Driving with a coolant leak from the timing cover

[98FordLove]

I decided to cancel my order from Rock Auto for the Moog Premiums. Even though they are the premium line and reviews online are good, it's just something like suspension from what I read online is that Explorers tend to be harder on suspension than every other truck so warranty is important to me in case I have to replace them. And I know that Rock Auto sucks for warranty because they have no 1800 number, no live operators, plus I couldn't imagine the process of having to ship bad parts back to them and then go through the process of RMA'ing it. Plus me having to pay shipping on my dime just to send it back. Then there's always the chance of wrong parts being sent back. And if this is the case, and I have to get my mech to rip it out and put it back in, he will not appreciate my truck sitting on his property taking up a spot for possibly up to 2 weeks. He would park it on the street and bylaw here is that no car or truck can be parked on any public street for more than 48 hours or you get ticketed.

I had this happen with my mech with a previous car I had years ago. Was waiting for a part and it took longer and my car ended up being at his place for over a week. Because h'es busy and only has limited spots in front to leave cars, he parked it on the street and I wasn't able to pick it up within 48 hours, so it got ticketed and towed to the depot and I had to drive down and pay $900 just to get it out and then I got $200 back to scrap it. I was so beyond pissed about this. I can't have this happen again.

So with that being said, I will buy all the bj's locally from Napa and will get their premium line which is pretty much rebranded Moog or Spicer stuff and it comes with lifetime warranty. So if a ball joint goes bad in 3 years, I take the truck to my mech, he rips it out, I take the part to one of my local stores (which is literally 5mins from my mech shop) and I get a new one on the spot. So then my truck doesn't sit at my mechs shop for long at all and he would very much appreciate it as well.

Difference from buying from Rock Auto vs Napa locally is only $150cdn with the tax (I get 10% discount at Napa too). So that $150 is worth it for the warranty IMO. God forbid, I hope I don't have to ever use the warranty but if I do, at least it won't be a headache to deal with.

 

[C420sailor]

It’s always a roll of the dice.

I would want to know who makes the ball joint before I install it in my truck. A lifetime warranty is cool, but I’ve found that it can go one of two ways:

Either the part is of extremely high quality and it lasts forever OR the part is super cheap Chinese trash that they can warranty 4-5 times and still turn a profit.

If it’s the latter, you’re paying a couple hundred bucks labor each time it has to be replaced.

When you’re having someone else do the work, the goal is to minimize labor. As such, I would want to be certain that my mech is installing a high quality part. It’s been experience that sometimes NAPA sells good stuff, sometimes they sell junk.

 

[98FordLove]

It’s always a roll of the dice.

I would want to know who makes the ball joint before I install it in my truck. A lifetime warranty is cool, but I’ve found that it can go one of two ways:

Either the part is of extremely high quality and it lasts forever OR the part is super cheap Chinese trash that they can warranty 4-5 times and still turn a profit.

If it’s the latter, you’re paying a couple hundred bucks labor each time it has to be replaced.

When you’re having someone else do the work, the goal is to minimize labor. As such, I would want to be certain that my mech is installing a high quality part. It’s been experience that sometimes NAPA sells good stuff, sometimes they sell junk.

That is true, I agree. I picked up all the parts from Napa just now anyways so I can open it to possibly see where it was made. If it says China, I will refund them.

From what I read online yesterday (and I probably spent a bit too much time on it), many Moog parts are made in China now. I've read great reviews on their premium line but some have said that their Moogs had to be replaced in short periods of time. So I was hesitant on Moogs.

I want the best and want to minimize the chances of paying for labour to replace bad parts.

 

[CDW6212R]

I agree about using the best parts in most cases, for a resale soon vehicle, then be cheap. Moog is good, not the great they used to be, their customer service is zero(always has been(you have to go through sellers)). Most brands are cheap quality, but there are still a few good ones. Rock Auto sells most brands, and Mevotech which has a high end line that seems to do very well.

SKF sells the best hubs, if you ever need any for 95-01's. They have the only improved hub for these trucks. I have used a few Ford hubs, and at least two Timken, all have lasted 50k+ miles, none have wore out yet.

 

[98FordLove]

Okay I just called another Napa and spoke with the manager and he said that ALL Napa premium bj's are Mevotech premium top of the line. And yes made in China. So the parts sitting in my trunk right now are Mevotech made in China.

Not what I was wanting to hear. He said that he rarely sees returns on the bj's failing (hence why they offer a lifetime warranty on them) and he said that they used to be re-branded Moogs but they switched to Mevotech's 15 years ago for all their bj's.

I will need to read more on Mevotech but from the brief time I spent yesterday, people were saying they were sub-par. But then again that was the eco line, this is the top of the line Mevotech.

It looks like the lower ball joints I just picked up are Mevotechs XKT line which is the "overbuilt", well above OEM spec bj's.

Here is what I picked up.

Part - Mevotech

This is the page content

www.mevotech.com

Part - Mevotech

This is the page content

www.mevotech.com

 

[CDW6212R]

Okay I just called another Napa and spoke with the manager and he said that ALL Napa premium bj's are Mevotech premium top of the line. And yes made in China. So the parts sitting in my trunk right now are Mevotech made in China.

Not what I was wanting to hear. He said that he rarely sees returns on the bj's failing (hence why they offer a lifetime warranty on them) and he said that they used to be re-branded Moogs but they switched to Mevotech's 15 years ago for all their bj's.

I will need to read more on Mevotech but from the brief time I spent yesterday, people were saying they were sub-par. But then again that was the eco line, this is the top of the line Mevotech.

There are at least two levels they sell. I have their best UCA's on my latest 98, they are fine so far(hard usage for 27k miles in about a year). These are a pea green color, not black like other CA's, TTX is on a metal label on them, they were around $65 each from RA. These have replaceable BJ's, most don't.

 

[98FordLove]

There are at least two levels they sell. I have their best UCA's on my latest 98, they are fine so far(hard usage for 27k miles in about a year). These are a pea green color, not black like other CA's, TTX is on a metal label on them, they were around $65 each from RA. These have replaceable BJ's, most don't.

Thanks. From compared to the Mevotech site and Napa, it looks like you have the ultimate which mine are the overbuilt. Going by pricing on the Napa site, they have two grades for their premium lines (both have lifetime warranty) which surprises me, the overbuilt and the ultimate. Ultimates are more money.

I picked up the overbuilt. Wonder if this is good enough quality or not. It looks like Mevotech has 3 lines - economy, overbuilt and then ultimate. Do I return the arms and get the ones you have? Really considering it. The only thing is, when compared to the Mevotech site, it looks like my lower bj's are the ultimate (pea green in color) and the upper arms and bj are the overbuilt (black arms, blue bushings).

 

[CDW6212R]

I suggest keeping those uppers you have, the upper BJ's are not a high stress part, they usually take 10+ years to have any issue. The lower BJ is the main weak link.

 

[98FordLove]

I suggest keeping those uppers you have, the upper BJ's are not a high stress part, they usually take 10+ years to have any issue. The lower BJ is the main weak link.

Thanks. My head was spinning and I was about to return all the parts to buy from Rock Auto. I was worried that my upper ball joint would be much inferior.

I just did a comparison to Rock Auto for the exact parts I picked up this morning and with shipping, it works out to be $259. I paid $412 this morning from Napa. So $150 more.

So it basically comes down to if I want the local warranty. Only one hiccup with the warranty, since I don't do my own work if a ball joint was to fail, I would have to take the truck to my mech to remove it so I can bring it in. But he would have to do it outside and then the truck would have to sit at his shop until I drive over to the store to get a new one. Not sure if this is even a realistic scenario. I mean sure for other parts it's fine but not suspension since you can't even move the truck when the fauly bj is out of it. Whoever I take it to, the point is, the truck will have to sit there until I can get the new one (though a 5min drive to the shop) is very handy and convenient.

Or

Order from Rock Auto and if a bj fails, I wouldn't even bother with warranty, I would rather just order another one online at my own cost and save the sanity (just not worth all the headache on a $35 part, what RA sells them for) and take it to my mech to replace it when I get it. No having to leave my truck anywhere and it seems more logical.

I guess it all comes down to how much faith I have in the brand. After hearing your feedback on Mevotech, I have more confidence in them.

 

[98FordLove]

Got the Forescan reader today.

Downloaded the Win 10 app.

Been wasting my time for the past 30mins trying to get this stupid ext license key to no avail. Like seriously? Look online and all I see are issues just to get the ext code. To pull damn codes and now I am dealing with this program just to get a license. Been registering on the forums like it asked me too and now the links don't work. Uhhh are you kidding me?! All this work to pull codes from this thing through a program?

I don't have the time for this garbage.

I give up. Sending this back, I can't take this anymore. Biggest waste of 30mins of my life.

This CEL will NEVER be diagnosed. Either that or I just leave it on and smash the gauge cluster.

 

[C420sailor]

Breathe. Take a step away. You’ll get it.

Forscan is the ****. Not as idiotproof as a cheap scanner, but way WAY more powerful. I need to get my hands on it...i keep putting it off.

I keep a cheapo reader in the truck.

You’re learning. Sometimes learning costs more in the short run, but almost always pays off long term. Persistence is key.

 

[98FordLove]

Breathe. Take a step away. You’ll get it.

Forscan is the ****. Not as idiotproof as a cheap scanner, but way WAY more powerful. I need to get my hands on it...i keep putting it off.

I keep a cheapo reader in the truck.

You’re learning. Sometimes learning costs more in the short run, but almost always pays off long term. Persistence is key.

Already packed it up to send back. Seriously I don't have the time to deal with that BS just to get it running. If you have to go through that nonsense just to get a program working then I will put my time to something that actually works.

I just opened up the other OBD2 scanner and what do you know it worked out of the box!

Got the same 3 codes I got before.

p0135
P0141
P0155

All o2 sensor heater circuits.

 

[98FordLove]

Here's the live data test.

Like I said this CEL will never be fixed.

 

[C420sailor]

You need to check those sensor values and trims in closed loop. When the truck is warming up, it’s in open loop (OL) Mode and not really referencing the sensors.

Honestly, checking the sensor wiring is pretty easy on these trucks. I believe the heater elements are ground switched, so they should be getting a constant +VDC with the key on. The PCM closes the grounds/negatives, causing the sensor to heat.

Each sensor has its own ground to the PCM, as a result...but they all share a common hot...and that is where I’d be looking if I had three heater codes. The odd of that hot wire being broken somewhere is way WAY better than the odds that all three new sensors are bad, or that all three PCM circuits are bad.

That said, try clearing the codes first and see what comes back. If they all come back again, I’d be all over that hot wire...

 

[98FordLove]

You need to check those sensor values and trims in closed loop. When the truck is warming up, it’s in open loop (OL) Mode and not really referencing the sensors.

Honestly, checking the sensor wiring is pretty easy on these trucks. I believe the heater elements are ground switched, so they should be getting a constant +VDC with the key on. The PCM closes the grounds/negatives, causing the sensor to heat.

Each sensor has its own ground to the PCM, as a result...but they all share a common hot...and that is where I’d be looking if I had three heater codes. The odd of that hot wire being broken somewhere is way WAY better than the odds that all three new sensors are bad, or that all three PCM circuits are bad.

That said, try clearing the codes first and see what comes back. If they all come back again, I’d be all over that hot wire...

Wiring is all good, had it checked. I have no clue where the sensor wiring is under the hood. Been trying to find a picture of chart of it but nothing exists.

Where is this hot wire you speak of? Is it red in color?

 

[C420sailor]

I’ll be honest...I don’t think whoever checked it did it right.

If the wiring is in fact good, either your PCM is shot or you won the lottery and bought three sensors with dead heaters. There are really no other possible causes here.

 

[CDW6212R]

The wires to the O2 sensors, one of those on each is the power wire, hot with the key on. Those run up to the main connector of the engine harness, all engine wires run to that connector, and from there to the bay harness, and through the firewall. Electrical diagrams in the EVTM shop manual show all of the connectors of the whole vehicle. That makes the EVTM reference pages very valuable for troubleshooting. Some versions of those are cheap on eBay for a model, hunt for that if you may need more help electrically, ongoing.

 

[98FordLove]

If I am lucky, this is the location of the PCM? What are the chances of it being dead? I just had it reflashed 3 days ago and it had a full working signal to the o2 sensors.

 

[donalds]

If I am lucky, this is the location of the PCM? What are the chances of it being dead? I just had it reflashed 3 days ago and it had a full working signal to the o2 sensors.

View attachment 328108

May have bent a pin in the harness
If so just carefully bend it back

 

[98FordLove]

Wires look fine to me. No cracks or broken wires.

Can't see the PCM being dead, how would the truck start?

I'm putting the truck up for sale right now. Really just not worth it at this point. If the PCM is dead then this is nothing but a parts truck.