forced induction with no tune

[volver]

I will be supercharging my 5.0 using an m112 from a ford lightning. I am concerned that if i do not tune right away i will melt my engine if the mixture is to lean.

steveofire wrote a post about tuning.

“If you ever wondered why to get a tuner for your [FONT=verdana, geneva, lucida, lucida grande, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]truck[/FONT], look here for answers.”

In the post he said that he installed an x-charger with no tune. Did he have any complications? Did he get a lean code? how much boost did it make?

i was going to use an m90. i figured that i would make 3-4 psi and i would not need a tune. This m112 could make more than that, possibly 10 psi.



so, Is it safe to supercharge to 4 psi with no tune, is it safe at 10 psi?
How much is a tuner, how much do you get charged for a tune?
How much is a larger pulley to drop the boost?

i could hold the bypass open till i get a tune

 

[Mbrooks420]

I would probably gather all the SC stuff, and hold off until I can afford a tune. No sense in beating up you internals for a short time while you can save for the proper chip/tune.

 

[techieman33]

A tune is mandatory, not only to get the most of your power adder but to keep the rest of the motor safe as well. For a price you need to talk to James, he goes by Jah81592 here on the forum. He is a vendor here on the forum and sells tuners and he will be able to help you tune your explorer. His website is www.hensonperformance.com if you want to look him up there.

 

[po-po 5.0]

You could connect a FMU (fuel management unit), and be ok. The biggest concern is that the stock programming has the truck go to 13.1:1 a/f ratio when under heavy acceleration. This is very lean especially with the hot boost from a non-intercooled roots-style blower. You want more like 12:1. An FMU will add fuel based on boost. Its a hack, but its how most blower kits used to ship for 5.0 mustangs back in the day. You'd still need to back out a bunch of timing too. An option to solve this would be a BTM (boost timing manager). It's another device that takes a vac/boost line as an input, and gradually backs out timing.

both vortech and ATI (procharger) make usable FMUs still. Summit should have both the FMU and a BTM.

 

[Chaz Spaulding]

What's the deal on the M112?

I have the Ex. Express 5.0 X-charger kit. I haven't installed it yet. I have a 331 stroker and AFR 185 heads that I'd like to use. I would like to know about your statement about the M112. I looked up the dimensions of the M112 and the M90 on the Magnuson site. The site shows the M62 when I hit on the M90. It is definitely different than the M62 (I mean the M112's dimensions). I know of no other roots kits for the 5.0 Expl. Another gentleman I talked to mentioned he thought my combination would not be able to keep up with the heads and that I might need to use an M112. I do not know what the blower is that comes with my hit. I assume it is an M90.
Can you tell me if you know that this switch of the X-charger kit's blower to the bigger M112 will work?

Thanks, Man

 

[techieman33]

You could connect a FMU (fuel management unit), and be ok. The biggest concern is that the stock programming has the truck go to 13.1:1 a/f ratio when under heavy acceleration. This is very lean especially with the hot boost from a non-intercooled roots-style blower. You want more like 12:1. An FMU will add fuel based on boost. Its a hack, but its how most blower kits used to ship for 5.0 mustangs back in the day. You'd still need to back out a bunch of timing too. An option to solve this would be a BTM (boost timing manager). It's another device that takes a vac/boost line as an input, and gradually backs out timing.

both vortech and ATI (procharger) make usable FMUs still. Summit should have both the FMU and a BTM.

Don't waste your time and money on that crap for what it will cost you you will just about be able to buy the flash tuner. And with it you'll get improved transmission function as well as having your motors tune where it should be. Spend a little extra money on the proper equipment and tuning. Do it right the first time.

 

[po-po 5.0]

Don't waste your time and money on that crap for what it will cost you you will just about be able to buy the flash tuner. And with it you'll get improved transmission function as well as having your motors tune where it should be. Spend a little extra money on the proper equipment and tuning. Do it right the first time.

I never said it was a good choice, but I think you're wrong. for the cost of an FMU and a BTM you'd be able to get a flash tuner sure.......just one with no tunes on it! At which point, you're back to square one.

 

[techieman33]

I never said it was a good choice, but I think you're wrong. for the cost of an FMU and a BTM you'd be able to get a flash tuner sure.......just one with no tunes on it! At which point, you're back to square one.

James usually includes a couple of tune files for free, but with his supercharger he might have to pay a little extra for the tunes since he'll need to do some data logging to nail the tunes down. And with a tuner he's going to have a real solution to the problem, not just a band-aid. Oh and since he's running bigger injectors the tune would take care of that as well, he won't have to buy a recalibrated maf. (band-aid #3 if we're counting)

 

[Kriegen]

Doesn't James (Jah81592) throw 3 custom tunes in when you buy a tuner from him?

 

[techieman33]

Doesn't James (Jah81592) throw 3 custom tunes in when you buy a tuner from him?

I believe he normally does for forum members. That being said tuning a vehicle with a power adder takes some more work, and he may charge for that, I'm not sure. That's why I told the OP to check with James.

 

[Chaz Spaulding]

It is an M90S

I have the Ex. Express 5.0 X-charger kit. I haven't installed it yet. I have a 331 stroker and AFR 185 heads that I'd like to use. I would like to know about your statement about the M112. I looked up the dimensions of the M112 and the M90 on the Magnuson site. The site shows the M62 when I hit on the M90. It is definitely different than the M62 (I mean the M112's dimensions). I know of no other roots kits for the 5.0 Expl. Another gentleman I talked to mentioned he thought my combination would not be able to keep up with the heads and that I might need to use an M112. I do not know what the blower is that comes with my kit. I assume it is an M90.
Can you tell me if you know that this switch of the X-charger kit's blower to the bigger M112 will work?

Thanks, Man

 

[volver]

Yes, the Explorer Express kit is and M90.

 

[volver]

I will restore the M112 and let it sit till i can afford to install it and get a tune.

Thanks.

 

[gijoecam]

I'm a little confused... You mentioned that the blower was out of a Lightning... a first-gen Lightning didn't have a supercharger, and a second-gen Lightning was a blown 5.4L, not a 5.0....

At any rate, I would definitely tune it before running it.

 

[shadowless127]

I'm a little confused... You mentioned that the blower was out of a Lightning... a first-gen Lightning didn't have a supercharger, and a second-gen Lightning was a blown 5.4L, not a 5.0....

At any rate, I would definitely tune it before running it.

You can fit the m112 to a 5.0, just as you can fit the M90 to an OHV or Modular.

Why anyone would want to use an M112 over a Kenne Bell or Whipple 5.0 kit is beyond me though.

 

[po-po 5.0]

You can fit the m112 to a 5.0, just as you can fit the M90 to an OHV or Modular.

Why anyone would want to use an M112 over a Kenne Bell or Whipple 5.0 kit is beyond me though.

Cost? There's a ton of people that have done just what you suggested on their lightnings so there's a bunch of M112s just sitting around.

 

[Chaz Spaulding]

M112? Kenne-Bell?

Gents, I talked to K.B. before I bought the X-Charger from Ex. Express. They said that they knew of some people who did the job (on an Explorer), but that it didn't work very good and they warn against it. They would not help me try to do it either. They are not interested in the "old" smallblock in comparison to the modulars. I have a built 408 for my Mustang and asked if their biggest blower would work OK. They said that their biggest blower (for the pushrod engine) would not be enough. Also that it might not be enough for my 331. That was enough to discourage me further. If you have enough money you can do most anything, but I'm not a glutton for punishment.

Several of you guys keep bringing up the M112. What I'd like to know is 1) Has anyone done this yet? 2) Since the dimensions are different, are you talking of modifying the X-Charger mounting plate from the kit? Again, has anyone actually done this?

I e-mailed the head tech at Magnuson Superchargers and asked him for his input on the X-Charger kit for a 331/AFR 185 heads combination. He said he was unfamiliar with the kit but that I might run out of blower and might want to consider the MP112. So that puts me back to square one.

If anyone is interested, I would be willing to get together on thoughts to make an X-Charger kit work with a bigger blower. I looked up a website that "Jeff" of Roswell, GA has and looked at his Mountaineer. He has some big heads on his V8 and says it puts out about 400 h.p. I have been unable to contact him though because of a problem with the site. If anyone knows him, maybe he can shed some light on his experiences.

Chaz

 

[shadowless127]

I wasnt talking about a NEW Kenne Bell kit. I was talking about a used 5.0 Kit from the early to mid 90's. Kenne Bell made kits for the 5.0.

As far as the M112, I don't know of anyone on the board that's done it. Most 5.0's on here are built N/A, or turbocharged.

 

[volver]

I would like to use the m112 because it was only 200 dollars on eBay. It has a large flange on it base, this should make it easy to mount on the lower intake of the 5.0. One adapter plate for the lower then another to adapt to the SC. I have a connection to a laser cutter, so should only cost 75 to 100 dollars for the plates. Then i will need a larger belt and some idle pulleys to work the belt.

I then plan on using a zip tie or something to hold the pressure bypass open untill i can get some fuel management parts.



After I contacted James Henson, and discussing my dilemma of wanting a supercharger and being poor, I have come up with the following result

I will need a fuel pump a 255 liters per hour

new injectors 42lbs

a wide band O2 sensor

a tuner and tunes

I will keep the stock MAF because it will cost less to not buy it, and i wont have to tune for it. i will make less power but that is ok

i would rather not buy a wide band O2 sensor, maybe it can be roughly tuned with out it. Or I could find one on eBay.



Where can I get a 255 liter per hour pump? Summit has a Holly that makes 110 Psi. Its only 100 dollars. Does any one have a used one for less?

Where can I get 42 lb injectors. Summit also has them but they are 400 dollars for 8 of them.

Does any one have a Wide band O2 sensor that they used for tuning but they do not want any more?



If any one lives near Moline IL or Davenport IA, Quad cities in general, could I barrow your tuning equipment, possibly rent it?






.

 

[techieman33]

I would like to use the m112 because it was only 200 dollars on eBay. It has a large flange on it base, this should make it easy to mount on the lower intake of the 5.0. One adapter plate for the lower then another to adapt to the SC. I have a connection to a laser cutter, so should only cost 75 to 100 dollars for the plates. Then i will need a larger belt and some idle pulleys to work the belt.

I then plan on using a zip tie or something to hold the pressure bypass open untill i can get some fuel management parts.



After I contacted James Henson, and discussing my dilemma of wanting a supercharger and being poor, I have come up with the following result

I will need a fuel pump a 255 liters per hour

new injectors 42lbs

a wide band O2 sensor

a tuner and tunes

I will keep the stock MAF because it will cost less to not buy it, and i wont have to tune for it. i will make less power but that is ok

i would rather not buy a wide band O2 sensor, maybe it can be roughly tuned with out it. Or I could find one on eBay.



Where can I get a 255 liter per hour pump? Summit has a Holly that makes 110 Psi. Its only 100 dollars. Does any one have a used one for less?

Where can I get 42 lb injectors. Summit also has them but they are 400 dollars for 8 of them.

Does any one have a Wide band O2 sensor that they used for tuning but they do not want any more?



If any one lives near Moline IL or Davenport IA, Quad cities in general, could a barrow your tuning equipment, possibly rent it?






.

Look in the for sale sections of mustang sites for the parts your looking for.