Heater / Cooling

[Deathwish657]

Hello, I’ve been reading up on this problem a lot, trying to figure it out, researching it like crazy, asking a lot of people about it, just is not finding an answer for it.

Problem: With the heater on, Temp Gauge will fluctuate (Go up above Half, down to just before the C.), and every now and then there is a ‘Thumping’ noise.

Components to Eliminate: Water pump, Radiator, Thermostat (Which, Yes. It is in the right way.), All hoses (Upper, Lower, Heater hoses), Heater control valve, Idler pulley, Idler tensioner

This is a list of ALL I have already replaced while trying to figure this problem out, which hasn’t fixed it just yet.

List Starts Now:

1.) Replaced Water pump.
2.) Replaced Radiator.
3.) Replaced All Hoses (Upper, Lower, Heater Hoses)
4.) Replaced Heater Control Valve
5.) Replaced Thermostat
6.) Replaced Idler Tensioner
7.) Replaced Idler Pulley
8.) Thoroughly flushed entire system, checked heater core for leakage. (Nothing found)
9.) Replaced Radiator Cap

With that all said, I was going to replace the heater core, but looked into it further before messing with that. (That’s a hell of a job…) Known symptoms for heater core failure indicate leakage of anti-freeze to passenger side floor, windows left with a filmy texture, smell of anti-freeze. I have had None of these, so I’m eliminating the heater core out.

Other possibilities: Exhaust Manifold Gaskets, Intake manifold gasket bad.
Note: There is no sign of blown head gasket, since there is no coolant in the oil, no oil in the coolant so I’m sure that isn’t a cause for it.

If anyone happens to have any other suggestions, that would be helpful.
I am going to Pressure test the cooling system soon, do a compression test as well.

After all of this, I don’t know what else to do anymore.

 

[yavapaires]

Hello, I’ve been reading up on this problem a lot, trying to figure it out, researching it like crazy, asking a lot of people about it, just is not finding an answer for it.

Problem: With the heater on, Temp Gauge will fluctuate (Go up above Half, down to just before the C.), and every now and then there is a ‘Thumping’ noise.

Components to Eliminate: Water pump, Radiator, Thermostat (Which, Yes. It is in the right way.), All hoses (Upper, Lower, Heater hoses), Heater control valve, Idler pulley, Idler tensioner

This is a list of ALL I have already replaced while trying to figure this problem out, which hasn’t fixed it just yet.

List Starts Now:

1.) Replaced Water pump.
2.) Replaced Radiator.
3.) Replaced All Hoses (Upper, Lower, Heater Hoses)
4.) Replaced Heater Control Valve
5.) Replaced Thermostat
6.) Replaced Idler Tensioner
7.) Replaced Idler Pulley
8.) Thoroughly flushed entire system, checked heater core for leakage. (Nothing found)
9.) Replaced Radiator Cap

With that all said, I was going to replace the heater core, but looked into it further before messing with that. (That’s a hell of a job…) Known symptoms for heater core failure indicate leakage of anti-freeze to passenger side floor, windows left with a filmy texture, smell of anti-freeze. I have had None of these, so I’m eliminating the heater core out.

Other possibilities: Exhaust Manifold Gaskets, Intake manifold gasket bad.
Note: There is no sign of blown head gasket, since there is no coolant in the oil, no oil in the coolant so I’m sure that isn’t a cause for it.

If anyone happens to have any other suggestions, that would be helpful.
I am going to Pressure test the cooling system soon, do a compression test as well.

After all of this, I don’t know what else to do anymore.

What does the temp gauge do with the heater off?

 

[Deathwish657]

Well, yea of course I’d forget to include something in that all lol... When the heater isn't on the Temp gauge stays in the normal range, it doesn't fluctuate.

 

[fast_dave]

Deathwish657,

I've read your list of the (9) parts you've replaced - and it's complete.

So with that in mind, try this - the factory heater core has a screen filter inside of it, on the inlet side, which can get clogged.

Have you tried pushing some water (or pressurized air) through the heater core - in effect "reverse flushing" the heater core?

Disconnect the heater hoses at the heater control valve and try that.

You can look at this thread for an idea of how to blow compressed air through the heater hoses - just utilize the hoses that are AFTER the heater control valve - look at post #28 in the thread BELOW.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307250&page=2

If you don't have an air compressor, but do have access to a garden hose, you could use a cooling system flush "t" and block off one end of the "t" so that the full pressure of the water goes only into the heater core.

Also, you should only be filling your system via the overflow tank as this is a closed loop cooling system.

HTH -

 

[budwich]

You might try eliminating the heater control water valve from the system by going with "thru connection" fittings like those shown in previous posts. See what happens thereafter in terms of symptoms. Yes, you said the valve was replaced.... but that isn't really "testing" the system's "intended operation / function". Remember to "cap" the vacuum line ... hint hint ;-)

Further, you might also want to get a cooling system pressure test done.

Lastly, you might want to get a "live data reading" from the ODB port on your engine temp as opposed to your gage readings to confirm your "engine temp" readings.

 

[koda2000]

are you getting normal heat from your heater? if so are you saying your gauge works wierdly? i don't know about the thumping noise (sounds like trapped air in the system), but i didn't see where you say you replaced the temp sender.

 

[ExplorerProbs]

Ya.... If u still cant find out what the prob is its most likely the the temp sender.

 

[Deathwish657]

Well, Technically i did 'Replace' the temp sender once, but i didn't include it for the fact i got it second hand. I normally don't count second hand electrical parts like that as really replacing..

I'm gonna see about replacing that this payday, also flushing the heater core out as well.

 

[ExplorerProbs]

i would count that as kinda replacing it, if it did nothing i wouldn't bother tbh.... everything on my truck is second hand and it runs like a top haha

 

[Deathwish657]

True enough. Looking at the post about the Harmonic balancer, i do belive that might be the cause, Watching the belt as it's running, it does make the Tensioner jump about a lot, it does it more when its in gear at idle.

 

[Doug5529]

These engines have the common double issues of wandering temperature gauges and knocking noises from the heater core. Some of us have been chasing them for a long time, and apparently it is caused by the same thing.

There was at least one redesigned water pump that was supposed to solve the issue of the wandering temperature gauge. This is TSB 97-18-9 ,,, for 1994-97 Aerostar, Explorer, Ranger.

The apparent issue was that steam bubbles would form inside the block and collect in the upper inside of the thermostat housing, causing erratic temperature gauge readings--since that is where the gauge sensor is located (on top of the thermostat housing).

I don't know if this water pump is still available. I didn't own the vehicle then so I don't know if mine has it installed or not. The temp gauge in mine certainly wanders up and down.

-------------------

For getting rid of the heater thumping, they used to sell a coolant by-pass kit. This was described in TSB 99-7-2, for Ford light truck, 4.0L OHV engine, 1995-99.

THIS problem was caused by steam bubbles getting sucked into the heater core and then cooling/collapsing, when they'd make a thumping noise.

(I have photocopies of these TSBs, but the shop got them from a trade service [not free to look]. Is there anywhere free to do that? The TSB above has no diagram, but the one for the coolant by-pass kit does, so I will post that below)

[pic below, for as long as it lasts...]

[SAVE the pic above if you care! it may disappear at any time]


This coolant by-pass kit has not been available new from Ford since sometime in 1998; requests for it as far back as early-1999 were only indicated as "unavailable". ...The upshot is, installing the coolant by-pass kit often also solved the wandering temperature gauge problem too.

My repair shop called around last year to see if any of these kits were still available. The local dealer had a listed price of $194.57 (not a typo,,,, two hundred bucks for some hose and a couple T-fittings) but had none on hand and couldn't order any more. They did locate one dealer in Wisconsin (I am in the St Louis area) who had ONE left. I didn't buy it, because I just figured I'd make the same thing myself if I got to needing it.



....Which now I am.....



I am now making this kit for my 96 Explorer, because it is the only thing a lot of people haven't tried for this issue, since it is no longer available from Ford. It won't be exactly like they did; I have a venturi in the big T-fitting and I dunno if theirs had that or not? The venturi goes from 1-3/8" to 7/8" and back out, and should suck water through the bypass line any time the coolant is moving at all. ...Also I may not use a small t-fitting on the thermostat housing, since there's not a lot of room there. I think I may just put a nipple there, and run a short piece of hose up above the mess and put a T-fitting on top of that.

Does anyone happen to know if the threads in the engine block are all metric? I haven't pulled the temp sensor to see myself yet, but judging from the nipple that only went in a little ways,,,,,it looks like about a 16 x 1.5mm thread... Is there thread seal used, or smooth lips at the bottom?

----------------------

Another common issue is the leaking radiators, and the reason for that is that (apparently) they are all designed like crap, and there's nothing that can be done except to just accept that they will fail regularly and keep buying new ones, or get an aluminum one made. I'm in the process of doing that too (making aluminum tanks myself) but instead of welding the tanks to the core, they will clamp on so the core can be replaced or the whole thing opened if there's any other reason to do so.

 

[Deathwish657]

There ain't no other way to do that without gutting the cooling system out, modifying it? I've never ran into any of this problem with any Toyota's, or Chevy's.. only Ford.. It's odd. Even the Certified mechanics can't figure it out.. That's sad! I'm thinking about switching the Thermostat out with a different one, one without the nipple, see if that does any good. If not, i'll reuse the old since it was replaced not long ago... and just put the nipple on the bottom instead, see if theres any change.. This is a frustrating problem, irritating.. It's preventing us from doing any long distance traveling

 

[Doug5529]

There ain't no other way to do that without gutting the cooling system out, modifying it?

This is a frustrating problem, irritating.. It's preventing us from doing any long distance traveling

The vehicle works, as long as everything else is okay go and do whatever you would. The temperature gauge wandering and the heater thumping doesn't cause any damage themselves.

The failure-prone radiators wouldn't be such a problem if the temperature gauge worked properly,,,,, and the temperature gauge wandering wouldn't be an issue if the radiators didn't fail so often.

If the radiator leaks then you lose water, and the engine temperature starts to rise, but you don't notice it since the gauge goes up and down all the time anyway. You have to ALWAYS pay attention to the coolant level, check it often looking for any sudden loss, look for any coolant puddles under the radiator (especially the drivers-side tank) and check for any coolant smell from the hot engine.

 

[taburch]

with my discovery had a similar problem did you replace the fan clutch and the land rover had two electric fan in front of radiator that needed replacing

 

[Deathwish657]

I had replaced the fan clutch not long ago. I'm wondering if the Thermostat with no nipple would make a difference..

 

[Deathwish657]

Anyone figure anything out on this thing?? Harmonic balancer ain't the problem.. I'm running out of ideas... its kind of annoying.. only happens when Heater / A/C is on... It also ain't the blend door since that still functions the way it was intended..

 

[Deathwish657]

Concluding the fun of this all, i do belive i figured it out.. Had a warped serpintine belt, plenty of air in the system as well. Balancer was fine, all components are perfectly fine..

<-- I was wrong with this all, but never did figure it out yet. Have another bad radiator, once again... Damn Advance Auto...

 

[Deathwish657]

Well, i really do not know why i got this flucating problem, it is rather annoying. I'm still trying to figure it out, all that stuff but not having much luck. no one has this problem when i explain it to them..

Temp goes above half, drops, once in awhile it'll do a thumping noise..

Replaced Radiator 4 times now.. (Last time, hopefully from Autozone)
Water pump been replaced like 4 times as well. Same with the thermostat, radiator cap..

All hoses / Heater hoses been replaced.

 

[MuNkY6913]

Well, i really do not know why i got this flucating problem, it is rather annoying. I'm still trying to figure it out, all that stuff but not having much luck. no one has this problem when i explain it to them..

Temp goes above half, drops, once in awhile it'll do a thumping noise..

Replaced Radiator 4 times now.. (Last time, hopefully from Autozone)
Water pump been replaced like 4 times as well. Same with the thermostat, radiator cap..

All hoses / Heater hoses been replaced.

anyone ever get this sorted? I recently replaced my lower intake manifold because it was leaking coolant everywhere. pretty sure it ran dry. had to keep adding coolant to it after i fixed it. now theres no more leaks but this morning i left it warm up for about 20mins and the heater was blowing hot air but when i stopped at work i felt what i thought was a misfire. i thought o great. now i've done it. so i popped the hood with it still running and saww with each thump one of the hoses going into the heater core would move. then i grabbed the top radiator hose and i could feel the thump in that too. i turned the heater off and it didn't make a difference. i turned the car off and it still made the niose! i could hear it thumping as i walked away. anyone get this yet?

 

[Justme63]

anyone ever get this sorted? I recently replaced my lower intake manifold because it was leaking coolant everywhere. pretty sure it ran dry. had to keep adding coolant to it after i fixed it. now theres no more leaks but this morning i left it warm up for about 20mins and the heater was blowing hot air but when i stopped at work i felt what i thought was a misfire. i thought o great. now i've done it. so i popped the hood with it still running and saww with each thump one of the hoses going into the heater core would move. then i grabbed the top radiator hose and i could feel the thump in that too. i turned the heater off and it didn't make a difference. i turned the car off and it still made the niose! i could hear it thumping as i walked away. anyone get this yet?

I get it quite frequently but i also had a bad seal on my water pump. I have repaired that and I think in might be a combination of air in the system and a bad thermostat. My thumping can get quite loud at times but it seems to be less and less. I am going to attempt to bleed my cooling system this weekend.