Engine will not turn over, no dash lights, nothing. 06 Explorer XLS

[L_turn9]

Hi Gang,
This problem has happened 3 or 4 times. 3 out of 4 times were when my wife pulled into our driveway, turned it off and at that moment, the radio and dash lights, warning sounds, etc all stopped. This is not normal. All 4 times have happened when she turned the car off to park. I asked my mechanic and was told it may be the chip in the ignition key going bad. If she tries to re-start it, nothing happens, it's just like when she turned it off to park. There's no dash lights or warning sounds and the engine does not crank at all. Even the doors will not lock/unlock.
Later, it will start and drive like normal. Also, when it gets ready to fail, it starts running roughly. It doesn't turn off but the idle slows down.
The Key has a chip in it and I spoke to a local Lock Shop who said they charge $80 to supply a replacement key. Seems pretty steep to me and I have yet to hear from the dealer.
So far all the times this has happened have been when she was pulling into park here or at a store. Is this something that might happen while driving? I've worked on cars as a hobby for 40+ years and have never seen anything like this. Of course, I usually mess with older cars.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
LarryT
2006 Explorer XLS

 

[94Eddie]

I haven't heard of a chip in a key failing unless it was physically damaged. If you have two working keys you can easily program another after having it cut at a hardware store. I always make sure to have 3-4 keys so I don't have to pay to have one programed. I can buy blank keys off ebay for $5 each. If you have more than one key does this same happen with both? The locks should work whether a key is present or not which leads me to believe this is not a key related problem. Also, I don't see where a bad chip would make the engine run roughly. I think the problem lies elsewhere.

We had a 2003 Sable that started having electrical gremlins and it was a bad PCM. Some symptoms of a bad PCM are:

• Check Engine Light Turns On. An illuminated Check Engine Light is one possible symptom of a problem with the PCM. ...
• Engine Stalling or Misfiring. ...
• Engine Performance Issues. ...
• Car Not Starting. ...
• Poor Fuel Economy.

Others here can probably tell you how to troubleshoot this type of problem. I am not one of them.

 

[ThunderbirdSport]

Have you scanned for codes?

You'll need a good scanner, not the cheap one such as wal mart sells, for example.

If you take it to oreilly or autozone, they usually will let you scan in the parking lot without having to rent it.

I'd start there, unless you have already.


Another check would be the ignition switch itself. On older Fords these would start going bad and give all kinds of hell as you likely know. Might also be something to check into.

Good luck..let us know..

 

[L_turn9]

Hey ya'll,
Thanks for the suggestions! Haven't had the codes read yet but will do that today. Hopefully the reader will provide a log of the past 24-48 hours? re the key - the shop I use suggested the key and no the key has not been damaged while we have owned this Ford for about the last 2 years, but there's no way to know how a PO treated it. Unfortunately we only rec'd one key so that makes things a little more difficult. Since a 2nd key has been something we have wanted, maybe we'll do that & it will hopefully eliminate that as a possibility. Will try to get the codes pulled today - will let you know what it says. BTW, the same shop that suggested the key chip said when the chip in a key is a problem, the Security light in the dash will flash when the problem occurs. I need to check the OM to see what a security light looks light. I'm disabled and no longer drive so my memory of the warning lights is a little fuzzy. Unfortunately, my wife turns the key and goes. She doesn't remember a Security light but if it never stayed lit or flashed she probably wouldn't remember it. I need to start going with her when she runs errands so I can see exactly what's happening - and go to AutoZone to have the codes checked. Hopefully they will provide a printout of the code readout...
re the problems suggested when a PCM goes bad - that's another strange thing about this - it generally runs pretty good, maybe the idle is slightly rough, until she starts to turn it off, then the radio stops, the menu in the dash goes blank and if turned off, it will not restart. yeah, I need to be in the car so I can see what it is doing. She's concentrating on driving more than the dash.

Does the ECM/PCM reset after it sits a little?
Sorry - for the last 20 years we've driven diesels and they don't have the kinds of electronics that gas cars do, as you probably know. But I'll learn.

Thanks gang!! I'll post more as soon as I can get the codes read.

LarryT
06 Ford Explorer XLS 4.0L

 

[L_turn9]

We just returned from AutoZone - I called and they said, "Sure, bring it down & we'll test it." Well, not so easy. After waiting our turn, their 1st question was "Is the CEL on?" We said no and they said they cannot test it unless the CEL is on. Doesn't the ECM keep a log of problems? If kind of useless if not. Were they telling us right? Any ideas?

 

[ThunderbirdSport]

Yeah, there's a memory bank for stored codes. And there CAN be a code without a CEL.

side rant; sounds like that particular place just doesn't give much of a damn about customer service.

If you were local I'd scan it for you and see if there was anything conclusive.

 

[L_turn9]

I appreciate that T'Bird, Yeah, we're pretty far apart ;-)
ok, things are getting weird. My wife had to go to Richmond today and we took a chance on it staying operable. She drove 40 mi RT and as she pulled into the driveway at home, the radio and dash menu went blank so she knew it would not start if she turned it off. Sure enuf, after she parked and shut it down she tried it and nothing happened. So she came in and I went out. I turned the key all the way over to the start position, heard a click and everything started working again. That's 3 or 4 times it happened as she was pulling into the driveway and once when she was at Walmart. I'm thinking there's something here (garage door clicker?) and at a place like Walmart that is causing the problem. Does that make any sense? Could a external transmitter interfere with the PATS device? Surely it's shielded from stuff like that? But the repetitious problem that appears when pulling into the driveway is just too suspicious to ignore. Agree?

re the Scanner at AutoZone. yeah, I need to see someone and maybe they will be more customer friendly shop...maybe my local INDY?

LarryT
06 Ford Explorer 4.0 XLT 149K
06 Mercedes E350

 

[ThunderbirdSport]

I'd definitely get a second (or third) wrencher to take a stab at it.

 

[L_turn9]

It just did it again - another 40+ mi Round trip with sops along the way, it works perfectly the whole time, then when pulling into the driveway, the dash lights die and radio stops, then when parked in driveway it will not start. Somethings happening when she turns to pull into driveway. Well, we need a extra key anyway, so I'll do that. if the problem continues I'll find someone to pull the codes and might have to look into a PCM/ECM.
Thanks for your comments -
LarryT

 

[94Eddie]

I ran across this video the other day when looking for information on tire pressure sensors. A phone charger was putting out radio interference that messed with the Tire Pressure Monitoring system in a car. I do agree that it mostly happening in your driveway could mean something. Maybe try parking down the street from your house at varying distances and see if this makes a difference. Remove all electronic devices from the vehicle like garage door remotes, chargers, bluetooth adapters, mobile phones etc. and see if it makes a difference. Your situation is why I hate dealing with electrical gremlins. I don't know enough about electronics to diagnose the fix in most circumstances. I usually have to rely on sites like this one and/or Googling the problem to get answers.

 

[L_turn9]

I learned another symptom today - actually it only happened Thurs once and twice Friday - my wife said she was unable to turn the key in the ign switch. This makes me think it might be the ignition switch like someone mentioned, a couple of attempts and all is normal again.

But I still cannot understand the "coincidence" of the car failing so many times as she pulled into the driveway?? I've watched her pull in - she keeps both hands on the wheel (10 & 2 like I taught her) and she's not playing with the radio or ign key. I have more searching to do...

LarryT
06 Explorer XLT 4.0L

 

[DiGiornoRisingCrust]

Hmm, maybe try to get a friend with a similar year Ford to pull into your driveway and see if they experience similar symptoms. This should let you know if you have a problem with just your Ex or if all Fords will suffer.

I’ve got 3 Fords in the driveway, and there was one night back in the summer where none of the key fobs would work on any of them, and my neighbor said that he couldn’t unlock his either. The problem vanished in the morning, so I have no clue what was going on.

 

[WaltZ]

Exact same thing happened to me. Totally dead after parking it (usually miles from home... of course). No CEL. No clicking when turning the key. Waited a while and then it started

We thought it was a bad battery, Bad Key, glitch in the security system, etc.

Ended up being a bad starter

 

[L_turn9]

Thanks - did the lights come on in the dash?

 

[L_turn9]

Thx again Waltz,that's kinda like mine. I was able to extract a little more info from my wife - the engine never shuts down. The Radio and display in the dash go dark. She has always been parking when it happened - 5 out 6 times it happened she was turning into out driveway, the 6th time she was at Walmart looking for a parking space. But the engine keeps running - but it idles rough at times, which may be an unrelated issue (likely spark plugs since I think these are the originals.), but the engine never dies. Then, once parked, she turns it off, and if she tries to restart she gets nothing - no engine cranking, no lights in the dash display, and no radio.

But I'll have the starter tested.

BTW, several times it was impossible to insert the key in the ignition. I still need to research the Ignition Switch.

Thx,
LarryT
06 Explorer XLT 4.0L

 

[toypaseo]

Look at your battery terminals and cables. Might not be your issue, but worth a look.

I had a problem where I would turn the key, and instantly dead. Shook the positive cable by the battery, and everything back to normal. I had some cheepo replacement terminals, and switched those to full brass ones.

 

[WaltZ]

Come to think of it (its been a few years), I believe I did have dash lights.

Since there was no CEL, I ended up taking it to the dealer and they traced the problem in no time

 

[L_turn9]

Thanks, it's on the road at the moment but I'll check it when it gets home. The fact that the symptom only popped up when turning into our driveway 5 out of 6 times it happened with time #6 in a Walmart parking lost while looking for a parking space. Very strange! Also, the engine kept running. Thanks again -

 

[ThunderbirdSport]

BTW, several times it was impossible to insert the key in the ignition. I still need to research the Ignition Switch.

Ding, ding...

I'd replace the lock cylinder...if it's not aligned enough sometimes to keep the key from physically being inserted into it..then yes, sir, you've got yourself a damned problem.

Fix that and I'd wager a cold beer your problem vanishes.


Quick question....your wife have a lot of keys on her keychain...or a bunch of heavy stuff, or anything like that?

(I keep the ign key on one ring by itself....my other keys, house, shop, trailer hitch key are on another ring along with my fob that are always with me. When I get out of my Ex, I hook the ign key to a carabiner on my belt loop with the other stuff. Been a habit since I had to replace the cylinder on my first car way way back in the day.)

Just a thought...

 

[boominXplorer]

A loose ground cable will cause the same symptoms