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Ford too tough on copyright


SVO

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BTW, did you know? This land is your land, this land is my land.



You had better open up DMI again, my buttons are starting to get pushed and the things I want to rant about are off topic for this forum :mad:






Jeff - :navajo:
 


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Turdle

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I getting just a little more than upset over this-

I feel we as a group do more to defend Ford image than Ford themselves-

We play a role in their success, however small that role is, we are still involved.
I don't think I am out of line when I say this site is helping keep older explorers rolling down the road.When a person is shopping for a new vehicle, they just might notice how many old explorers are still out there, and decide to buy a new one.
OK, in the scheme of things-it's a drop in the bucket, bit how can we possibly harm their image?

This move by them seems very un American. I may just move my next vehicle choice accordingly.
 




Exploderpilot

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Oh don't worry Rick, I made no mention of the site name, however, I did give them an idea of how many members strong we are, and instead of saying how mad and what A-holes we would be if this doesn't work out, I was very positive about it, saying that we were loyal and proud ford enthusiasts who would be more than pleased with our automaker if they granted us permission. I also made it known that the calendar run would be non-profit, and of a short enough run that there really wouldn't be enough money for them to even grab a chunk of. I may be an irresponsible drinker, but I'm not stupid. I'm actually quite the author.....
 




sodjer6

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whatever happened to not biting the hand that feeds you?

I bet a lot of people won't be repeat Ford buyers after this
 




ProjectAviator

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You guys better watch out you took pictures of your trucks, Ford may want royalties for it. Then again I am guilty too.

Tim
 




Joe Dirt

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It's about using their logos, etc, etc.

How many times have you seen a commercial where the front emblem is taped off on a truck, or a fake label saying "beer" is on a can of brew. It's no different. If you intend to make money off of a product, you cannot use the copyrighted intellectual property of someone or a corporation in the process.


Here is Ford's letter:
------------------------
"Although you and your members may own the Ford automobile, you do not own the rights to the trade dress. Taking pictures of any Ford automobiles, placing them on products (i.e. calendar, mugs, t-shirts, etc.) and making them available to the public for sale is an infringement of Ford's intellectual property rights."

"Because of the cachet of the world-famous Ford name, thousands of independent businesses and people make a living from or pursue a hobby related to Ford products and services. Unfortunately, many of these businesses improperly attempt to affiliate themselves with Ford by using Ford trademarks and trade dress (for instance, the depictions or photographs of Ford's distinctively shaped vehicles) in advertising their products and services."

"If a business not affiliated with Ford uses any Ford trademark, whether through the use of photographs, depictions or silhouettes, or any confusingly similar variation thereof, without Ford's express, written consent, then that business is violating Federal and state trademarks laws."

"It is also not sufficient for a business to state that it is not affiliated with Ford but continue to use Ford trademarks without permission. The business is still misappropriating the goodwill and reputation developed by Ford, and attempting to capitalize on or profit from Ford's goodwill and reputation. Even with the best of intentions, unauthorized use of another company's trademark is against the law."

"At times Ford enthusiasts question why Ford is so adamant about policing it's trademarks and preventing unauthorized uses or infringements of them. It is quite common for someone who is using a trademark without permission to say, "I'm giving Ford free advertising, so why does Ford care?" Ford cares because it is important that Ford be able to exercise control over the quality of the product or service bearing Ford's trademarks."

"To protect the value of its trademarks, Ford is obligated to object to and pursue unauthorized uses of its trademarks and trade dress, even if the use of the trademark or trade dress does not appear offensive or objectionable."
------------------------

Sorry, but I agree with Ford on this one. It's the slippery slope idea. If this issue makes someone stop buying Ford, so be it- but understand why they do what they do.

My friend had tried to have some t-shirts made on cafepress with a picture of a Chevy Aveo with a somewhat funny caption meant to question the "manliness" of his buddy that bought one. CafePress refused to print the shirt because the Aveo image was copyrighted. This happens more than you all know.
 




BrooklynBay

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Maybe Ford could argue if it's a model still in production, but what if it's an old model which is out of production, and Ford no longer sells parts for it? Technically Ford abandoned that model so they shouldn't care about a picture of it. I guess Chilton, and Haynes manuals pay hefty rates to use pictures of Fords in their repair manuals?
 




Turdle

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You know
I'd imagine the feeling I'm having now is similar to when the person you love say's "I was faking it"

I never heard that, so I am not sure, but I imagine it's about the same. :rolleyes:

Well, it's time to get with the program. You want to go fast and have some backing-
get a small block Chevy.

I'm tired of the fight now. This kills it for me:(
 




leebo

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I agree with Joe on this one. If you watch about any TV ad from even a local major car dealer selling a new ford truck, most often even that video of the truck was provided by Ford. You can get away with selling an "Explorer" Calender as long as you can't really tell it's an Explorer. :D Close up shots on the lights, showing an Explorer outline at night, and so forth. Like it or not, it's the world we live in.
 




Dan Whitaker

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You know
I'd imagine the feeling I'm having now is similar to when the person you love say's "I was faking it"

I never heard that, so I am not sure, but I imagine it's about the same. :rolleyes:

Well, it's time to get with the program. You want to go fast and have some backing-
get a small block Chevy.

I'm tired of the fight now. This kills it for me:(

Yep. Ford in their infinite wisdom pulled out of NHRA & IHRA Pro-Stock to go strictly NASCAR
racing. When is the last time a Ford driver won the championship. They have also pulled their sponsor of Big Foot. Chandler is looking at going with Toyota.
 




Joe Dirt

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some are missing the point. It isn't about the car as much as the Mustang trademark, the Ford logo, and distributing a product littered with trademarked property.

And Chevy did the same thing to my buddy. So I guess we'll all have to walk around. No wait- Nike would do it too. Make that walk around barefoot.

Anyone here own logo'd shirts? You support the same argument- because those cannot be reproduced either. Ever seen a fake Nike shirt? (aside from some border town crap...)

Don't blame Ford, they're protecting their interests, because that's what the system requires them to do to maintain control of their intellectual property rights and trademarks, which are rightfully theirs. As well- I guess if a company does not use a trademarked name for 3 years, they lose rights to it.

And let's not forget- If Ford didn't do this, someone else could buy the rights to the name or likeness of one of their ideas. And recently, they got burned for it. Ford didn't protect their old copyrighted name for an old Fairmont model, and Pep Boys bought the name for a line of cheap tires they sold. Ford was sued over the new Futura, and lost in court and had to rename the Futura the Fusion.

So yes, it does matter. It's a slippery slope.
 




Brock94

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Sorry, but I agree with Ford on this one. It's the slippery slope idea. If this issue makes someone stop buying Ford, so be it- but understand why they do what they do.

I would understand if they were cracking down on someone circulating 100,000 calendars nationwide or the like, but if they want to maintain the "good will" they are so proud of, they ought to let smaller stuff slide. I don't know what kind of run the Mustang forum was going to do, but it seems like Ford has crossed the line on this and whether they have the right or not, it will make them look like idiots.

Everybody that has "Ford" in their user name should start sending royalties.
 




Joe Dirt

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they ought to let smaller stuff slide

That pretty much defines slippery slope, no?

Got to tell you, if I had to decide on protecting the name and copyright on "Ford" or "Mustang" or the pony logo- or letting a bunch of people print stuff off and sell it for a profit, I'd do exactly what Ford is doing.

This isn't the only case I'm sure. Once it starts sliding, where does it stop?

Rarely do you find goodwill anymore in business negotiations. People rarely respect or adhere to those types of agreements. Sad commentary, yes, but it's just the way it is now.

I even tried to print shirts on cafe with my screen name and a pic of a recent movie character to remain nameless... :D for a golf outing we had for a bunch of friends- and cafe only allowed one shirt to be printed, for personal use, and the rest of the order was stopped, per procedures.
 




BrooklynBay

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If anybody remembers the Ford CD site which had free Ford CDs, then you might know that it was closed down because Ford is in a lawsuit with the guy. I don't know the outcome, but it's still down, so Ford put a stop to it. There are planty of guys on EBay selling these CDs, and making a profit, so maybe they shouldn't be too hard on the guy for trying to help people out for free. It cost him a lot each month to provide this kind of service since he had to pay for a lot of bandwidth.
 




techieman33

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It doesn't matter if it's 10 callender's or 100,000 calenders, it's all the same as far as the law is concerned Ford has to make an effort to protect their trademarks, or they loose them it's that simple.

Now if Ford wanted to be nice about the whole thing they could license "Bob" to make 100 calenders for $.01 and everything would be all nice and legal, it doesn't have to be expensive to license something even though it usually is.
 




IZwack

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Once it starts sliding, where does it stop?
Exactly.

This is why this needs to be taken to court, before the slope gets too steep and every little thing we enjoy and do as a community of enthusiasts gets sucked in and becomes illegal.

I mean ultimately, what is this going to lead to, going underground and going grass-roots? It'll be almost like drug trafficing, except we're trafficing shirts with pictures of Explorers.

I mentioned in a moderator discussion that an option would be to do a calendar or a shirt but with higly modified Explorers or Rangers that can not be distinguished from say a Cherokee -- debadging and pulling the headlights is easy enough. I cant find a pic but CoryL's old rig (with 6 or 7 inch round lights) comes to mind.
 




DeRocha

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Here is Ford's letter:
------------------------
"Although you and your members may own the Ford automobile, you do not own the rights to the trade dress. Taking pictures of any Ford automobiles, placing them on products (i.e. calendar, mugs, t-shirts, etc.) and making them available to the public for sale is an infringement of Ford's intellectual property rights."
...

Ok, but what if we take pictures of our Cars/Trucks and place them on a calendar but DON'T make them available to the public? I can see both sides of the issue.. On one hand Ford enthusiast sites want to make a calender and sell a few hundred copies to its members at little to no profit. On the other there could be people making calendars with the explicit intent to make a profit and sell them in various venues. Unfortunately Ford doesn't have the resources or time to make the distinction between a limited run of calenders for members and a commercial run from someone out to make a buck, as such they would deny any request unless it was presented in profession way to their legal dept.
 




Joe Dirt

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Take it to court? Right- because Ford is the only corporation or entity trying to protect itself from people trying to get something for nothing. :rolleyes:

Go through the channels, and everyone is happy. If there is an issue, they can be worked out, I've seen it done.

So then the argument is: Ford has spent Billions of dollars building their name recognition for their goods and services, let's just let anyone that wants to- use those defining factors to make a profit- for free. If that sounds fair, something is wrong.

And before someone says "I bought a Ford, so..." Just because you buy a product does not give you a right to have free reign with their copyrighted materials and properties. Do you think there were some negotiations that took place before companies started making new bodies and parts for classic cars?

As far as letting the little things slide- they do. I don't think anyone here has been served papers for using Ford products in correspondence or for your own personal use. And trust me- if Ford wanted to shut any enthusiast site down, they would have done so by now. Why not? because they DO want the goodwill and relationships to continue. Start producing something using the Blue Oval logo as a selling feature, and you may have problems though- and that's how it should be. America is based on free enterprise- and nobody should be allowed to use your ideas or properties, passed off as their own- to make money for themselves.

Unfortunately, DeRocha is right, in that Ford needs to stop them all, to protect against the bad. Why? Because unfortunately they can't afford in time or money to police everything.
 




Raminator157

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This is all too funny. Hassle a Car club on making a Calendar. You would think, with declineing automotive sales no matter what company it is, they wouldnt care.
 


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