12 :confused:

44 I have had forever and thought that the new smog pump, vacuum lines and etc,,, would cure this. Seems though that the new appearance of the code 94 would point me in the direction to cure them both however.


Last issue .......... it howls. We noticed this noise yesterday, but it was hiding under the chatter. Now that the chatter has quieted down a lot it is much more apparent. It is a high picted squeeling sound. Not like vacuum whistle though I suppose that is possible. As I traced the sound it seemed most apparent in the area of the throttle body/egr spacer. In fact it kinda reminded me of when the Explorer IAC first started going out.....an kinda like when my camshaft position sensor started acting up in the x. The IAC is new though and the latter is not possible in the way it was with the X.

I have gone around trying the old propane trick, but can't seem to find a vacuum leak anywhere. Is it possible that the sound I am hearing is the air from the pcv traveling through my little air compressor filter thingy and then the sound being magnified by the upper intake? I have read where these can restrict airflow of the pcv system enough to cause idle issues and may whistle, but this seems excessive!
 




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Dreamer, I think you said somewhere else that you have on of those stethescopes to find the source ot noise. IF you don't please get one or use the old screwdriver trick and place the blade of it all over the engine and your ear up against the handle. If fact about any metal thingy would work. It really works well on the valve covers to hear which rocker is loose or any other noise location. You can even put it on any fileter element or dryer to locate some noise.

One other thing, are you sure that the timing chain is put on so that both marks are dead drop straight acrooss from each other. You may be a tooth too much one way or the other and the marks are just not quit inline. I've known people to use a framing square to make sure. This is where degreeing in the cam with a degreeing wheel is so important but often overlooked. It will cheack that the valves are openng and closing so many degrees before or after TDC.
 




dreamr

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I will deffinately be going through it again later today....with a listening tool thingy to try and help find the squeal as well as isolate the final rocker. I will also pull the fan belt to eliminate accessories from the mix. One guy on the mustang forums said he had a similar noise start after a H/C/I swap. turned out to be his distributor bearing..........hmmm.

I hate to take the upper intake and valve covers back off, but I also want to stop all the chatter. In addition I noticed a minor leak that has developed in the rear driver side head. Likely the bolts loosened up a little after going from very cold aluminium to fully warmed up car a few times.......

As for the timing set I am sure that it went on striaght.
 




dreamr

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dreamr said:
Last issue .......... it howls. In fact it kinda reminded me of when the Explorer IAC first started going out.....

Lol sometimes I should listen to my first instincts rather than getting excited. The homegrown stethescope indicated that the whistle is at it's loudest when I touch the IAC. The TB itself carries the sound as well but the IAC is louder. Folks on other forums doing a similar swap have run into the sound....they all believe that it's because there TB is sucking so much air it whistles. There may be some truth in this, but I also wonder if they have yet to hear an IAC howl like it can in an Explorer :p:

idle is still rough, but seems a lot smoother just really grumbly. Perhaps I just need to get used to the cam lope.

One new issue to add to the list... I popped my throttle from 950 idle up to 2500......it zipped right up, dropped normally to about 1600 and hung there for about 20 seconds or more. then dropped to normal idle. WHY?
 




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