Going from 22 RMS to 14 a bad idea?

[Number4]

So, I thought my Kenwood KDC-X395 (which came with my car) had died.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Mmv8GW7U8lZ/p_113KDCX395/Kenwood-Excelon-KDC-X395.html

So I picked up this Pioneer (not a fan) for $50 never used.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-gmEaAQzbKqh/p_130FHX500U/Pioneer-FH-X500UI.html

I prefer the 2x Din because it fills the dash better, though I've noticed they don't usually have as good a sound specs as the 1x DIN models.

The Kenwood has 22 Watts RMS where the Pioneer is only 14.
Though the Pioneers RMS is noted as being CEA-2006 compliant.

Could it be that the Kenwood stated 22 isn't a reliable number?

My car came with a Kicker 250.1 AMP and a Kicker sub and Infinity door speakers. Not the most powerful system, but mind blowing, especially compared to the stock sub and speakers. Not even in the same ballpark.

My biggest concern, is that I'm going to notice a difference in sound going from 22 to 14 RMS. I don't crank the system, so maybe this won't matter.

Any input would be great.

 

[colintrax]

If thé Kenwood really does put out 22 you'll be disappointed. However Kenwood isn't CEA compliant like you said, so 22 watts could be totally unrealistic. That's why I refuse to buy Kenwood.

 

[corkey]

i only buy Kenwood, i have a kdc-891 with 4 2way kenwood 5x7 speakers and it's plenty loud enough,,

 

[chefduane]

I put in a Kenwood DPX-500BT double din unit which is rated at 22w RMS - 50w peak. Matched it with 4x Pioneer TSG6844R door speakers and an Excelon KFCXW800F shallow mount sub to fit in the existing enclosure. System sounds fantastic. I don't think you would be disappointed.

 

[corkey]

i would say the drop from 22 to 14 is going to be noticeable

it's actually a bunch,, 1/3 of total output,

but as stated you don't crank it , so it could be okay, but you will notice that the volume needs to be set higher for it to overcome road noises,,,,

 

[colintrax]

You guys, remember Kenwood doesn't have their stuff independently tested. The 22 watts Kenwood claims could be total BS.
http://blog.sonicelectronix.com/news-on-the-car-audio-industry/cea-2006-compliant/

 

[chefduane]

Even if it is total BS does it matter if the system sounds great, crisp highs, thumping bass, and the unit has all the bells and whistles (Bluetooth, RDS, Info system, USB, etc..)? No offense, but I don't care if the thing has 22w or 14w RMS or whatever, and has or has not been independently tested by whomever. It does what I want it to do and then some.

 

[corkey]

straying away from the question the O P asked, that mattered,,

would the decrease in watts be a significant difference,,

let's not forget it's his thread,

 

[chefduane]

Understood.

Would it be possible to splice in each unit one at a time temporarily and test using similar speakers? That would give you the best baseline test. As long as the speakers are electrically matched to the HU output (be it 22w or 14w) I would think it should sound ok.

 

[Number4]

That's a good point. I have them both and they both work. The 1x DIN is going to go into my '94.

I can do some laymans testing to see.

The CEA-2006 testing is voluntary, if Kenwood knows there stereos are better, they may not see the need for the added expense, what ever it is.

 

[Number4]

Stole this from another non vehicle related forum. The second part of the statement is what's interesting.


"Did you notice the Kenwood units are not CEA-2006 compliant? That means their power ratings are not based on industry standards. That also means the power ratings cannot be trusted.

Also - do you understand decibels vs. electrical power? To increase the loudness by 3 dB (barely audible), you must double the power. If the Kenwood really had 22 watts RMS, it is only 1.96 dB louder than 14 watts. A 35W amp is only 1.46 dB louder than a 25W amp."

 

[colintrax]

Stole this from another non vehicle related forum. The second part of the statement is what's interesting.


"Did you notice the Kenwood units are not CEA-2006 compliant? That means their power ratings are not based on industry standards. That also means the power ratings cannot be trusted.

Also - do you understand decibels vs. electrical power? To increase the loudness by 3 dB (barely audible), you must double the power. If the Kenwood really had 22 watts RMS, it is only 1.96 dB louder than 14 watts. A 35W amp is only 1.46 dB louder than a 25W amp."

I'm far from an electrical genius, but I wouldn't put much weight in that statment. I went from a ~14 watt pioneer to a I believe 24 watt? Pioneer. Pretty significant difference, granted I also have aftermarket speakers and keep the volume up. Also 3db is noticeable, in the mx world noise is a big issue. I can tell the difference between a ~100db bike and a AMA legal 96db bike all day, both are loud but only one is obnoxious.

 

[Number4]

Just to follow up on this, the Pioneer is a total disappointment.

I lost all significant sub/amp control by getting rid of the Kenwood. Kenwood comes with far more options for sub settings. With the Pioneer I'd have to buy a remote amp gain controller, can't even noticeably hear the sub. With the Kenwood, I could make the sub pound if I wanted to.

The Kenwoods just sound better. I have two cars that came to me with Kenwoods, I will be selling my Pioneer.

 

[CDW6212R]

If the subject is 22w versus 14w, the answer is simple, yes it'll be noticed.

But the subject ignores the real issue in car stereo sound quality and volume. The subject should be whether to cut the speaker wires off(tape them off politically speaking) coming out of any aftermarket HU, or live with that high distortion output quality.

Any stereo that has low level outputs(RCA cables) should use those only. Find the time and money to install RCA cables, and high quality amp(s), to feed speaker wires from the amp(s) to the speakers. That's truly the only good way to build a car stereo. Any radio(cheapest you can find), feeding a high end amplifier, will blow away any high powered radio you can name, feeding speakers from it's internal amp.

So concentrate on building a stereo using only low level HU outputs(RCA cables). That will result in much clearer and louder sound.

My first car I put a single Nakamichi PA200 amp($200) into(under the front seat), two Pioneer door speakers($50), and used a $35 cassette player in the dash. The amp could accept high level signals(the radio only had speaker wire outputs). But adjusted well, full volume before distortion(high level outputs grow distortion fast past a certain level) was louder than you could hear people yelling nearby. That cheap radio had a volume knob that went about 270 degrees. Full volume that you could put up with was at about 90 degrees. So it was really easy to crank it up too much. I lived with that for several years before selling the car, and keeping the amp(30w x2). The radio wasn't terribly loud or good after I rewired it straight to the speakers.

That PA200 amp used a 15a fuse, those amps take a bunch of current and create zero(.005%) distortion sound. If you want super clear sound, find super amps with super low distortion. Those PA amps still cost about half of what they were new in the early 80's. They are very popular still today. I have several now to use in my projects. Regards,

 

[MotorCityFats13]

depending on what kind of end user the HU is geared for they might not want to seek CEA certification because the on board options are biased on amplifier usage.... I use a pioneer AVH-4800bs and could not tell you what it sounds like without an amp since I bought that unit for its time delay, active stage and auto tuning features..... as for +3 +6 and +10db increases vs double the noticeable output, this becomes less and less noticeable the higher you get..... if your bass has an spl output of 100db and you goto 103db you hear a difference but if you go from 145db to 148db you cant hear the difference and 155db is perceived as 2x as loud with about 3-4 times the power or 3-4 times more sub surface area ..... that being said unless the headunit has an actual on board amp "not many do" then the theoretical rms power is pretty much the same minus distortion.... 14.4 X 14.4 / 4 / 2 = 25.92 max rms in a perfect world, 19.5rms with engine off and how many people can hear the difference between engine on vs off