External timing tensioners on the 4.0

[Mitchs07explorer]

I’m looking for a few opinions on those who have changed out their external timing tensioners. I’m doing a full timing rebuild at the moment, I just got the heads back from the machine shop and am pretty close to putting everything back together. For a little back ground, I’ve had a startup rattle for the last 18 months. I changed out my external tensioners to see if that would make a difference, from what I could tell one of the original tensioners went bad. I used Cloyes tensioners to replace them as I was led to believe that’s the next best option next to motorcraft tensioners which I can’t find. Thing is I still had the startup rattle after I changed them so I assumed my timing guides and internal tensioners were going out. I blew my head gasket on the passenger side head so the engine had to come out anyway and of course at 170k I’m going to change my guides and tensioners regardless.

I pulled the engine and opened it up and to my surprise all of the guides and tensioners looked to be in good shape. When I knocked out the front cassette guide, it hit the garage floor and shattered so I didn’t get to see if it was coming apart. At the very least it was brittle but still looked intact. My new timing kit is a Cloyes and it comes with new tensioners which I’m planning on using but am afraid I’ll still end up with that minor start up rattle again. Has anyone else run into timing chain rattles due to poor quality tensioners and if so what tensioners did you end up going with?

 

[Fix4Dirt]

I’m looking for a few opinions on those who have changed out their external timing tensioners. I’m doing a full timing rebuild at the moment, I just got the heads back from the machine shop and am pretty close to putting everything back together. For a little back ground, I’ve had a startup rattle for the last 18 months. I changed out my external tensioners to see if that would make a difference, from what I could tell one of the original tensioners went bad. I used Cloyes tensioners to replace them as I was led to believe that’s the next best option next to motorcraft tensioners which I can’t find. Thing is I still had the startup rattle after I changed them so I assumed my timing guides and internal tensioners were going out. I blew my head gasket on the passenger side head so the engine had to come out anyway and of course at 170k I’m going to change my guides and tensioners regardless.

I pulled the engine and opened it up and to my surprise all of the guides and tensioners looked to be in good shape. When I knocked out the front cassette guide, it hit the garage floor and shattered so I didn’t get to see if it was coming apart. At the very least it was brittle but still looked intact. My new timing kit is a Cloyes and it comes with new tensioners which I’m planning on using but am afraid I’ll still end up with that minor start up rattle again. Has anyone else run into timing chain rattles due to poor quality tensioners and if so what tensioners did you end up going with?

usually if the tensioners are of poor quality, it causes chain slap at startup which leads to broken cassettes, especially as they become more brittle. @allmyEXes and @410Fortune use manual tensioners off a polaris iirc. bad tensioners usually lead t startup rattle, but not usually long term rattling when running, unless there is insufficient oil pressure, since when not pressurized the spring is used to provide tension, but oil pressure is used once the system is pressurized.

 

[Lee's Automotive]

I’m looking for a few opinions on those who have changed out their external timing tensioners. I’m doing a full timing rebuild at the moment, I just got the heads back from the machine shop and am pretty close to putting everything back together. For a little back ground, I’ve had a startup rattle for the last 18 months. I changed out my external tensioners to see if that would make a difference, from what I could tell one of the original tensioners went bad. I used Cloyes tensioners to replace them as I was led to believe that’s the next best option next to motorcraft tensioners which I can’t find. Thing is I still had the startup rattle after I changed them so I assumed my timing guides and internal tensioners were going out. I blew my head gasket on the passenger side head so the engine had to come out anyway and of course at 170k I’m going to change my guides and tensioners regardless.

I pulled the engine and opened it up and to my surprise all of the guides and tensioners looked to be in good shape. When I knocked out the front cassette guide, it hit the garage floor and shattered so I didn’t get to see if it was coming apart. At the very least it was brittle but still looked intact. My new timing kit is a Cloyes and it comes with new tensioners which I’m planning on using but am afraid I’ll still end up with that minor start up rattle again. Has anyone else run into timing chain rattles due to poor quality tensioners and if so what tensioners did you end up going with?

Honestly i wouldn't use cloyes at all i would stick with borg warner or Ford only as recently there has been a huge failure with cloyes parts

 

[Lee's Automotive]

usually if the tensioners are of poor quality, it causes chain slap at startup which leads to broken cassettes, especially as they become more brittle. @allmyEXes and @410Fortune use manual tensioners off a polaris iirc. bad tensioners usually lead t startup rattle, but not usually long term rattling when running, unless there is insufficient oil pressure, since when not pressurized the spring is used to provide tension, but oil pressure is used once the system is pressurized.

Yep, it's the tensioners that cause the guides to break because the chain slaps the crap out of it and shatters them

 

[Mitchs07explorer]

@Fix4Dirt @Lee's Automotive
Thanks guys, I was wondering about this after reading a couple different threads. I’ll look for the Borg Warner tensioners or maybe call the dealer to see if I can get motorcraft tensioners through one of them. @Lee's Automotive does the failure rate of the Cloyes parts also go for the guides and internal tensioners as well? I bought the full timing kit several months back so I can’t return it at this point. I spent like $300 for set so I hate to just throw it away but I also don’t want to have to pull this engine again. Do you think I should source the other timing components from elsewhere? If I’m not mistaken the box the parts came is says made in Germany. I know the 4.0 SOHC is a German made engine so i thought that the parts being made there was a good thing at least better than made in China. I’m certainly going to source other tensioners but what about the rest of the kit?

 

[Mitchs07explorer]

usually if the tensioners are of poor quality, it causes chain slap at startup which leads to broken cassettes, especially as they become more brittle. @allmyEXes and @410Fortune use manual tensioners off a polaris iirc. bad tensioners usually lead t startup rattle, but not usually long term rattling when running, unless there is insufficient oil pressure, since when not pressurized the spring is used to provide tension, but oil pressure is used once the system is pressurized.

The rattle was very brief so that makes a lot of sense. It’s like the tensioners drained out way to much so there was very little tension when it was started up. I never had any rattling once it was running or started later in the day. Only if it sat overnight…

 

[Lee's Automotive]

@Fix4Dirt @Lee's Automotive
Thanks guys, I was wondering about this after reading a couple different threads. I’ll look for the Borg Warner tensioners or maybe call the dealer to see if I can get motorcraft tensioners through one of them. @Lee's Automotive does the failure rate of the Cloyes parts also go for the guides and internal tensioners as well? I bought the full timing kit several months back so I can’t return it at this point. I spent like $300 for set so I hate to just throw it away but I also don’t want to have to pull this engine again. Do you think I should source the other timing components from elsewhere? If I’m not mistaken the box the parts came is says made in Germany. I know the 4.0 SOHC is a German made engine so i thought that the parts being made there was a good thing at least better than made in China. I’m certainly going to source other tensioners but what about the rest of the kit?

From what i have seen the guides fail very fast there's also a YouTube channel called Platinum Garage that specializes in rebuilding these engines and his Facebook group has documented several cloyes failures and some within 2 hours of runtime

 

[Lee's Automotive]

@Mitchs07explorer https://www.youtube.com/c/platinumgarage122/videos

 

[Mitchs07explorer]

From what i have seen the guides fail very fast there's also a YouTube channel called Platinum Garage that specializes in rebuilding these engines and his Facebook group has documented several cloyes failures and some within 2 hours of runtime

Wow 2 hours! That would be incredibly upsetting after all they work. I’ve actually been watching platinum garage’s and fordtechmakuloco YouTube videos to do these repairs, those guys are awesome. I’m definitely going to be getting new parts now.

 

[Lee's Automotive]

Wow 2 hours! That would be incredibly upsetting after all they work. I’ve actually been watching platinum garage’s and fordtechmakuloco YouTube videos to do these repairs, those guys are awesome. I’m definitely going to be getting new parts now.

Yep i mean it's expensive but at the same time as long as you replace those tensioners every 75K miles they should last forever tbh the slapping is what breaks them

 

[Mitchs07explorer]

Can’t believe how much money I’ve spent on this project so far

 

[Lee's Automotive]

Can’t believe how much money I’ve spent on this project so far

Yep it's not cheap at all bro i kinda rigged my rear guide with jb weld because it has 267k on it and I'm planning on a reman engine soon

 

[Fix4Dirt]

@Fix4Dirt @Lee's Automotive
Thanks guys, I was wondering about this after reading a couple different threads. I’ll look for the Borg Warner tensioners or maybe call the dealer to see if I can get motorcraft tensioners through one of them. @Lee's Automotive does the failure rate of the Cloyes parts also go for the guides and internal tensioners as well? I bought the full timing kit several months back so I can’t return it at this point. I spent like $300 for set so I hate to just throw it away but I also don’t want to have to pull this engine again. Do you think I should source the other timing components from elsewhere? If I’m not mistaken the box the parts came is says made in Germany. I know the 4.0 SOHC is a German made engine so i thought that the parts being made there was a good thing at least better than made in China. I’m certainly going to source other tensioners but what about the rest of the kit?

usually its the cloyes tensioners, the internal guides, from my understanding, are ok. these days, seems like the ford tensioners are getting less stiff, so @Lee's Automotive im not sure yet on th e75k, oughta do some more testing, but it may become one of those if it aint broke dont fix it things.... since it appears as if the springs are getting weaker in the new ford tensioners...

 

[Lee's Automotive]

usually its the cloyes tensioners, the internal guides, from my understanding, are ok. these days, seems like the ford tensioners are getting less stiff, so @Lee's Automotive im not sure yet on th e75k, oughta do some more testing, but it may become one of those if it aint broke dont fix it things.... since it appears as if the springs are getting weaker in the new ford tensioners...

See that's so confusing man cause from what i have seen the ford tensioners are stronger than the other brands

 

[Fix4Dirt]

See that's so confusing man cause from what i have seen the ford tensioners are stronger than the other brands

yes the ford tensioners are stronger, but the new ones (post '18) seem to be less stiff than the pre '18 tensioners. tested a few springs OE '98 300k spring seemed stiffer than the post '18 tensioner, or so it seems

 

[Lee's Automotive]

yes the ford tensioners are stronger, but the new ones (post '18) seem to be less stiff than the pre '18 tensioners. tested a few springs OE '98 300k spring seemed stiffer than the post '18 tensioner, or so it seems

Dang that sucks

 

[Lee's Automotive]

Can’t believe how much money I’ve spent on this project so far

Also Melling performance is a great choice too

 

[Fix4Dirt]

Dang that sucks

yep so not too sure on the 75k thing, adding it to the list of stuff to do- test tensioners

 

[Fix4Dirt]

Also Melling performance is a great choice too

^^^^^melling is good yep. also if yours doesnt have it the oil restrictor is a good upgrade for these too, though yours being a 07 probably has it

 

[Lee's Automotive]

yep so not too sure on the 75k thing, adding it to the list of stuff to do- test tensioners

Yep see older post on here say 75k miles but now ya got me wondering bro