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Flywheel to block spacing - replacement engine trouble!

Turdle

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lay the flexplate flat as mentioned above, how tall is it to top of center hole? ( backspace height) I'll compare mine.
 


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Turdle

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@willfargo picture of backside of flexplate please.

Also, is this flexplate from new engine or old engine? was this plate bolted to this transmission previously?
 




willfargo

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I'll be home in an hour to measure. The flexplate is from the old engine, the new engines flexplate was way different and would not have matched up with the torque converter. I assume it came off of a ranger with a standard transmission
 




donalds

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Any measurements y'all may need from me to compare with just ask

His / your flex plate ring gear looks cracked in your picture or is it just tool marks
 




willfargo

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Seems to be 15/16" thick, caliper can't measure that large of an item so that's with a square.

Flexplate is perfectly flat, there is damage on some teeth but that is likely from when the starter did fail a few years ago, some teeth have decent damage
 




MrQ

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Do you have a picture of the flexplate you took off the "new" engine?

Also, and just throwing this out there as its highly unlikely its your problem, you could have a slightly bent crank. Engine I took out of my 93 had one from a hydrolock. Ran beautifully, but it destroyed starters left and right and made a godawful noise when starting. Easiest way to check is bolt the flex plate back on and spin the engine over by hand and check to see if the flexplate wobbles.
 




willfargo

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Cleaned up the plate and reinspected... No cracks, welds all look fine, no major damage other than a few dinged up teeth. I did spin the crank while my neighbor watched for wobbles but he said it looked true and even all the way around.

Mating surfaces have all been cleaned with a wire wheel. I'm gonna get that plate as flat as I can but I don't know that I have real high hopes for when I get it back together.... The block plate wasn't super bent, just a bit, but I guess there's no way of knowing what goes on in there when its all bolted up and everything is spinning
 




willfargo

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Well I cleaned up the block-trans plate and still just cant believe those little scratches would make all that ruckus. I'm ready to put engine back in tomorrow when my neighbor is free to lend a hand but I'm just not feeling good about it.
I cant think of anything in the transmission that would make that noise, and it seems to be coming from underneath.
I'm still very curious about the camshaft position sensor/synchronizer being noisy but it sounds nothing like what the videos I've watched make it sound like, but that might also explain why it didn't want to stay running. The retaining bolt on the sensor was loose when I got it so I'm wondering if it had been tampered with and may not be in the right position
 




Runnin'OnEmpty

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.........
I'm still very curious about the camshaft position sensor/synchronizer being noisy but it sounds nothing like what the videos I've watched make it sound like, but that might also explain why it didn't want to stay running. The retaining bolt on the sensor was loose when I got it so I'm wondering if it had been tampered with and may not be in the right position
A bad cam synchro will make a shrill squeaking noise. I suppose if it's worn enough, it could throw the sensor "flag" out
of alignment and make a ticking noise against the sensor. It would be a "slow" noise heard at 1/2 the engine rpm.

The sensor has two screws holding it on. The synchro has one bolt holding it in place. If that bolt is loose, the unit can
turn and throw off the fuel injection timing.
 




willfargo

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I ordered a new sychronizer with the install tool. I'm debating dropping the engine back in but wondering if it is a huge pain to replace the synchro while the engine is in place vs out. Any thoughts?

Also, from what I've seen about maintaining the timing... The synchro tool needs to be installed before the synchro is removed. I have no confidence at this point that the synchro is even in the right spot, so how do I make sure the timing is correct when I install the new synchro?
 




Runnin'OnEmpty

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I ordered a new sychronizer with the install tool. I'm debating dropping the engine back in but wondering if it is a huge pain to replace the synchro while the engine is in place vs out. Any thoughts?

Also, from what I've seen about maintaining the timing... The synchro tool needs to be installed before the synchro is removed. I have no confidence at this point that the synchro is even in the right spot, so how do I make sure the timing is correct when I install the new synchro?
Place the engine at TDC on the compression stroke. If the syncro is still in the engine, the flag will be toward the back (near the sensor window) on the compression stroke. If the flag is toward the engine front, then turn the engine over one complete turn to get on the compression stroke.

It is VERY difficult to install the synchro with the engine in place. I had to remove both the upper and lower intakes to replace mine. Your 99 might have more clearance to do the work, but my 2000 had none. It was a bear.
 




willfargo

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So if I'm starting from "ground zero" with no reference, just put engine at tdc on cylinder 1 on compression stroke and make sure the flag is facing backwards?
 




410Fortune

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Now is the time to do the synchro since you have the trans out

I have a picture for you that will show the correct location of the sensor with the engine at cyl TDC on compression stroke
First you put the alignment tool in the new synchro
confirm cyl 1 at TDC on COMPRESSION stroke
drop synchro in on the correct cam tooth and when its fully seated it should point like this:
171_200918_290000000.jpg


just to the pass side of centerline
 




willfargo

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Perfect! Thank you! Part comes in tomorrow so I'll hopefully have a running (quiet) vehicle in the evening
 




410Fortune

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fingers crossed
 




willfargo

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Well of course another hiccup, got the part in but the shaft is too long. Didn't realize there were different shaft lengths so now I have to return and wait for the new one come in with the correct shaft size.
I am now wondering if it even matters which position the synchronizer is pointing after install as long as it's at TDC and installed with the tool.
The one i pulled off the engine was pointing basically straight back, but in the picture from @410Fortune, his seems to be pointing slightly to the right, will that matter as long as it's at TDC and installed with the timing tool?
 




FijiBill

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All the ECU sees is the spinning flag relative to the sensor. You could get it right with a different angle than the one shown in 410s, but not if you are using the alignment tool and following the Ford workshop manual, TDC, etc. Someone else has been in there?
 




willfargo

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Yes, it's a used engine and the original synchro was not tightened down
 




Runnin'OnEmpty

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You can have the synchro off 1 tooth at the gear, and the sensor will align and engine will
run just fine. But it's better for sensor plug clearance and access, for it to be aligned as
410Fortune's pic shows. (With the sensor plug pointed slightly toward the passenger side.)
It's very easy to get it aligned properly. Start dropping the synchro in about 1/2 inch further
to the passenger side than it goes, and when the gears mesh the synchro assembly will turn
itself to the proper position. (Assuming the alignment tool is installed). Piece of cake.
 


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willfargo

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I'm losing my !@#$ing mind here.
Finally got the right synchro delivered and installed....
Now we can't get the engine and transmission lined up correctly. It will drop all the way onto the engine mounts, but the transmission and engine just don't pull together.
The first time we popped the engine back in and got it perfect in literally 5 minutes, we just spent 3 hours trying and it won't work for us. I can't tell if it's the guide dowels/pins that are for some reason not lining up and connecting or what the hell is happening.
Any advice?
 




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