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Fog lights stay on...even with key out

oakley02

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Our 2014 Explorer has a strange issue where the fog lights stay on even when the keys are out. It killed our battery last night because we didn’t notice they were still on. So far I have pulled the fuse in the main cabin for the fogs and mirror turn signals. They turned off but we lost functioning turn signals in the mirrors so I physically disconnected the fogs at the bulb connector and threw the fuse back in to avoid losing this functionality in the mirrors. I can’t seem to locate a relay for the fogs (maybe built into BCM or headlight switch???) any help is much appreciated.
 


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peterk9

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I'm guessing that after removing the fuse, thus turning the fogs OFF, that you did not reinstall it to see if the fogs stayed OFF? Did you try the fog light switch a few times to see if that had any effect? It sounds as though you may have a short somewhere since the power to the fog lights should have been turned OFF after 10 minutes by the Battery Saver feature. The only thing that feature will not turn OFF is the parking lights.

Peter
 




oakley02

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I did put the fuse back in. Again the fogs stayed on. tried the fog switch many times. Used to hear a noticeable “click” when the fogs turned on or off but I no longer hear this. I am thinking a sticking relay somewhere in the dash but have no idea where the relay for the fogs is located. My guess is in the BCM or head lamp switch.
 




peterk9

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There is no relay listed for them but I guess that's not to say there isn't one somewhere. As for the "click", I can't say I've ever heard that, but then I very rarely use my fog lights. Hopefully, someone will have an idea what to check for. Good luck.

Peter
 




oakley02

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Thanks Peter...If you try your fogs you should hear a faint “click” under the dash. I think it’s a relay but then again a 15 amp fuse should have no problem powering the leds in the mirrors and two fog lights directly. (Why I think it might be in the headlight switch itself) who knows. After only 106K I’m ready to unload this clunker (both front wheel bearings, ac compressor, blend door actuator and new drivers door panel due to separation of the “leather”, recall after recall, etc.)

Needless to say, cost of ownership hasnt slowed after the loan was paid off.
 




oakley02

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Anyone have a wiring diagram for this circuit as I am stumped to what is going on here. Thanks!
 




jmr061

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Basically the FLM (that's the headlight switch) sends a CAN-BUS command to the BCM to turn the fogs on (which grounds a non-serviceable relay within the BCM) to turn on the Fogs. It would be nice if you could read for codes...there may or may not be some for this. Manual points to a bad FLM, BCM or wiring issue. Maybe a friend has an Explorer with the same year/headlamp setup and you could pop your switch out and try it in theirs? Try to confirm or eliminate that as an issue.
 




peterk9

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Thanks for that info Jason. Almost sounds like the relay may be bad and staying grounded. In any case, it is something that appears to be overriding the Battey Saver program. This is the first issue of its kind posted in the Forum.

Peter
 




oakley02

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Kinda figured it was more complicated than changing out an ice cube relay...thanks for the response. I think l will cut the harness at the bulbs and wire it the old fashioned way (ice cube and switch on the dash powered off a key on hot circuit). My guess is that ford or some governmental agency got tired of people bypassing their relays to keep the fogs on with the high beams and went totally ballistic in the prevention method. Why would the BCM need to control the fog lights?!??? Crazy.

Would the extended warranty on the BCM/HVAC controls cover such issue? Guessing not....but figured I would ask.
 




peterk9

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Kinda figured it was more complicated than changing out an ice cube relay...thanks for the response. I think l will cut the harness at the bulbs and wire it the old fashioned way (ice cube and switch on the dash powered off a key on hot circuit). My guess is that ford or some governmental agency got tired of people bypassing their relays to keep the fogs on with the high beams and went totally ballistic in the prevention method. Why would the BCM need to control the fog lights?!??? Crazy.

Would the extended warranty on the BCM/HVAC controls cover such issue? Guessing not....but figured I would ask.
Are you asking about the Ford ESP Warranty? Not aware of any extended warranty on those modules. BTW, there are several members that have used Forscan to allow fogs and high beams ON at the same time.

Peter
 




oakley02

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Peter,

I thought there was some mailing I received awhile ago that was a “customer satisfaction” on one of the Sync modules or BCM. I forget was exactly it covered but remembered receiving it.

With regard to Forscan, there’s always a way! Sorry if I sound cynical but I love the vehicle just tired of everything going bad so early. We take great care of our vehicles (dealer serviced since new, all highway miles). Never have I had so many problems with a vehicle under 200K.

Thanks again for everyone’s responses! I’d like to diagnose further just don’t have the time right now. I might just leave the bulbs unplugged until time permits. I think the sticking non serviceable relay is the the likely culprit. Pushing 15 A through a BCM board type relay seems like a likely failure mode but as Jason suggests it could be the switch too. Switch is easy to get to but I doubt anyone I know with an explorer wants me tearing into their dash. I’ll check some local junk yards.


Thanks again!
 




peterk9

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There was an extended 5 year warranty on the APIM but that doesn't appear to be the issue and I'm not sure if it applied to the 2014+ Explorers. Please keep us posted.

Peter
 




oakley02

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That was probably it. Will do.

I’m thinking it’s definitely the relay in the BCM now that I think about it more.

1) The button rarely ever gets pushed by me or my wife.

2) the lights are staying on even when the ignition power is off, therefore the BCM is no longer looking for any input for this circuit.

3) battery saver mode has no effect on the lights
 




peterk9

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Thanks Peter...If you try your fogs you should hear a faint “click” under the dash..............
I tried it last night in the garage with engine, radio and HVAC turned OFF and did not hear any click when I turned the fog lights ON in accessory mode. Did it several times. Might have been a change made in the operation from 2014 to 2017?

Peter
 




oakley02

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Maybe it changed...maybe I was hearing things. Lol.
 




VCFP153

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Basically the FLM (that's the headlight switch) sends a CAN-BUS command to the BCM to turn the fogs on (which grounds a non-serviceable relay within the BCM) to turn on the Fogs. It would be nice if you could read for codes...there may or may not be some for this. Manual points to a bad FLM, BCM or wiring issue. Maybe a friend has an Explorer with the same year/headlamp setup and you could pop your switch out and try it in theirs? Try to confirm or eliminate that as an issue.

Gotta love it. A fly-by-wire headlight switch! Only thing more ridiculous is the motorized glove box on my wife's 328i (the latch is a switch that tells the glove box motor to open the glove box. I'm not kidding).
 




peterk9

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Gotta love it. A fly-by-wire headlight switch! Only thing more ridiculous is the motorized glove box on my wife's 328i (the latch is a switch that tells the glove box motor to open the glove box. I'm not kidding).
I saw the same thing on a commercial for a pickup. I believe it was the Ram.

Peter
 




oakley02

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805389DF-F38D-46EE-A7CB-7A3ADAE9DE71.jpeg
Partial update...Just tried plugging the fogs back in. Still stuck ON even though the dash indicator is not illuminated. Tried putting the high beams ON with the car running and fogs remain ON....
 




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