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Ford too tough on copyright


Dan Whitaker

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My problem with Ford is the pictures were all of members cars which they own. They did not go to Ford dealers, websites what have you and down load or take pictures of Mustangs. How is using your own car to make a calender for members only stealing from Ford?

I'm driving their vehicle with their logo. Does this mean I have to pay them roalties just to drive the damn thing. With their logic it sure as hell sounds that way.

Ford is more concerned over calenders than making quality products. They are pissing off the last of the people that might buy thier vehicles.
 


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Joe Dirt

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Ford is not more concerned with calendars than quality products. Ford builds quality products. Ford also has a legal department that helps them protect what's theirs. That is their right.

No you don't have to pay Ford to drive your truck. You have to pay Mercury to drive your truck. :D (Sorry- couldn't resist)

Problem is, we are reading a newsfeed of a story- not the entire legal brief. We do not know the entire story, nor do we know where it could have gone.
 




IZwack

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So then the argument is: Ford has spent Billions of dollars building their name recognition for their goods and services, let's just let anyone that wants to- use those defining factors to make a profit- for free. If that sounds fair, something is wrong.
Free? As I remember it, we actually bought their "goods" (Explorers, Rangers, etc..).

So my question is, if I remove the doors off of my Explorer, debadged it (remove the ovals, "Explorer" on the back, and so on) so that the average person can not distinguish it from another debadged Jeep Cherokee, and took pictures of it, I'm free from Ford's grasp right? I mean it already has a Jeep front axle and a GM rear axle. Wait, that is in a way, a vandalization of their product isnt it? But wait, I bought that product, which would make it, mine?
 




Joe Dirt

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you're totally missing the point. You have the right to use your truck, for your use. Are you paying royalties to drive it?

Point is, by me buying a Ford Truck, I do not give myself the right to use their copyrighted materials i.e. logos, etc. to produce another product for sale, for profit.
 




IZwack

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Okay okay, but what if we removed all of those copyrighted materials? This includes the logos, the name, the 2nd geneation headlight which makes the 2nd generation an "Explorer". Are we then legit to make calendarS?
 




Dan Whitaker

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Ford is not more concerned with calendars than quality products. Ford builds quality products.

I have zero issues with my Mountaineer. The Taurus we had was another problem and it was not isolated to it. The transmissions were junk.

Then there is the 3.8 V6 that had nothing but head gasket problems. how do you call that quality. I realize the Taurus & Sable are no longer built nor the 3.8 V6 but that left a lot of bad taste in the buyers mouths which has driven them away from Ford.
 




Turdle

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Exactly.

This is why this needs to be taken to court, before the slope gets too steep and every little thing we enjoy and do as a community of enthusiasts gets sucked in and becomes illegal.

I mean ultimately, what is this going to lead to, going underground and going grass-roots? It'll be almost like drug trafficing, except we're trafficing shirts with pictures of Explorers.

I mentioned in a moderator discussion that an option would be to do a calendar or a shirt but with higly modified Explorers or Rangers that can not be distinguished from say a Cherokee -- debadging and pulling the headlights is easy enough. I cant find a pic but CoryL's old rig (with 6 or 7 inch round lights) comes to mind.

Hell yeah Iz-
speak it brother!
 




Joe Dirt

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That's exactly what happens in commercials. Producing company is granted clearance to use the product, either for fee or fee free, and you see what you KNOW is a disguised Ford, with the Ford logo taped over. Exactly. Difference is, for a commercially produced product, the proper channels and normal industry practices were followed.
 




Turdle

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Boy, this could kill Hot Rod magazine and the likes--

do they need to get clearance for every Camaro they print? seriously?

seems they make a few bucks exploiting cars.
 




kert0307

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I can see how Ford wouldn't like a calender if it used close up pics of things like decals and stuff or old promotional fliers, but if it is a pic of the total car infront of some scenic view, they are using their own creativity to take the pic...


BTW: Do you work for Ford Joe?
 




Joe Dirt

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Sorry Dan, every vehicle is made with parts, all are mechanical, and everything can break. Quality argument? Is Ford perfect? No. Is Toyota perfect? No. My mom has had as many problems with her two Camry's as I've had with any of my Ford's, and actually- more. She absolutely despises her new '08 Camry. So by that argument, I'd say Ford builds better cars than Toyota based on my personal experience, if that's the barometer. But it shouldn't be. You need to look at the whole picture as a whole. I only got bugged by stories about broken 20 year old Ford vehicles and relating those stories to new showroom Ford vehicles whom those people in question have not looked at in 10 years. Not saying you are one, because I don't know your whole story, and you may have a valid claim.

No, I don't work for Ford, I just grabbed the flag for the argument because I'm bored at work... :D

Magazines and publications are based on advertisers- Ford, Chevy, Dodge, etc., are all advertisers. Nothing is free. Just as Ford wants as many Mustangs as possible printed in Hot Rod Magazine, Hot Rod Magazine wants Ford to print ads in their rag. Contracts are worked out for these things- allowing publication of approved images.
 








Turdle

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This is a slippery slope, and seems would allow for the automaker to sue for "copyright infringement" if you alter their design in an accident.

Anywhere the slope ends Joe-it is still in America--

This is something to consider if you choose to do business in "free country"
 




leebo

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IZ....to answer to your question about removing the badges and doors and such, maybe. :D

If you can in any way tell it's a Ford Explorer, then no. :D Now if you were to show a pic from under the truck looking up at a fully flexed out suspension and show a few body panels, then yes.

http://www.explorerforum.com/thaven_oct_07/pages/DSC_0780.htm

Take a look at this photo. Now replace the person with an explorer. This SHOULD pass for ok. Even if you can see the outline, you can't tell the likeness. Copyrights' and such is a BIG business, with even layers knowing better than to touch on the subject without years of studying Copyright Law. Often the answer to copyright questions on if it will or will not pass is simple......maybe.
 




cculter

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What about our T-shirts then? They have rick's truck on them. I can see Ford's perspective they worked hard to design the veichles and don't want someone else making money off of their hard work. If there is no profit gain then there should be no problem.
 




techieman33

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What about our T-shirts then? They have rick's truck on them. I can see Ford's perspective they worked hard to design the veichles and don't want someone else making money off of their hard work. If there is no profit gain then there should be no problem.

A lot of people profited on the sale of those shirts if you really think about it.

The company that made the t-shirt it was printed on, the shop that made the shirts, usps who shipped them, rick got a couple dollars for each sale for the website, and I'm sure there were several others if you wanted to get real specific.
 




Joe Dirt

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Right on jt- That's why Ford has a right to protect themselves from unauthorized use of it's protected materials- because they are operating in this free country. Hey- someone got caught. That's all it is. I don't think that the possibility of having your ideas and materials stolen is an acceptable assumption of risk, simply because you operate in a free country.

I guess my point for the calendars is that this isn't about calendars at all- it's a big picture issue relating to copyright law. The calendars just happened to be the vehicle (pardon the pun) for the issue.
 




cculter

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A lot of people profited on the sale of those shirts if you really think about it.

The company that made the t-shirt it was printed on, the shop that made the shirts, usps who shipped them, rick got a couple dollars for each sale for the website, and I'm sure there were several others if you wanted to get real specific.

Very true I didn't think about all the "other" business like usps.
 


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briwayjones

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Unfortunately, many of these businesses improperly attempt to affiliate themselves with Ford by using Ford trademarks and trade dress (for instance, the depictions or photographs of Ford's distinctively shaped vehicles) in advertising their products and services."

whether through the use of photographs, depictions or silhouettes, or any confusingly similar variation thereof, without Ford's express, written consent, then that business is violating Federal and state trademarks laws."

According to this you couldn't even de-badge your Ford and put the picture on something. I can understand the intellectual property with Ford's trademarked logos and names, but according to this you can't do it right down to the shape of the vehicle. Because it can be recognized as a Ford. I ask then what rights do we really have to our own vehicles? It's basically like we paid for them, maintain them, take care of them but that just gives us the right to drive them but they're not really ours, they're still owned by Ford and Ford just lets us use them. I think once Ford sells you a vehicle aside from teh trademarked property on the vehicle (logos, names) Ford forfeits it's right to the vehicle.
 




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