First time waxer with orbiter

Hey guys

I just purchased a buffer from a garage sale and I plan to use on my own as well as family vehicles. As I am new to the waxing game I decided to ask first before I start. What waxes work well with a metalic paint job? What are the best steps to take in prep? What tips and tricks do you have? I currently use a falcon wash and wax car soap to clean the car. Keep in mind this isn't a show car just want to make my own car look a little bit better. Thanks for the help.

Scott aka trailblazer295 (using dads ID)

 

[CDW6212R]

Wow, lots of misinformation here.

There are two kinds of orbital buffers, as I already described them. If you can stop the pad while running with pressure, those suck and I consider them junk.

The other kind of orbital buffer will not stop at all when you press hard on it with it on the paint. That kind will remove paint, it will remove swirl marks, it will remove scratches. It also will add swirl marks or scratches just like a regular high speed buffer, due to the compound or polish that you use.

The magic is in the liquid/wax product which you use, the level of abrasive in it. A high abrasive will scratch paint, that is used to remove paint, to get down below oxidation to fresh good paint. Lesser abrasives are used to remove less paint, and remove the deeper scratches of the more abrasive products. You must choose just enough abrasive to remove the defect that you are after. Then you use a finer abrasive, to remove the scratches of the first abrasive. The goal is to work to using only a glaze or wax product which has no abrasives in it. That's how you remove all scratches, you don't get it done in one step.

If you have a junk orbital, sell it or toss it. If you have one of the good ones, that is a great tool. With those only an idiot will remove too much paint with.

 

[nole99]

Wow, lots of misinformation here.

There are two kinds of orbital buffers, as I already described them. If you can stop the pad while running with pressure, those suck and I consider them junk.

The other kind of orbital buffer will not stop at all when you press hard on it with it on the paint. That kind will remove paint, it will remove swirl marks, it will remove scratches. It also will add swirl marks or scratches just like a regular high speed buffer, due to the compound or polish that you use.

The magic is in the liquid/wax product which you use, the level of abrasive in it. A high abrasive will scratch paint, that is used to remove paint, to get down below oxidation to fresh good paint. Lesser abrasives are used to remove less paint, and remove the deeper scratches of the more abrasive products. You must choose just enough abrasive to remove the defect that you are after. Then you use a finer abrasive, to remove the scratches of the first abrasive. The goal is to work to using only a glaze or wax product which has no abrasives in it. That's how you remove all scratches, you don't get it done in one step.

If you have a junk orbital, sell it or toss it. If you have one of the good ones, that is a great tool. With those only an idiot will remove too much paint with.

While a good deal of this is accurate information ... you can often times achieve achieve a swirl free finish in ONE step ... just depends on the depth to which your defects are and the technique you are using. Meguiars has a whole slew of diminishing abrasive compounds that make it possible.

100% agree that you want to use the least about of abrasiveness needed to achieve a swirl free result. Realistically you would only use your more abrasive pad and product combo in the areas that need it.

As far as the magic being in the abrasive ... that is only part true ... it is a combination of the PAD and the Abrasive ... For example I can use Meguiars #205 on a Lake County Orange pad to remove light scratches and then the same #205 on a Lake County White or Black pad to remove the remaining light swirls.

As far as using an orbital to remove defects ... in my years of experience it is next to impossible to to truly remove them ... an orbital doesn't generate nearly enough heat to make it happen. At the very least you need a Dual action and a highly abrasive compound such as Meguiars #105 and a good bit of pressure as well

Glazes are filled with resins that do nothing in regards to actually removing swirls ... the resins FILL the swirls and make them less visable to the naked eye

 

[nitro71]

I'll still let you wax my explorer for a test run! LOL!

 

[ninobrn99]

Wow, lots of misinformation here.

There are two kinds of orbital buffers, as I already described them. If you can stop the pad while running with pressure, those suck and I consider them junk.

The other kind of orbital buffer will not stop at all when you press hard on it with it on the paint. That kind will remove paint, it will remove swirl marks, it will remove scratches. It also will add swirl marks or scratches just like a regular high speed buffer, due to the compound or polish that you use.

The magic is in the liquid/wax product which you use, the level of abrasive in it. A high abrasive will scratch paint, that is used to remove paint, to get down below oxidation to fresh good paint. Lesser abrasives are used to remove less paint, and remove the deeper scratches of the more abrasive products. You must choose just enough abrasive to remove the defect that you are after. Then you use a finer abrasive, to remove the scratches of the first abrasive. The goal is to work to using only a glaze or wax product which has no abrasives in it. That's how you remove all scratches, you don't get it done in one step.

If you have a junk orbital, sell it or toss it. If you have one of the good ones, that is a great tool. With those only an idiot will remove too much paint with.

Orbital buffers wont burn through the clear coat because they have very minimal power and almost no torque.

A Dual Action, like a Porter Cable, wont either because it stops spinning when too much pressure is added, so it oscillates instead.

A Rotary if what everyone is referring to when they talk about buring through the clearcoat. You don't burn the paint, you pass the clear and hit paint. If you keep going further than that....you shouldn't have been using it in the first place.
Difference between rotary and dual action(borrowed from Dave KG @ Detailing World)

The key to a great finish is the prep. If you prep the surface correctly products are only a small part of the finished product.

Here are a couple links that the OP and anyone else who is confused should read:
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=66024
http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=67
http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=68

 

[CDW6212R]

I posted good information that a novice should be able to grasp.

I also described a good orbital twice. Someone didn't get it. Those orbitals you refer to are junk, yes they do not generate heat, force etc. Thus they are junk, as I accurately described them.

The orbital I have and others just like it I've used, they will remove paint, and scratches. They will also put scratches in the paint if you use enough force and an abrasive greater than the existing surface defects.

Please learn to identify the junk orbitals, then throw those in the trash, or give them away, or sell them to a sucker. Those do not count, they have no use except trivial final finish purposes, which all other machines will do also. Regards,

 

[trailblazer295]

Thanks for the help guys, didn't realize what I got myself into I think im getting swirls on my eyes reading all this info.

 

[ninobrn99]

haha, and there isnt a day that goes by that I dont read something about detailing.

 

[nole99]

I posted good information that a novice should be able to grasp.

I also described a good orbital twice. Someone didn't get it. Those orbitals you refer to are junk, yes they do not generate heat, force etc. Thus they are junk, as I accurately described them.

The orbital I have and others just like it I've used, they will remove paint, and scratches. They will also put scratches in the paint if you use enough force and an abrasive greater than the existing surface defects.

Please learn to identify the junk orbitals, then throw those in the trash, or give them away, or sell them to a sucker. Those do not count, they have no use except trivial final finish purposes, which all other machines will do also. Regards,

WOW ..... I guess that 95 percent of the PROFESSIONAL detail shops across the country missed the memo on the Porter Cable being junk!!!

If that machine is such junk ... please suggest what is better ... specifically ... you might be able to name 3 that are equal or better ... all of which probably hang in my shop ... sooo have at it

While I agree that 99 percent of the orbitals on the market are junk the Porter Cable is NOT one of them ... I also agree that most of the info you gave was accurate ... I just added onto it.

Ohhh and one more thing ... if you want to speak as some sort of authority ... then get YOUR facts straight ... a PC 7624 WILL remove minor defects and scratches when paired with the PROPER abrasive ... so carry on ... point is ... any major defect is going to take more than a orbital to correct! A DA doesn't even come close to generating the heat a rotary does so you can save that claim for someone interested in swamp land.

 

[nole99]

Thanks for the help guys, didn't realize what I got myself into I think im getting swirls on my eyes reading all this info.

Head on over to autopia and read the forums ... TONS of great info from guys who have been around the biz forever

Like NIN stated ... its all about the prep ... gotta start with a clean canvas or its all for not

 

[tripplec]

Head on over to autopia and read the forums ... TONS of great info from guys who have been around the biz forever

Like NIN stated ... its all about the prep ... gotta start with a clean canvas or its all for not

I have been doing some reading over there, alot of info. As I am new to the care detail game for now I'll just stick with wash, clay wash wax approach. My current car soap is a eagle one wash and wax in one, would this negatively affect my clay bar and wax application?

trailblazer295

 

[ninobrn99]

I have been doing some reading over there, alot of info. As I am new to the care detail game for now I'll just stick with wash, clay wash wax approach. My current car soap is a eagle one wash and wax in one, would this negatively affect my clay bar and wax application?

trailblazer295

I wouldn't use any wash that has a wax in it. It doesn't make sense to me. Think about it, you're adding more to remove as you're cleaning it....hmmm

Most people I know use Dawn detergent soap and water to strip their cars of wax. Once that's done and dried, you can proceed to clay it with a good lube.
Just remember, rip the clay into portions so if it falls, you dont ruin the whole bar.

 

[nole99]

I have been doing some reading over there, alot of info. As I am new to the care detail game for now I'll just stick with wash, clay wash wax approach. My current car soap is a eagle one wash and wax in one, would this negatively affect my clay bar and wax application?

trailblazer295

Yea I would go straight car wash soap ... or as suggested for the first time a Dawn wash ... after you have got to your last wax or sealer step ... any time you wash with Dawn will strip that finish.

When you clay bar it will pull the little bit of wax in the wash of the surface

You can also use a fresh bucket of dawn and water as your clay bar as lube .. or a good quick detailer spay ...

Glad you found the info there useful ... lots of options and once you get into it ... you may become addicted ...lol

 

[ninobrn99]

Yea I would go straight car wash soap ... or as suggested for the first time a Dawn wash ... after you have got to your last wax or sealer step ... any time you wash with Dawn will strip that finish.

When you clay bar it will pull the little bit of wax in the wash of the surface

You can also use a fresh bucket of dawn and water as your clay bar as lube .. or a good quick detailer spay ...

Glad you found the info there useful ... lots of options and once you get into it ... you may become addicted ...lol

GUILTY! I have a Porter Cable 7336 and am about to get a Hitachi SP18VAH when I get paid.

 

[trailblazer295]

My current wash and wax is nearly empty, I'll look for regular car wash soap after its done. As previously stated I am new to this and figured a bit of wax wouldn't be such a bad thing to help protect the car. I do plan to wash, clay, wash and wax but need a weekend I'm actually at home to do it.

 

[ninobrn99]

its time consuming! The end result is worth it!

 

[trailblazer295]

its time consuming! The end result is worth it!

Damn, what did you use to get that? I don't have chrome rims like yours just stockers for now. Don't have the funds for aftermarket. Nice job though.

 

[ninobrn99]

Following the steps I told you. I washed and stripped the previous products that were put on there. Then I did an intricate claying session. Ater that, I washed again. After it was dried, I applied two coats of Mother's Cali Gold Caranuba wax.

Let me tell ya, the water just beads and sheets off. Very easy to maintain after that I use Collinite 845 insulator wax though.

 

[tripplec]

Following the steps I told you. I washed and stripped the previous products that were put on there. Then I did an intricate claying session. Ater that, I washed again. After it was dried, I applied two coats of Mother's Cali Gold Caranuba wax.

Let me tell ya, the water just beads and sheets off. Very easy to maintain after that I use Collinite 845 insulator wax though.

Nice I picked up a jug of simonz car wash without wax, a mothers clay bar package with showtime and same cararnuba wax cleaner. I will most likely use some turtle wax the first time as I already have some. Also picked up back to black to remove the polish from my parents grand cherokee door handles etc when I tried it. Next weekend I'll it a try and post pics when its done. I guess I better get some dawn to strip what little wax is on there.

 

[X6StringerX]

Here's a shot of my 'Stang. I washed it with Meguiar's Gold Class soap, Waxed with Turtle Wax Ice, and then waxed with Meguiar's NXT 2.0. It was all done by hand. I'm very pleased. BTW, this is 9-year-old factory paint. Disregard the yellowed and mismatched headlights... I'll have new ones one the way soon.

 

[ninobrn99]

Here's a shot of my 'Stang. I washed it with Meguiar's Gold Class soap, Waxed with Turtle Wax Ice, and then waxed with Meguiar's NXT 2.0. It was all done by hand. I'm very pleased. BTW, this is 9-year-old factory paint. Disregard the yellowed and mismatched headlights... I'll have new ones one the way soon.

wouldn't it have been cheaper to just try some plasticX or try sanding with progressivly finer sandpaper(1000,2000, 4000), then polishing?